PTSB removing Loyalty Current Account

wonski

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

There is no difference in the function of the accounts, why are bringing modern or up to date products into this discussion?

My loyality current account is no different than any other account (same visa card, same open24, same functions). The only difference is that I don't pay a maintenance fee. And I don't get the reward for using my card but technicaly there is no difference.

If the account on offer was more modern (like google pay, visa card notifications in app etc.) obviously that would be a more modern or up to date product.

This is simply a process to get everybody to pay for their bank accounts, nothing to do with offering a new more modern product.

I don't pay for banking. Never paid.

You can either send letters etc or just switch to the one that doesn't cost you money. That's all I am saying.

I am not defending any bank and personally find the interes rates ridicolous. But your loyalty account is an old product they want to get away with. That's it.

Yggr of Asgard

wonski wrote: »

I don't pay for banking. Never paid.

You can either send letters etc or just switch to the one that doesn't cost you money. That's all I am saying.

I am not defending any bank and personally find the interes rates ridicolous. But your loyalty account is an old product they want to get away with. That's it.

The only true free banking in Ireland is ESB (unless you are willing to go with N26), all other banks have conditions for it to be free (or sort of free).

Sour Lemonz might be one of those customers who got promised banking free for life or as long as you bank with us, so s/he clearly has the right to complain and request the T&C for the account he signed up for.

If nobody ever complaints nothing ever will change. Without someone complaining most goverment agencies still would not allow the usage of non-irish accounts for direct debit for example.

So if Sour Lemonz wants to go down that route, well good.

Bojill

Looks like I'll have to switch both of our accounts to the explore so, and get a little creative with the card usage on both accounts.
They also give 5 % back on Sky and SSE direct debits.

Roanmore

JTMan wrote: »

Firstly, take a step backwards and see if you are really effected by this. What is the name of the product that you have with PTSB?

Secondly, while admirable that one takes a stand on things, you are inflicting far more pain on yourself than the bank, by switching.

Again, you can switch to the PTSB Explore Account, and provided you make reasonable usage of your debit card, PTSB will pay you to have the account rather than visa versa. A simple call and this is sorted rather than putting yourself through the often-enormous-hassle of switching banks.

Is it possible to switch to the Explore account online. I checked on Open24 and can’t find anything. Thanks

JTMan

Fairly sure you need to ring 1890 500 121 or +353 1 212 4101 or go to a branch.

1hnr79jr65

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

The only true free banking in Ireland is ESB (unless you are willing to go with N26), all other banks have conditions for it to be free (or sort of free).

Sour Lemonz might be one of those customers who got promised banking free for life or as long as you bank with us, so s/he clearly has the right to complain and request the T&C for the account he signed up for.

If nobody ever complaints nothing ever will change. Without someone complaining most goverment agencies still would not allow the usage of non-irish accounts for direct debit for example.

So if Sour Lemonz wants to go down that route, well good.

When i got my first mortgage at age of 20, part of the agreement was i would retain my current account without any account related charges for life, not life of mortgage but life of account being open.

What they are doing is taking something away from me which i dont agree to as i signed an agreement when i took a mortgage to retain for the life of the account.

I don't know what chance i have of stopping them but your right if i dont try i wont know.

Yggr of Asgard

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

When i got my first mortgage at age of 20, part of the agreement was i would retain my current account without any account related charges for life, not life of mortgage but life of account being open.

What they are doing is taking something away from me which i dont agree to as i signed an agreement when i took a mortgage to retain for the life of the account.

I don't know what chance i have of stopping them but your right if i dont try i wont know.

That exactly is my point, you might have a valid claim to take to the regulator.

Damien360

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

When i got my first mortgage at age of 20, part of the agreement was i would retain my current account without any account related charges for life, not life of mortgage but life of account being open.

What they are doing is taking something away from me which i dont agree to as i signed an agreement when i took a mortgage to retain for the life of the account.

I don't know what chance i have of stopping them but your right if i dont try i wont know.

I got my mortgage in 1999 and I was promised similar but the trade name on the account changed (can't remember titles but let's say free to must keep balance). This title change has happened a few times and is usually in line with my change of bank cards as they expire.

They used to send T&C with your new card and it is highly likely that acceptance of the card is acceptance of change of charges. You can be damn sure neither of us would have a leg to stand on in any court with regards charges.

We were all promised many moons ago by the state that it would be made easier to change bank to allow people shop around and create competition. That never happened or at least is just lip service. Changing your Direct Debits even now is a pain in the arse. Can't imagine the pain with a new bank.

ted1

JTMan wrote: »

I don't see why people are talking about switching bank. As others have pointed out, switch product rather than switch bank. Switch product to the PTSB Explore Current Account.

Not everyone is effected. Unaffected accounts seem to be:
PRESTIGE HICA ACCOUNT,
Switch Current account
TUSA CURRENT ACCOUNT
Explore Current Account
Student Account
Teen Account
My Cash
Basic Payment Account
Some accounts held by those aged 60+
Some accounts held by those aged 66+

PTSB have a horrendously long list of legacy products.

