Orange/red together before green for go

Crock Rock

Would this system work well in Ireland in your opinions?

I was driving around Newry recently and noticed that's how it works up there, I forgot the UK had that sequence. It is used in some of our European neighbous too. Some do it that way and some do it our way, as in the go straight from red to green.


Would this save time moving off at junctions?

What do you think would you like ot see it here?

Skylinehead

No

Yes.

Also let us turn left on a red.

James Bond Junior

No

Nixonbot wrote: »

Yes.

Also let us turn left on a red.

Having driven in America a few times, it is a great yet simple idea.

Del2005

Crock Rock wrote: »

Would this system work well in Ireland in your opinions?

I was driving around Newry recently and noticed that's how it works up there, I forgot the UK had that sequence. It is used in some of our European neighbous too. Some do it that way and some do it our way, as in the go straight from red to green.


Would this save time moving off at junctions?

What do you think would you like ot see it here?

We need to stop people breaking red lights before we think about changing the sequence. From driving here and in the UK the sequence of the lights is not the problem it's the lack of attention by drivers that causes delays.

I found that UK drivers started to move on amber/green rather than wait for the green which with our endemic ignoring of red would be interesting.

Crock Rock

No

Del2005 wrote: »

We need to stop people breaking red lights before we think about changing the sequence. From driving here and in the UK the sequence of the lights is not the problem it's the lack of attention by drivers that causes delays.

I found that UK drivers started to move on amber/green rather than wait for the green which with our endemic ignoring of red would be interesting.

It's amber-red not amber-green. Sorry. I hope I don't sound like I am nitpicking.


Would automatic cameras work here? Maybe we could couple the cameras to be red light watchers and also check for insurance and tax and NCT. Abolish the need to the disc pouch.

Sam Quentin

I don't think it works,it seems to be a very frustrating system!?
Because as soon as they cross the border they drive like rally drivers ============================

Effects

It works well when driving in the UK.
Too many drivers here don't stop for red lights so it would probably cause a huge amount of accidents.

Melodeon

No

There was a theory back in the day when this was introduced in the UK, that it was to give Land-Rover drivers advance warning to start taking up the slack in the transmission before the light went green.

tossy

Its a great system but would never work here - we don't have the driving maturity/cop on as a nation, we'd all just go on amber.

How do countries that allow in our case a left on red factor in pedestrian crossings? I can think of a few locally where I'd have little to no visibility of the near side crossing around the left turn.

Dravokivich

No. People shouldn't be looking at the lights to launch off the line once its green. We aren't at a drag strip.

colm_mcm

I think we should get rid of amber altogether.

seamus

No. You'd have people slamming it to the floor when the orange appears because they don't understand what the lights mean.

Del2005

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How do countries that allow in our case a left on red factor in pedestrian crossings? I can think of a few locally where I'd have little to no visibility of the near side crossing around the left turn.

The pedestrian has right of way. You are supposed to treat the red as a yield sign and not proceed unless clear, they also don't allow turning on red at junctions if they are dangerous or busy.

colm_mcm

They built their junctions with this in mind though.

blackbox

My experience of the UK is that a lot of people cross the line before the green.

Seth Brundle

The first thing to bring in if we're to do this is proper enforcement of the existing rules.

The red light jumping is endemic here at this stage to a point where you should prepare to be rear ended if you dare stop on orange, I know, stop unless its not safe to do so and its not safe because you've some clown behind you up your arse to get through it expecting you to be of the same mind.

elperello

No

I notice they are using timer displays to let you know how long to green on roadworks lights now.
They are effectively letting drivers know in advance of green showing.
You will notice drivers getting in gear and being ready to move.

Renegade Mechanic

Melodeon wrote: »

There was a theory back in the day when this was introduced in the UK, that it was to give Land-Rover drivers advance warning to start taking up the slack in the transmission before the light went green.

