Plane carrying Emeliano Sala (new Cardiff signing from Nantes) gone missing

Ardent

Paully D wrote: »

This thread about the disaster, from a professional pilots forum, is eye-opening:

https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/617514-cardiff-city-footballer-feared-missing-after-aircraft-disappeared-near-channel-island.html

Fascinating discussion there.

I don't see how McKay can get away without being sued for everything he has. Probably furiously transferring assets to his wife and sons as we speak.

Sending that poor young fella on a 35 year old single-engined pile of junk across the channel at night in wintery icy conditions piloted by a part time plumber. Christ almighty.

Ardent

Ardent wrote: »

Fascinating discussion there.

I don't see how McKay can get away without being sued for everything he has. Probably furiously transferring assets to his wife and sons as we speak.

Sending that poor young fella on a 35 year old single-engined pile of junk across the channel at night in wintery icy conditions piloted by a part time plumber. Christ almighty.

Because he’s not his employer (so it’s not an act in the course of employment) and is not an expert on pilot ability?

If I say to someone “you want a lift to work? Johnny will be passing and will give you a spin” and Johnny turns out to be a bad driver and the brakes are faulty, not sure an accident is my fault.

It seems far from an open and shut case to me.

~Rebel~

Deleted User wrote: »

Because he’s not his employer (so it’s not an act in the course of employment) and is not an expert on pilot ability?

If I say to someone “you want a lift to work? Johnny will be passing and will give you a spin” and Johnny turns out to be a bad driver and the brakes are faulty, not sure an accident is my fault.

It seems far from an open and shut case to me.

It also sounds like McKay hired a pilot (David Henderson) he's used plenty before, and then that pilot passed it onto the guy who actually flew the plane.

"In regards to the booking of the flight, we contacted David Henderson who has flown us and many of our players all over Europe on countless occasions," said McKay in a statement.

"We had no involvement in selecting a plane or a pilot and wish to make clear we do not own the plane that Emiliano flew on.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/emiliano-sala-search-missing-nantes-cardiff-flight-disaster-tragedy-willie-mckay-a8748481.html

Ardent

~Rebel~ wrote: »

It also sounds like McKay hired a pilot (David Henderson) he's used plenty before, and then that pilot passed it onto the guy who actually flew the plane.


https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/emiliano-sala-search-missing-nantes-cardiff-flight-disaster-tragedy-willie-mckay-a8748481.html

And apparently Henderson's ID was used in Nantes airport yet he claims he hasn't been there in a year. Interesting developments yet to come in all of this...

thebaz

I've hammered Neil Warnock , but his press conference today was class - well done Neil, we all are human , have good and bad qualities.

Tom Mann Centuria

thebaz wrote: »

I've hammered Neil Warnock , but his press conference today was class - well done Neil, we all are human , have good and bad qualities.

He handled it very well. Here's the clips from it if people haven't seen it.

https://twitter.com/BBCWalesNews/status/1089918334412427265?s=20

KaiserGunner

It has been reported that the plane has finally been found.

https://twitter.com/skysportsnews/status/1092167968530857992?s=21

Ardent

Was just saying to myself earlier today: they'll never find that plane.

New evidence seems to suggest that the pilot believed he would be flying back during daylight hours - but apparently the plan all along between player and agent was that he would be returning at night. The pilot was not qualified to fly at night.

Liability for this clusterf*ck rests somewhere between the McKays and Dave Henderson, the pilot they outsourced the job to. I hope they both get cleaned out by Cardiff City.

Degag

Ardent wrote: »

I hope they both get cleaned out by Cardiff City.

Get cleaned out?



Money should have nothing to do with this.

Ardent

Degag wrote: »

Get cleaned out?



Money should have nothing to do with this.

Money is the reason this happened in the first place. Before Sala signed on the dotted line the McKays were flying him back and forth on a twin engine top-of-the-line private jet. After he signed, they flew him on a single piston engine piece of sh$t aircraft piloted by a part time gas engineer.

Never underestimate the power of greed. The only way you can truly hurt some people is financially.

Carcharodon

Ardent wrote: »

Money is the reason this happened in the first place. Before Sala signed on the dotted line the McKays were flying him back and forth on a twin engine top-of-the-line private jet. After he signed, they flew him on a single piston engine piece of sh$t aircraft piloted by a part time gas engineer.

Never underestimate the power of greed. The only way you can truly hurt some people is financially.

