Another American backed coup happening in Venezuela

Subcomandante Marcos

Eric Cartman wrote: »

less than 10% of americans are on the poverty line, atleast 30 of the 36 million in venezuela are starving / malnourished. Now Im not advocating for the american system , but by metrics of starving people its certainly clear which country is better.

Because of illegal American sanctions on Venezuelan industries and business which were implemented to force regime change through economic seige under the guise of "national security threats".

The US have been trying to **** over Venezuela and every other left leaning Latin American country since the end of world war 2.

If you're not a right wing military dictator willing to let US companies have free access to your country's resources, you're the devil and must be destroyed. The yanks love a good military dictatorship.

Manic Moran

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Because of illegal American sanctions on Venezuelan industries and business which were implemented to force regime change through economic seige under the guise of "national security threats".

The US have been trying to **** over Venezuela and every other left leaning Latin American country since the end of world war 2.

If you're not a right wing military dictator willing to let US companies have free access to your country's resources, you're the devil and must be destroyed. The yanks love a good military dictatorship.

Then why isn’t every other left-leaning Latin American country falling apart like Venezuela is? Face it, Chavez and Maduro ballsed up by the numbers.

Subcomandante Marcos

markodaly wrote: »

As already mentioned, the US is one country. They were free to trade with other countries. Also Sanctions came in under the Obama presidency a few years ago.
.

US sanctions are applied to all US based companies financial institutions,and all companies and financial institutions who do business in the US or with US companies or financial institutions.

So if the US impose sanctions, it's nearly impossible to just "deal with another country".

Trade isn't done government to government, it's done company to company and institution to institution.

Your grasp of this is ridiculous.

Subcomandante Marcos

Manic Moran wrote: »

Then why isn’t every other left-leaning Latin American country falling apart like Venezuela is? Face it, Chavez and Maduro ballsed up by the numbers.

Why did the US use "national security threats" based on the drug trade as a justification to enact punative sanctions in Venezuela?
Why doesn't the US impose the same sanctions on Colombia or Ecuador or Peru seeing as that's there the drugs actually come from?

What's the difference between the three. In one the government changed the royalty fees for petrochemical companies, in the other three they cowtow to US policies and even allow the US to build military bases on their land (several in Colombia, a naval research base in Peru and a new naval base planned bear Lima, the Ecuadorian government thankfully evicted the US from Manta in 2009).

Why is it that the US didn't sanction Mubarak's Egypt instead of giving them the second highest amount of foreign aid behind Israel?

Pinochet? Great guy, let's give him aid and the assistance of intelligence services.

Evo and Hugo? These guys are using the government to change the tax rate American companies pay on the products they didn't pay for in the first place, they have to go!

SlowBlowin

If nothing else the situation in Venezuela highlights the hypocrisy for the US stance on external states trying to influence elections. 2 years ago it was shock and horror that Russia influenced the US elections, now its OK for us to do it ..

AngryHippie

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Why did the US use "national security threats" based on the drug trade as a justification to enact punative sanctions in Venezuela?
Why doesn't the US impose the same sanctions on Colombia or Ecuador or Peru seeing as that's there the drugs actually come from?

It could be implied that it's a numbers game.
Columbia, Ecuador and even Peru all accept aid and in return purchase lots of lovely American tanks, planes, guns, bombs, missiles and bullets.

Venezuela on the other hand.....

I'm not saying that its the full picture, but considering the military industrial complex is worth 10% of the US Economy, and is entirely in government control, it is a significant indicator of their "care" factor about a region.
(Compared to 8% for oil)
80% of the US Economy being Services based, there is little to no interest for them in the region beyond trying to shank cheap oil out of them and sell them weapons to ensure the citizenry don't get uppity about the theft of their natural resources.
The picture has been largely the same since forever, with the crucial difference being the South Americans were under the impression that the US might actually give two $hits under it's UN responsibilities.......plus ça change


https://securityassistance.org/colombia
https://securityassistance.org/eCUADOR
https://securityassistance.org/pERU


https://securityassistance.org/VENEZUELA

kowloon

Eric Cartman wrote: »

No, stalin was an alcoholic authoritarian communist who killed millions of people and through a series of massaging the facts is somehow not regarded as worse than hitler.

It's not a competition, but if it was Stalin got the high score in a much longer game and planned famines were in vogue at Hitler's dinner table. Make of that what you will.

Anyway, something, something Monroe Doctrine.

Cheerful Spring

SlowBlowin wrote: »

If nothing else the situation in Venezuela highlights the hypocrisy for the US stance on external states trying to influence elections. 2 years ago it was shock and horror that Russia influenced the US elections, now its OK for us to do it ..

Yes. Nobody heard of this Juan Guaidó a month ago. You find if you look him up he was educated in the United States at one of the IVY schools. He just a puppet to be installed to help the US..