Its called voting with our feet

1hnr79jr65

ted1 wrote: »

Its called voting with our feet

Thats exactly the point, if they insist on this change and regulator does not wish to pursue PTSB for this i will take my business and others business elsewhere. Bit hard to have power over customers when they leave you.

JTMan

The T&C's for the Loyalty Account are on page 9 and page 10 here. There is no mention of the exemptions to fees lasting "for life" nor "for the duration of the account held".

Its called voting with our feet

If you wish go ahead and go through the pain of switching bank rather than simply switching product.

regulator does not wish to pursue PTSB for this

I guess you mean Ombudsman. The Ombudsman has no grounds to pursue this unless there is evidence that PTSB are breaking terms or evidence of mis-selling. I have seen no hard evidence of this thus far.

Tar.Aldarion

Going to move to kbc, the savings account is much better already and the oercebtage is added to if you have a current account.

Rows Grower

I opened a new account with AIB recently is there any advantage in me switching my Loyalty account to them?

It has regular payments to and regular bills paid from it plus the debit card on it is used.

If there's a better deal out there I wouldn't mind contacting the companies to give them new bank details.

1874

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

I have just been onto open24.ie about this and logged a formal complaint with them.

Once i get a response i will escalate to the financial services ombudsman.

I have had account with TSB for approx 23 years and what they are pulling is absolute bull crap.

august12 wrote: »

Good on you, as a country we are too complacent. If we don't complain, then nothing changes. I just received good news today on a different issue and am due a refund of a clamping fee,

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

An Post bank and credit unions with their entry into mortgage market could become a good option now also.

Ive logged a few complaints with PTSB over the last few years, rarely do they go anywhere, I got a few letters saying they were investigating my complaints and nothing ever came of it. I have a switch current account and I like the online setup, but I think there should be a reward for loyalty, they have already dialed down the rates of interest on a number of savings accounts, dont expect complaints to go anywhere, I still think its good to make them though if there is a poor service, otherwise they are off the hook/wont know if no feedback/will do whatever they please if they think no one will complain (as with anyone/service provider).
I still think the CU and An Post are potentially good options for other purposes than daily banking and that may even be possible or should be.

dennyk

worker bee wrote: »

This seems ridiculous to me. It is as if PTSB wants to drive away customers.

That's because they do. If a customer only has one of these legacy fee-free accounts and doesn't even carry an average daily balance of at least a few grand, then they are not making the bank any money; in fact, if they are making too many transactions or if they ever interact with customer service or (worse yet) an in-person teller, they are most likely costing the bank money. At best they might be a future potential upsale for some other product that does make a profit, like a mortgage or other loan or some high-fee investment product, but the bank will have plenty of data on exactly how many of these legacy customers actually end up buying these other products, and if it's a low enough percentage, then it is no longer in the best interest of the bank to keep these folks around under the terms of their legacy accounts. If you're not creating a profit for the bank and you aren't statistically likely to become more profitable for them in the near future, then they are more than happy to see you gone. It's just the way these things work, I'm afraid; that's business, as they say...

Sheep Shagger

As a matter of interest why do people think they should be entitled to free transactional banking?

You get the benefits of technology but don't want to pay anything for it?

AlmightyCushion

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

As a matter of interest why do people think they should be entitled to free transactional banking?

You get the benefits of technology but don't want to pay anything for it?

No one is entitled to it but if others are offering it, then it would be stupid to pay PTSB for banking when switching will get you free banking.

ted1

JTMan wrote: »

The T&C's for the Loyalty Account are on page 9 and page 10 here. There is no mention of the exemptions to fees lasting "for life" nor "for the duration of the account held".



If you wish go ahead and go through the pain of switching bank rather than simply switching product.



I guess you mean Ombudsman. The Ombudsman has no grounds to pursue this unless there is evidence that PTSB are breaking terms or evidence of mis-selling. I have seen no hard evidence of this thus far.

What pain ? I just send a mail to payroll and PTSB transfers all payments to my new account.

Rows Grower

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

As a matter of interest why do people think they should be entitled to free transactional banking?

You get the benefits of technology but don't want to pay anything for it?

The banks are using our money, they provide a service but make huge profits from the money they are given to mind. They are trying to push us into a cashless society whereby anytime we want to spend our own money they make a profit.

They are tearing the arse out of it slowly but surely.

There was a time when you could deal with people who worked for the bank, now it's almost impossible to speak to one on the phone.

ted1

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

As a matter of interest why do people think they should be entitled to free transactional banking?

You get the benefits of technology but don't want to pay anything for it?

Because the bank have my money on deposit. They pay little interest and in turn loan out my money and charge a high interest rate on it.

They make money off the back of my money

delta_bravo

ted1 wrote: »

What pain ? I just send a mail to payroll and PTSB transfers all payments to my new account.