This is absolutely hilarious yet disturbing, quick question, apart from being an internet warrior, what exactly is your expertise on this situation

Ardent

Carcharodon wrote: »

This is absolutely hilarious yet disturbing, quick question, apart from being an internet warrior, what exactly is your expertise on this situation

Follow the link to the pilot website posted earlier in this thread, you'll find all you need to know. Apart from being an internet troll, what exactly is your problem?

5star02707

BBC Breaking News
(@BBCBreaking)
Body seen in wreckage of plane carrying missing footballer Emiliano Sala, Air Accidents Investigation Branch says

https://bbc.in/2DQGdOz

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/1093171075880501253

"Nantes have demanded payment from Cardiff City over the £15m transfer of Emiliano Sala"

BBC.

Harry Palmr

I did wonder if Cardiff were liable to pay over, I'd assumed the transfer had been completed.

FourFourRED

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I did wonder if Cardiff were liable to pay over, I'd assumed the transfer had been completed.

It had been completed for sure before he flew back to France.

They are withholding the first payment according to that article.

Father Hernandez

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/1093171075880501253

"Nantes have demanded payment from Cardiff City over the £15m transfer of Emiliano Sala"

BBC.

Well within their rights to ask for the money, the accident wouldn't of happened without Cardiff's interest.

I wonder if FIFA would interject in the sake of both parties.

JPA

Surely it's an insurance payout?

artanevilla

Cardiff will pay Nantes then reclaim on their insurance. It's a bit of a dramatic headline.

Tomw86

artanevilla wrote: »

Cardiff will pay Nantes then reclaim on their insurance. It's a bit of a dramatic headline.

Exactly, Cardiff will not be out of pocket.

I wonder will an insurer withhold payment until a body is found tho, and perhaps Nantes are looking for the money now.....

ShamoBuc

They've recovered a body apparently. Good news.

Ardent

Ardent wrote: »

Liability for this clusterf*ck rests somewhere between the McKays and Dave Henderson, the pilot they outsourced the job to. I hope they both get cleaned out by Cardiff City.

You seem desperate to assign liability.

First of all, the thread you quote as the be all and end all, at least one of the experts seems unable to spell ascend or descend. I'd take their pilot credentials with a pinch of salt, it's like saying everyone on this anonymous football forum is a football expert. It could be someone's cat on a keyboard.

And secondly, even if they are all air crash disaster experts, I'd need a cause of accident and then an analysis, not so much by people who know something about flying, but people who know something about the law. Could you quote one case or reason why McKay might be liable? How is an agent liable for the acts of their principal? Liability for car accidents are not determined solely by guesses about the expertise of the driver, it may be wholly irrelevant.

Let's give the salivating about suing the agent a rest for a while. Of course it's possible, but the idea that we now know liability rests between him and the deceased pilot is simply wrong.

Stephen15

Confirmed the body recovered is Sala RIP

Cookiemunster

It's been confirmed that the body recovered was Sala.

https://twitter.com/dorsetpolice/status/1093640230173900801

Stephen15

https://twitter.com/PA/status/1093641733135568896?s=19

rob316

That's about the best you could of hoped finding the body. Closure for the family atleast

Cookiemunster

rob316 wrote: »

That's about the best you could of hoped finding the body. Closure for the family atleast

Unfortunately the same can't be said for the pilots family.

JP Liz V1

Stephen15 wrote: »

Confirmed the body recovered is Sala RIP

RIP Sala

Hopefully the second body of the pilot will also be found soon

Mr.Nice Guy

I hope the pilot's body can also be recovered. Thoughts are with both of the families right now.

RIP Emiliano Sala.

Oat23

Crash landing in the sea in the dark and drowning. Absolutely awful way to go. RIP.

Ardent

It's awful but not surprising that the wrangling over money has begun, even before the poor fella's body was found. I think we'll see a lot if twists and turns there - it seems Nantes hired the McKays, so Cardiff could ultimately withhold payment.

vicwatson

Ardent wrote: »

It's awful but not surprising that the wrangling over money has begun, even before the poor fella's body was found. I think we'll see a lot if twists and turns there - it seems Nantes hired the McKays, so Cardiff could ultimately withhold payment.

Or donate it to his family with mutual agreement?

rob316

Cardiff should have to pay it, he was signed,he was there player. £15m is huge money to a club like nantes and they would have already spent this money.

FourFourRED

100% Cardiff should pay the money they owe to Nantes. First instalment is £5m, I understand.

Horrible situation for all involved but they are a business and need paying.

You can’t expect Nantes to just write it off.