More oil sanctions imposed by the US.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us-imposes-sanctions-on-venezuela-s-state-owned-oil-firm-1.3774391

If Venezuela had no oil they probably would not care.

Spannerplank

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Venezuelan people are eating rats and flamingos to stay alive. Socialism has failed there and the people are rising up against it.

Whatever about russia and stopping them, this may be the first time in a long time that US intervention would actually help the people on the ground and get them out from a legacy of tyranny.

I'm just going to try something here.

If it was actually untrue that Venezuela people were eating rats and flamingos to survive. If that was just a lie. And if the stories of Maduro gutting the country's wealth. If that was also a blatant lie, would you reconsider your stance on an American sponsored coup or invasion?

I'm asking you to answer as honestly a practically as you can.

Spannerplank

SNIP. No more video dumps please.

Spannerplank

Eric Cartman wrote: »

it doesn't get much harder than eating rats and flamingos to stay alive. The Venezuelan government starved their people and caused the problems. I agree that the US shouldn't be the world police that they are, but how do you suggest they break away from the tyranny of socialism on their own ?

The whole rats thing is just more propaganda. Like Saddam's incubators and WMD. Like ghaddaffis viagra. Like Assads chemical attacks. Like Kim having his ex murdered. Like Iran calling for Israel to be "wiped off the map".

You shouldn't keep calling for the same old spiel.

Spannerplank

blanch152 wrote: »

Venezuela has oil, yet its people are starving. How that is the fault of American foreign policy is mind-boggling.

Like any country, America operates its foreign policy for the good of America. China operates its foreign policy for the good of China. Ditto Russia, ditto Britain, ditto Cuba, ditto North Korea, and all the other good socialist states.

Should something be done about the situation in Venezuela? Yes.
Are they going to get assistance from North Korea? No.
Are America the only option to help? Looks like it.

Blanch, you can have all the oil in the world. If a hostile foreign power prevents you from trading it then your economy is going to collapse. The US have had the Saudis drive down the price of oil in order to bankrupt Venezuela. On top of that the US have blocked Venezuela from getting any kind of loans to further drive the society to the brink of starvation.

Gatling

Spannerplank wrote: »

The US have had the Saudis drive down the price of oil in order to bankrupt Venezuela.

Can you back up that claim with verified information or are you just throwing it out there as a conspiracy theory

theguzman

Gatling wrote: »

Can you back up that claim with verified information or are you just throwing it out there as a conspiracy theory

If anything it was to hurt Russia and prevent any threat to the PetroDollar emerging, America's motives are not really about the oil itself but rather the PetroDollar which allows them to print money, deficit spend and enslave all other countries to the financial system due to the PetroDollar.

Gatling

theguzman wrote: »

If anything it was to hurt Russia

So Saudi Arabia didn't drive down the cost of oil to bankrupt venezuela No ?

Subcomandante Marcos

Gatling wrote: »

So Saudi Arabia didn't drive down the cost of oil to bankrupt venezuela No ?

They (KSA) ramped up to 11 million barrels per day at the behest of the US, in exchange for massively discounted arms deals, to hurt (primarily) Iran (in addition to America re-instating ridiculous sanctions after withdrawing from the nuclear treaty for absolutely no reason other than to appeal to his idiot support base and get belly rubs from AIPAC) and Russia, the fact that Venezuela's losses would be compounded on top of unjustified sanctions was a bonus, but not the primary goal, the sanctions alone were enough to apply an economic siege on the Venezuelan economy in the medium term.

Saudi did this despite it hurting them financially, because it gained them arms and favour with the US and it helped them in their proxy war with Iran, and hurt Iran's allies Russia and Venezuela by extension.

As an aside, the US are doing this to hurt Iran and Russia, despite it causing turmoil in their own financial markets, because doctrine is more important than pragmatism to American right win ideologues.

Spannerplank

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Nobody said it was perfect, most countries in Central America are poor though. The difference is the Americans have picked on Venezuela since 2013 and there is the reason the country is struggling further. America has done it utmost to destroy the economy since 2013.

2013?

Have you forgotten the 2002 attempt to kill the entire administration?

Subcomandante Marcos

Chavez is disappeared in a Chinook and half an hour later the US ambassador is gald handing with the new self appointed "president" and generals on declaring American support for the new "leader".

That was a wild 36 hours.

Spannerplank

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Nobody said it was perfect, most countries in Central America are poor though. The difference is the Americans have picked on Venezuela since 2013 and there is the reason the country is struggling further. America has done it utmost to destroy the economy since 2013.

2013?

Have you forgotten the 2002 attempt to kill the entire administration?