Christ

Renegade Mechanic

The thing where it goes from red to flashing amber is already in place around here at pedestrian crossings, and that's apparently confusing enough, given the people who sit there come lights or loud horns until it goes green..

Peregrinus

Should their be a red-and-amber phase? In a sense, it's a zero-sum game. Traffic signals at an intersection typically have a short "all-red" phase, where light lights in one direction turn red, and a short time then elapses before the lights in the other direction turn green. This is to allow traffic travelling in one direction to clear the junction before traffic from the other direction is signalled to go.

In countries which have a "red-and-amber" phase, this typically is coupled with a slightly longer "all-red" phase, to guard against the risk that drivers will start as soon as red-and-amber is signalled. A significant proportion of drivers do exactly this; in countries with a red-and-amber phase, about a third of the time the first car in line will cross the line before the light actually turns green. You can reduce this by having a shorter red-and-amber phase (the UK has two seconds, but some countries only have 1 second) or you can manage the associated risk by extending the all-red phase.

EdgeCase

One of the problems in Dublin (certainly more than Cork) is junctions that trap people / lack of filter lights.

There are some unbelievably badly designed light sequences.

For example : right turn into the Mater hospital from Druncondra direction and from Eccles Street right into Dorset Street. One of the largest hospitals in the country and there's no fly lights at all. You just have to force your way across.

And loads of sequences like this:

Cork (usually)
Green
Red + Right filter (many more junctions have amber flashing filter to allow turn) - allows cars to comfortably clear junction.
Full red (with pedestrian crossing green).

Dublin (frequently)
Green
Green + Green Filter.
Full red (cars stuck in middle of junction - no escape)

Also in Cork, a confusing one where the lights behave as if there's a right filter, holding the oncoming traffic but they don't have one. The result of that is people become used to full green = I can turn right and also cars hesitating to turn right when the traffic is actually held.

Loads of Irish junctions need to be reviewed.

Also and it's more a feature of the Dublin control system than Cork, you get the odd INSANELY short green sequence and it's causing light breaking and aggressive behaviour as the lights will only let about one or two cars through.

I'm not sure if that's just difference in behaviour beheen SCATS (Dublin control system) and Siemens UTC SCOOT in Cork or just how they're programming it, but Cork system seems to not produce those ultra short green phases

They need to be minimum timings on green (unless no traffic is sensed by the system). The amber phase also needs to hold amber for slightly longer.

I just don't think there's good and consistent design of signal systems here.

machiavellianme

No

colm_mcm wrote: »

I think we should get rid of amber altogether.

I completely agree. It's too much uncertainty. Is it a long or short sequence?
I'd prefer a countdown timer (like the one for pedestrians) to the next change.
it could display on the green to red transition so you'd be able to evaluate if it is safe to continue or preferably stop before the change as well as on the red to green transition to inform dawdlers and avoid a 15 second hold up as the first three cars clamber to get moving.
1 or 2 seconds headroom could be built in if required between the actual transition (ie all red).

Del2005

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

The thing where it goes from red to flashing amber is already in place around here at pedestrian crossings, and that's apparently confusing enough, given the people who sit there come lights or loud horns until it goes green..

You aren’t supposed to move till you have a green light. Flashing amber has no status, full amber is prepare to stop, so it shouldn't be used.

Melodeon

No

It'd be a nice addition to the motoring landscape here, but there's no doubt some people will regard it like this, unfortunately :

robtri

feck off you West Brit...
we dont want that English stuff here :D:D

but seriously...
no... seen too many near misses and accidents, people late running the red light and another car going on the amber green ....

like our lights arent complicated... its not rocket science

bazz26

I'm just back from the US also and the turn right on red is very good. However you need to be on the ball for pedestrians crossing after the turn as they have right of way over traffic. I could see it being a disaster here.

The 4 way stop sign junctions are some craic too.

Renegade Mechanic

Del2005 wrote: »

You aren’t supposed to move till you have a green light. Flashing amber has no status, full amber is prepare to stop, so it shouldn't be used.