There is some pain. If you have subscriptions you'll need to change the details, go through all your online stuff. Off the top of my head I think I'd have to update bank or card details at around fifteen different places.

Tar.Aldarion

dennyk wrote: »

That's because they do. If a customer only has one of these legacy fee-free accounts and doesn't even carry an average daily balance of at least a few grand, then they are not making the bank any money; in fact, if they are making too many transactions or if they ever interact with customer service or (worse yet) an in-person teller, they are most likely costing the bank money. At best they might be a future potential upsale for some other product that does make a profit, like a mortgage or other loan or some high-fee investment product, but the bank will have plenty of data on exactly how many of these legacy customers actually end up buying these other products, and if it's a low enough percentage, then it is no longer in the best interest of the bank to keep these folks around under the terms of their legacy accounts. If you're not creating a profit for the bank and you aren't statistically likely to become more profitable for them in the near future, then they are more than happy to see you gone. It's just the way these things work, I'm afraid; that's business, as they say...

Nobody with money keeps it in their current account where it makes nothing, I have a lot of money with them but it's not sitting in that account.

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

As a matter of interest why do people think they should be entitled to free transactional banking?

You get the benefits of technology but don't want to pay anything for it?

It's certainly not free banking. They make money off our money and want us to pay them for the privilege.

delta_bravo wrote: »

There is some pain. If you have subscriptions you'll need to change the details, go through all your online stuff. Off the top of my head I think I'd have to update bank or card details at around fifteen different places.

I fill the card details in once and chrome remembers it everywhere.

ted1

delta_bravo wrote: »

There is some pain. If you have subscriptions you'll need to change the details, go through all your online stuff. Off the top of my head I think I'd have to update bank or card details at around fifteen different places.

All my online stuff is done via Revolut or N26.

Yggr of Asgard

JTMan wrote: »

If you wish go ahead and go through the pain of switching bank rather than simply switching product.

Well as our govement says: The Central Bank Switching Code is on your side making the process easier than ever.
Source: https://www.switchyourbank.ie/

So it's easy enough to do if you choose to change to a different bank which better fits your purpose.
And while that does not work with automatic charges to the visa card, it works for direct debits/standing orders etc.

JTMan wrote: »

I guess you mean Ombudsman. The Ombudsman has no grounds to pursue this unless there is evidence that PTSB are breaking terms or evidence of mis-selling. I have seen no hard evidence of this thus far.

And therefore people are asking PTSB for a copy of the original T&C that they signed up for. Some people have loyality accounts from before PTSB existed and were signed up to these account as part of a lending process or as part of parking savings with the bank.

Just because after 20+ years the bank deceides to take away the discount does not mean that people have to accept it. After that time, one can very well ask the bank to investigate this further and make an informed decision if the new accounts on offer from PTSB or a different provider is the right thing to do.

Sheep Shagger

ted1 wrote: »

Because the bank have my money on deposit. They pay little interest and in turn loan out my money and charge a high interest rate on it.

They make money off the back of my money

There are thousands (probably hundreds of thousands) of customers where the bank makes next to nothing as relstively small amounts go in and dribs and drabs (debits out), that type of service has a cost attached to it. The balances even combined are small in terms of wholesale deposits - hence banks wanting to move to minimum amounts thresholds etc.

Rows Grower

etc. me balls.

AndrewJRenko

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

The only true free banking in Ireland is ESB (unless you are willing to go with N26), all other banks have conditions for it to be free (or sort of free).

Sour Lemonz might be one of those customers who got promised banking free for life or as long as you bank with us, so s/he clearly has the right to complain and request the T&C for the account he signed up for.

If nobody ever complaints nothing ever will change. Without someone complaining most goverment agencies still would not allow the usage of non-irish accounts for direct debit for example.

So if Sour Lemonz wants to go down that route, well good.

ESB?

Do you mean EBS?

The J Stands for Jay

worker bee wrote: »

I have been a customer of PTSB for nearly 20 years now (on the ironically named Loyalty account). Get salary paid in and also had a mortgage with them.

I wrote to PTSB several times in recent years about their mortgage interest rates and they refused to drop them at all.

We have recently switched our mortgage to a new lender. So PTSB lost a performing mortgage by refusing to acknowledge customer loyalty at all.

Now they will lose more clients.

Ugh, the hassle of another switch though.

Any tips on which bank offers the simplest procedure and the simplest account?
I did actually quite like the PTSB open24 facility.

You'll be in for a treat, because open24 is terrible.

The J Stands for Jay

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

An Post bank and credit unions with their entry into mortgage market could become a good option now also.

Not with an post's track record in banking, and the credit unions aren't exactly showing themselves in a shining light over the last decade or so.

The J Stands for Jay

JTMan wrote: »

Fairly sure you need to ring 1890 500 121 or +353 1 212 4101 or go to a branch.

With ptsb they usually need you in the branch to do anything.