Gatling

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

They (KSA) ramped up to 11 million barrels per day at the behest of the US, in exchange for massively discounted arms deals, to hurt (primarily) Iran (in addition to America re-instating ridiculous sanctions after withdrawing from the nuclear treaty for absolutely no reason other than to appeal to his idiot support base and get belly rubs from AIPAC) and Russia,

But didn't that actually hurt American domestic oil production especially in shale and fracking oil and gas industry

Subcomandante Marcos

Gatling wrote: »

But didn't that actually hurt American domestic oil production especially in shale and fracking oil and gas industry

Not really, no. It hurt profits a bit, but doesn't cause losses. Shale is cheap to extract and has quick RoI. Fracking is super cheap. Shale Gas is cheap to refine, fracked oil is generally light and cheap to refine. It's also an engineered price collapse and completely unsustainable so it's irrelevant to US companies who have medium to long term investment in and and sales of shale gas and fracked crude. the Saudi's can't keep their production that high in the medium term, as it chops their own legs out from under them, so US (and Canadian, though they are hurting more, heavy crude from Tar Sands for example is a lot more expensive to extract and process and they already sell to the US at a discount) producers just have to wait it out.
It is however causing massive issues in other areas the US financial markets.
And again, it's a case of doctrine trumping pragmatism.

Spannerplank

Harry Palmr wrote: »

There's 479 Norwegians in Ireland as of 2016 census. Not exactly an exodus! There is 1200 from Venezuela though!

How many British? If you want to bring the discussion down to childish levels.

Subcomandante Marcos

Spannerplank wrote: »

How many British? If you want to bring the discussion down to childish levels.

277,200, as of the last census.
Largest population after native Irish, damn brits, dey tuk ewr jerbs.

Spannerplank

Eric Cartman wrote: »

less than 10% of americans are on the poverty line, atleast 30 of the 36 million in venezuela are starving / malnourished. Now Im not advocating for the american system , but by metrics of starving people its certainly clear which country is better.

four out of the Americans live beloved the poverty line. Would you like the source of this abysmal fact. Try going onto the OECD website.

AngryHippie

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

They (KSA)

https://securityassistance.org/saudi%20arabia
https://www.ft.com/content/dd836c34-d60b-11e8-a854-33d6f82e62f8

Now we are talking about number that get things done !

The numbers don't stack up in terms of making it feasible, plausible or worthwhile for the US to run amok toppling governments down in South America.
They have been running around down there with a hard-on and a gun since forever. It's not about socialism, communism or any other sort of idealism.
Venezuela has oil, thus it must be controlled or sidelined and powerless to improve their bargaining position to eliminate competition.
This is and has always been achieved in the same manner as the other strategic resources in South America (Copper - Chile, Peru, Mexico; Iron - Brazil;)

Spannerplank

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

What other choice does the country have? The people are starving, millions have fled the nation, hyper inflation, economic collapse, political corruption. Another failed socialist state. Add that to the long list of failed nations. The people are going to try give someone else a go who might actually solve some problems. For a country floating in oil it should be the bread basket of South America and not the poor man.

Murray

Millions have fled Syria. And Iraq. And Libya.

They are now arriving in Europe hoping that their nightmare might come to an end. These people are fleeing American bombing of their countries.

One would have to be a moron to think that a man and his family would fled from where they grew up and feel safe just because the government are corrupt.

These people are running from death and it isn't their own people who are
delivering the horrors.

Gatling

Spannerplank wrote: »

Murray

Millions have fled Syria. And Iraq.

They are now arriving in Europe hoping that their nightmare might come to an end. These people are fleeing American bombing of their countries.

Nothing to do with Isis No ? And the Assad regime ?

na1

Good loser wrote: »

Have they any idea of what havoc he has rained on his country (to date) and what more such he will do until he's removed?

People starving!
3m fled the country!
No medicines!
Supreme court ransacked!
Parliament discarded after opposition won the election!
1,000,000% inflation
Daughter of Chavez the richest person in the country
The ruling elite corrupt from top to bottom
Oil industry run into the ground

Some countries are more equal than others.

Rwanda 1994:1 million civilians (Tutsi) were slaughtered mostly due to French supported media.

Do you remember any sanctions? Condemnation? "Rwanda President must go"?

During these events and in the aftermath, the United Nations (UN) and countries including the United States, the United Kingdom, and Belgium were criticized for their inaction and failure to strengthen the force and mandate of the UN Assistance Mission for Rwanda (UNAMIR) peacekeepers. In December 2017, media reported revelations that the government of France had allegedly supported the Hutu government after the genocide had begun

na1

Gatling wrote: »

And the Assad regime ?

What is the difference between Assad regime and Abdrabbuh Mansur Hadi (presidend of Yemen) regime ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_takeover_in_Yemen

markodaly

Spannerplank wrote: »

The whole rats thing is just more propaganda. Like Saddam's incubators and WMD. Like ghaddaffis viagra. Like Assads chemical attacks. Like Kim having his ex murdered. Like Iran calling for Israel to be "wiped off the map".

You shouldn't keep calling for the same old spiel.

In fairness, the Conspiracy Theory forum is --> this way.