Sequence is as follows:
Pedestrian presses button.
Green light goes amber; Prepare to stop.
You stop as the light goes red.
While it's red, people cross.
Then the red light dissappears and the amber light starts flashing, which I take to mean "proceed with caution/don't go anywhere if someone is still crossing.
Then the light goes green.
9 times out of 10 everyone's cleared the road when the amber starts flashing and we" proceed cautiously".

That or there's about four hundred penalty points on their way

grogi

No

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How do countries that allow in our case a left on red factor in pedestrian crossings? I can think of a few locally where I'd have little to no visibility of the near side crossing around the left turn.

Then you don't turn. No visibility, no turning. Simple

grogi

No

Del2005 wrote: »

You aren’t supposed to move till you have a green light. Flashing amber has no status, full amber is prepare to stop, so it shouldn't be used.

Flashing amber means 'proceed with caution'

bazz26

Going by some of the UK dashcam videos on youtube, amber means have launch control ready to go.

dodzy

To echo the sentiments of others, we as a nation are an embarrassment, either stopped at, or approaching traffic lights. (We are equally sh1t on the motorways by the way)

Any change, no matter how successful in other parts of the world, would be carnage here. I live in Dublin West. Some of the worst drivers in the land reside here. Of that I have no doubt.

grogi

No

dodzy wrote: »

To echo the sentiments of others, we as a nation are an embarrassment, either stopped at, or approaching traffic lights. (We are equally sh1t on the motorways by the way)

Any change, no matter how successful in other parts of the world, would be carnage here. I live in Dublin West. Some of the worst drivers in the land reside here. Of that I have no doubt.

Nonsense. As a nation, the Irish are frightened to death of any change. But they do cope just fine.

Del2005

grogi wrote: »

Flashing amber means 'proceed with caution'

Where? Green is proceed with caution in this country. Amber is do not pass


http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1964/si/294/made/en/print

the_syco

No

Nixonbot wrote: »

Also let us turn left on a red.

This works so well in Toronto! It also gets rid of so much traffic.

Deleted User wrote: »

How do countries that allow in our case a left on red factor in pedestrian crossings? I can think of a few locally where I'd have little to no visibility of the near side crossing around the left turn.

Peds have right of way, but there are signs that say "stop on red" which means no right turn on red. Points & instant fine if caught doing so.

Victor

No

Deleted User wrote: »

How do countries that allow in our case a left on red factor in pedestrian crossings? I can think of a few locally where I'd have little to no visibility of the near side crossing around the left turn.

The drivers are meant to yield to the pedestrians, but in reality, many do a 'rolling stop'. Combined with inattentive driving, pedestrians are killed.

seamus wrote: »

No. You'd have people slamming it to the floor when the orange appears because they don't understand what the lights mean.

Which is correct. Sorry, do you mean braking or accelerating?

Wishbone Ash

EdgeCase wrote: »

One of the problems in Dublin (certainly more than Cork) is junctions that trap people / lack of filter lights....

...For example : right turn into the Mater hospital from Druncondra....

Eh, there is no right turn permitted there and it has a sign to that effect. That explains the lack of a filter light and why you are getting 'trapped'.

If you need to get to the Mater, take the next right into Synnott Place (opposite The Auld Triangle pub) and do a loop around to get back onto the NCR.

Voodoomelon

No

There's a red light for left at the biggest junction in Dundalk outside Xerox and weekly I see people going straight through it. This is a junction which you regularly see people travelling through at 80-100kph. Bugs the hell out of me.

grogi

No

Del2005 wrote: »

Where? Green is proceed with caution in this country. Amber is do not pass


http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1964/si/294/made/en/print

Solid amber is stop. Flashing amber is go.

Del2005

grogi wrote: »

Solid amber is stop. Flashing amber is go.

