Kitchen & Notifiable work

tro90

Hi,

Just hoping to get some information with regards whats notifiable or needs to be certified with regards to wiring a kitchen.

Currently renovating a house and had one of my friends, who is an electrician but not RECI, install a few new spotlights from an existing light and also add some new sockets to rooms from existing sockets.

We're going to do the kitchen in the next few days. We are going to install the oven and the hob off an existing isolation switch and install new plugs, from existing plugs for the appliances such as fridge, extractor and washing machine. These will also have isolating switches.

We need to move the existing isolating switch on the wall a bit to fit in the new kitchen unit.

Is any of this work notifiable or need to be certified? I'm under the impression it doesn't as we are working off things already installed previously?

Any clarification at all would be great.

2011

This goes beyond the scope of minor electrical works as such should be carried out by a Registered Electrical Contractor.

tro90

2011 wrote: »

This goes beyond the scope of minor electrical works as such should be carried out by a Registered Electrical Contractor.

Thanks for the reply!

Would that include the stuff we already have done? Spots off an existing light and the extra plugs?

meercat

tro90 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply!

Would that include the stuff we already have done? Spots off an existing light and the extra plugs?

Yes. If new cables are installed then they should be up to current regulations and protected and tested accordingly
To clarify. I think your existing work is outside the scope of minor works.

2011

tro90 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply!

Would that include the stuff we already have done? Spots off an existing light and the extra plugs?

Do a bit of Googling on “minor electrical works”. This will tell you that someone other than a REC can add another point to an existing circuit. By the sound of it you have added multiple points to existing circuits. If the work is done properly by someone that knows what they are doing and it is properly tested I wouldn’t be concerned. This is on the basis that I know what to check so as to ensure that the work is done correctly. However to answer your question, this would not be legal.

Risteard81

Although the examples of minor works include adding a point to an existing circuit I cannot actually see anything in law which stipulates that multiple points to existing circuits is anything other than minor works from a legal perspective. (That does not mean that I wouldn't recommend getting a REC to do it - I absolutely would.)

But I am not convinced that there is a basis in law for suggesting that the works described were necessarily Restricted Electrical Works.

2011

Risteard81 wrote: »

Although the examples of minor works include adding a point to an existing circuit I cannot actually see anything in law which stipulates that multiple points to existing circuits is anything other than minor works from a legal perspective.

Agreed, but in this case it sounds like it is unlikely that there would be a sufficient number of circuits to accommodate the number of points that the OP plans to install (assuming one additional point per existing circuit).

This statement "install a few new spotlights from an existing light" reads to me that the OP wants to supply multiple lights from an existing single light. Of course I am open to correction from the OP.

Risteard81

2011 wrote: »

This statement "install a few new spotlights from an existing light" reads to me that the OP wants to supply multiple lights from an existing single light. Of course I am open to correction from the OP.

I read it the same way. However I see nothing within the legislation which would make these Restricted Electrical Works as opposed to minor works.

2011

Risteard81 wrote: »

I read it the same way. However I see nothing within the legislation which would make these Restricted Electrical Works as opposed to minor works.

^^ but that is multiple points added to an existing circuit, and minor electrical works only allows one.

tro90

Just to clarify it was a rose pendant changed into spotlights.

Thanks for the advice anyway lads I will get the kitchen done by a registered person just to be sure.

2011

tro90 wrote: »

Just to clarify it was a rose pendant changed into spotlights.

So an existing light replaced with another light that has 3 spotlights on it? If so there is no issue with that.

tro90

2011 wrote: »

So an existing light replaced with another light that has 3 spotlights on it? If so there is no issue with that.

No, sorry. An existing single rose pendant was converted into a number of spots/downlights. and a number of plugs were added from existing plugs.

I'll have the kitchen completed by an RECI. Thanks

2011

tro90 wrote: »

No, sorry. An existing single rose pendant was converted into a number of spots/downlights. and a number of plugs were added from existing plugs.

I'll have the kitchen completed by an RECI. Thanks

You have made the correct call as this is definitely outside the scope of minor electrical works.

Risteard81

2011 wrote: »

^^ but that is multiple points added to an existing circuit, and minor electrical works only allows one.

I'm sorry, but you haven't provided any evidence whatsoever that the Restricted Works legislation stipulates that it applies to changes to existing circuits if more than one point is added. I would suggest that these are clearly minor works in law unless you can provide actual legislation which disproves this.

As I stated earlier an addition of a single point to a radial circuit is given as an example of minor works by the CRU - this is not the same as your suggestion that things other than their examples can legally be construed to be Restricted Electrical Works without meeting the legal definition.

I fully endorse the advice that a REC should be used for the work, but I cannot agree with the claim that it is unlawful for a non-REC to do it without some basis in legislation.

2011

Risteard81 wrote: »

I'm sorry, but you haven't provided any evidence whatsoever that the Restricted Works legislation stipulates that it applies to changes to existing circuits if more than one point is added.

According to document CER/13/147:

Examples of Minor Electrical Works include the following:
* Replacement of an electrical accessory such as light switch;
* Replacement or relocation of a light fitting where the existing circuit is retained;
and
* Provision of an additional socket to an existing radial circuit.

See link

You will notice that the above refers to just one socket, not multiple.
When I contacted CER (as they were at the time) by phone as a follow up to this email they made it very clear to me that when more than one point was added to a circuit it could not longer be considered minor works. The notable exception was when these points were fed from a spur outlet.

If you are correct then there is very little installation work within a domestic installation that is not minor works.

Bruthal

Risteard81 wrote: »

I fully endorse the advice that a REC should be used for the work.

Yes, we would`t want it done substandard now,, would we...

Risteard81

2011 wrote: »

According to document CER/13/147:

Examples of Minor Electrical Works include the following:
* Replacement of an electrical accessory such as light switch;
* Replacement or relocation of a light fitting where the existing circuit is retained;
and
* Provision of an additional socket to an existing radial circuit.

See link

You will notice that the above refers to just one socket, not multiple.
When I contacted CER (as they were at the time) by phone as a follow up to this email they made it very clear to me that when more than one point was added to a circuit it could not longer be considered minor works. The notable exception was when these points were fed from a spur outlet.

If you are correct then there is very little installation work within a domestic installation that is not minor works.

You will notice that this very clearly lists these as examples of minor works (which I had already pointed out). Nowhere does it suggest that they are the only example of minor works, nor does the definition of Restricted Works show that they are.

Surely the definition of Restricted Works is all that can actually be taken to be Restricted Works? I presume that the CRU would concede this point whether they wished to or not.

2011

Risteard81 wrote: »

You will notice that this very clearly lists these as examples of minor works (which I had already pointed out).

Agreed. That is just one of the reasons that I rang them. Don’t take my word for it, ask them yourself.
I believe that RECI also share my view.