Cardiff can then resolve with their insurance afterward I presume?

Degag

FourFourFM wrote: »

100% Cardiff should pay the money they owe to Nantes. First instalment is £5m, I understand.

Horrible situation for all involved but they are a business and need paying.

You can’t expect Nantes to just write it off.

Cardiff can then resolve with their insurance afterward I presume?

100% they owe it but i think it was a small bit inconsiderate of Nantes to go demanding the first installment and threatening legal action when the body was not yet even found.


Yes it is business but a bit of tact and consideration wouldn't have gone astray i thought.


Also hope that it was a case of funds running out as being the reason for not continuing to find the pilot's body. His family need closure as much as Sala's.

Paully D

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-6718009/The-time-Cardiff-care-money-Emiliano-Sala-died.html

This is a superb piece.

ELM327

FourFourFM wrote: »

100% Cardiff should pay the money they owe to Nantes. First instalment is £5m, I understand.

Horrible situation for all involved but they are a business and need paying.

You can’t expect Nantes to just write it off.

Cardiff can then resolve with their insurance afterward I presume?

Even if Nantes arranged the flights?


If you pay for a commodity (like it or not, player services are a commodity) and it does not arrive, you should not be paying.

CSF

ELM327 wrote: »

Even if Nantes arranged the flights?


If you pay for a commodity (like it or not, player services are a commodity) and it does not arrive, you should not be paying.

He had already arrived and signed. He went back having signed to look after some personal affairs.

Ardent

The issue isn't whether or not he had signed by the time the plane went down. It's a case of whether or not Nantes were involved in the fatal transfer of the player. Nantes hired the McKays so you could argue yes.

Ardent

Ardent wrote: »

The issue isn't whether or not he had signed by the time the plane went down. It's a case of whether or not Nantes were involved in the fatal transfer of the player. Nantes hired the McKays so you could argue yes.

Has every single post you have contributed on the topic so far involved dancing a jig across Sala's grave on your way to having a go at the McKays.

I get that they're agents and have been involved in some eyebrow raising deals. But can we all not at least wait for findings before we rush to "the law of negligence doesn't matter, the McKays were involved so it's their fault" and "contact law doesn't matter, the McKays were involved so they've broken it"

Ardent

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Has every single post you have contributed on the topic so far involved dancing a jig across Sala's grave on your way to having a go at the McKays.

I get that they're agents and have been involved in some eyebrow raising deals. But can we all not at least wait for findings before we rush to "the law of negligence doesn't matter, the McKays were involved so it's their fault" and "contact law doesn't matter, the McKays were involved so they've broken it"

Just making casual observations my friend. No need to get so upset lol.

Ardent

Ardent wrote: »

Just making casual observations my friend. No need to get so upset lol.

Every single post is not casual observaion..

The phrase you are looking for is weird fixation. And I'm not he first to point that out.

Paully D

The interim report has been released:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiU5O3dpNfgAhXToXEKHfpSBaMQzPwBegQIARAD&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Ffootball%2F2019%2Ffeb%2F25%2Femiliano-sala-plane-fell-thousands-of-feet-in-seconds-investigators-say&psig=AOvVaw1QUiYUq0DM87cG9AAQj-7m&ust=1551197929664752

Poor guy, tough read

Paully D

Looks like the net is closing on McKay:

https://twitter.com/telefootball/status/1100479099934519300?s=21

Paully D

Keep squirming, Willie:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/47406109

Ugh. He and his son are absolutely horrid.

Unfortunately, he probably knows too many things about too many people in the game to face any sort of real consequence.

gimli2112

I saw that interview on BBC.

"When you phone for a taxi you don't ask him if he has a driving licence,"

Eh? You do if the taxi travels at 6000 feet, in fact it's the first thing you ask. Right after he said that he said it was sickening people are trying to blame the pilot (alluding to Cardiff, I guess) which is exactly what he had just done.

Paully D

This link shows messages from Cardiff’s PLO to Sala, outlining details of a commercial flight option.

Once again, Willie McKay proven to be lying:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/leaked-messages-between-emiliano-sala-15904720

gimli2112

https://uk.yahoo.com/sports/news/police-investigate-willie-mckay-amid-223000499.html


Thought it was odd himself and the son coming out in the media all guns blazing, surely better to keep quiet. Threatening to kill everybody at Cardiff (allegedly) is clearly an escalation.

sideswipe

Sad to hear Sala's father has passed away from heart problems. Terribly tragic few months for the whole family. Rip.