Where in the Statute or Rules of the road does it say that? The ROTR says that flashing orange means that peds have priority so if approaching you have to stop for flashing orange, same as a flashing amber arrow is a yield. The Statute says stop on amber. Neither say go on Amber.

Pataman

No

Del2005 wrote: »

Where in the Statute or Rules of the road does it say that? The ROTR says that flashing orange means that peds have priority so if approaching you have to stop for flashing orange, same as a flashing amber arrow is a yield. The Statute says stop on amber. Neither say go on Amber.

What about a pelican crossing?

Are you saying that when a pedestrian light changes from red to flashing orange, you just sit there if the crossing is clear?

Crock Rock

No

Green means proceed with caution (ie, don't just plough through any obstacle which happens to be there).

Orange means stop if safe to do so (ie, jamming on won't cause an accident).

Red (well, you should be already stopped when you approac a red, fairly self-explanatory).

Flashing orange is usually and those "curved junctions" at cross roads (I don't know the name of them) and pedestrian crossings. Flashing amber means you may go if there are no pedestrians left on the crossing.

grogi

No

Crock Rock wrote: »

Flashing orange is usually and those "curved junctions" at cross roads (I don't know the name of them) and pedestrian crossings. Flashing amber means you may go if there are no pedestrians left on the crossing.

Or at traffic lights that are out of order.

lawred2

Crock Rock wrote: »

Would this system work well in Ireland in your opinions?

I was driving around Newry recently and noticed that's how it works up there, I forgot the UK had that sequence. It is used in some of our European neighbous too. Some do it that way and some do it our way, as in the go straight from red to green.


Would this save time moving off at junctions?

What do you think would you like ot see it here?

I don't think it makes much difference to be honest

Crock Rock

No

grogi wrote: »

Or at traffic lights that are out of order.

Are out of order traffic lights not just dim completely (ie, no lighting at all)?

elperello

No

Crock Rock wrote: »

Are out of order traffic lights not just dim completely (ie, no lighting at all)?

Not always.
You can have lights stuck on red or green.
The only options are 1- proceed with extreme caution,2- turn around and find another route to your destination or 3- wait for Gardai to direct traffic.

Del2005

Pataman wrote: »

What about a pelican crossing?

Are you saying that when a pedestrian light changes from red to flashing orange, you just sit there if the crossing is clear?

A pelican crossing is covered by legislation.

Of course not. But I know that it's not legal, just like I might occasionally exceed a posted speed limit.

milhous

Voodoomelon wrote: »

There's a red light for left at the biggest junction in Dundalk outside Xerox and weekly I see people going straight through it. This is a junction which you regularly see people travelling through at 80-100kph. Bugs the hell out of me.

Tbf it should be a filter light. Limit is 60kmph (I don't think it reduces to 50?) and you'd actively have to cross lanes to crash.

Pythagorean

No

I vote YES to this proposal, because far too often I see drivers taking ages to get off the line when the lights turn green. It's exasperating when you miss the green because the driver 3 cars ahead has taken 5 seconds to respond. As previously mentioned, some lights are only green for maybe 10 seconds, which further adds to the joys of driving. In the USA they allow "right on red", unless a sign says " no right on red", also late at night, instead of the normal traffic light sequence, they often have a flashing amber for all signals. This works very well when the traffic is light, and saves the inordinate waits at traffic lights here late at night.

elperello

No

Pythagorean wrote: »

I vote YES to this proposal, because far too often I see drivers taking ages to get off the line when the lights turn green. It's exasperating when you miss the green because the driver 3 cars ahead has taken 5 seconds to respond. As previously mentioned, some lights are only green for maybe 10 seconds, which further adds to the joys of driving. In the USA they allow "right on red", unless a sign says " no right on red", also late at night, instead of the normal traffic light sequence, they often have a flashing amber for all signals. This works very well when the traffic is light, and saves the inordinate waits at traffic lights here late at night.

Yes we can!!
There is no reason why Irish drivers could not adapt to amber/green signals.