Can an employer reinstate probation. Is that legal?

Ollibelo

If you pass your probation period, and it's on record and so on.
Then, if an incident occurs a few months later (handing in notice and then rescinding it), can the employer reinstate a probation period because of rescinding the notice?

myshirt

Yes.

Ollibelo

myshirt wrote: »

Yes.

Are you 100% sure?
I'm not talking about extending the probationary period.
I'm talking about adding a second period of it after successfully passing the first one.

Thanks.

Mundo7976

You handed in notice not long after passing probation and then rescinded it, flip flopping around, id say employer is looking for the best way to get rid.

Ollibelo

Mundo7976 wrote: »

You handed in notice not long after passing probation and then rescinded it, flip flopping around, id say employer is looking for the best way to get rid.

Not looking for an opinion here.
Looking for anyone who knows for a fact if this is legal.
My workplace is an absolute **** hole. Some ppl have walked out due to conditions. I've had 15 yrs in various workplaces and never once flip flopped around. I made an error in judgement in leaving the last job and going to this one.

Ollibelo

Furthermore, my manager lied through her teeth about the job and where I stood in the organisation.

Bicycle

You handed in your notice. They accepted it.

Then you asked them if you could work for them again (you withdrew your resignation). And they allowed you withdraw your resignation - in other words they offered you the job you resigned from.

And presumably there is a probationary period when you start the job.

Jim2007

Ollibelo wrote: »

Not looking for an opinion here.
Looking for anyone who knows for a fact if this is legal.

You will only get opinions here, you want legal advice talk to a solicitor.

_Brian

I suspect this isn’t quite right.

I don’t accept what a previous poster said about essentiallymbeing rehired, did you sign a new contract when you rescinded your notice of termination ??

What does your contract say about probationary period ?

Does the company have any written procedures where employees can be placed back onto probation ??

Lastly, was there anything else, was there bad feelings about handing in notice, what led up to this happening ?

Del2005

Probation is BS anyway. Your employer can fire you within the first year with little effort or repurcusions. So even if you have finished probation you can still be let go.

screamer

Technically they are not reinstating it, (You can’t rescind your notice BTW) You resigned, so you’re effectively a new hire as they re-hired you, they didn’t just cancel your notice. ball is in their court and they’re hedging their bets with you.
Bigger question for you to think about is why did you do that in a job where your manager lied through their teeth? I’d stay job hunting if you’re unhappy where you are.

Ollibelo

screamer wrote: »

Technically they are not reinstating it, (You can’t rescind your notice BTW) You resigned, so you’re effectively a new hire as they re-hired you, they didn’t just cancel your notice. ball is in their court and they’re hedging their bets with you.
Bigger question for you to think about is why did you do that in a job where your manager lied through their teeth? I’d stay job hunting if you’re unhappy where you are.

Thanks, the correct word is retract. I retracted my notice, which everyone has a right to do....and the company accepted.

I mentioned the situation to a friend and he said this was not legal. That's why I was asking on here - if anyone had been in this situation, or if anyone would know. Of course I know I can seek formal legal advise, but not on a sat night/sun morning.

Yes she, manager, got me on board with promises for this and that and it's all baloney.

Definitely on the lookout, but it has to be the right job. Can't get in this position again. Thought I did my research but boy was I wrong!!

Ollibelo

Ollibelo wrote: »

Thanks, the correct word is retract. I retracted my notice, which everyone has a right to do....and the company accepted.

While everyone has a right to retract, the company is not obligated to accept it and can let you go.

cdeb

screamer wrote: »

Technically they are not reinstating it, (You can’t rescind your notice BTW) You resigned, so you’re effectively a new hire as they re-hired you, they didn’t just cancel your notice. ball is in their court and they’re hedging their bets with you.

I can't see that this is true unless a new contract, etc, was done up. If the OP is working on the same contract, then its terms continue to apply.

What does your contract say re probation? They'll typically say that probation is six months, with an option to extend but no longer than 11 months from joining, because I think that's the maximum length that probation can apply for.

So first off, if you're now there more than 11 months, I don't see that they can reinstate probation in any way. I've never heard of probation being reinstated - and given that it tends to relate to performance, then it would be very unusual to reinstate if for reason of handing in a notice and then retracting that notice.

I'd be speculating to say further, but I think it would be dodgy for the employer to take any action based on the info above. CitizensInformation has some info here, including contact details if you want to discuss it with them.

Ollibelo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

While everyone has a right to retract, the company is not obligated to accept it and can let you go.

Correct, in general. In my specific circumstances, they have accepted.

Ollibelo

cdeb wrote: »

I can't see that this is true unless a new contract, etc, was done up. If the OP is working on the same contract, then its terms continue to apply.

What does your contract say re probation? They'll typically say that probation is six months, with an option to extend but no longer than 11 months from joining, because I think that's the maximum length that probation can apply for.

So first off, if you're now there more than 11 months, I don't see that they can reinstate probation in any way. I've never heard of probation being reinstated - and given that it tends to relate to performance, then it would be very unusual to reinstate if for reason of handing in a notice and then retracting that notice.

I'd be speculating to say further, but I think it would be dodgy for the employer to take any action based on the info above. CitizensInformation has some info here, including contact details if you want to discuss it with them.

Thank you, I think I'll get in touch with them just for information. Iif I find out anything, I'll share.

It certainly doesn't seem right that you can pass your probation (I got a payrise and a bonus also) that they can decide to reinstate an additional probation period. The reason stated was due to handing in my notice and retracting. I would have thought a personal improvement plan world be more along the right lines.

Thanks for those that contributed helpfully.

Dav010

Ollibelo wrote: »

Thank you, I think I'll get in touch with them just for information. Iif I find out anything, I'll share.

It certainly doesn't seem right that you can pass your probation (I got a payrise and a bonus also) that they can decide to reinstate an additional probation period. The reason stated was due to handing in my notice and retracting. I would have thought a personal improvement plan world be more along the right lines.

Thanks for those that contributed helpfully.

But you passed your probation, then unilaterally informed them that you wanted to terminate your employment. They didn’t have to agree to you withdrawing your notice, but they did, apparently with a condition attached.

They did you a favour there.

Stheno

Ollibelo wrote: »

Thank you, I think I'll get in touch with them just for information. Iif I find out anything, I'll share.

It certainly doesn't seem right that you can pass your probation (I got a payrise and a bonus also) that they can decide to reinstate an additional probation period. The reason stated was due to handing in my notice and retracting. I would have thought a personal improvement plan world be more along the right lines.

Thanks for those that contributed helpfully.

A pip would be worse tbh

cdeb

Dav010 wrote: »

They did you a favour there.

They did. Doesn't mean you can reapply probation though (unless it was agreed that a new contract would apply)

Stheno

Stheno wrote: »

A pip would be worse tbh

Definitely, in my work place their designed to be unreachable as per written instructions from upper management in the US especially as they want to replace their Irish, Japanese and LTAM employees with cheaper and more easily removable contractors in India.

_Brian

DubInMeath wrote: »

Definitely, in my work place their designed to be unreachable as per written instructions from upper management in the US especially as they want to replace their Irish, Japanese and LTAM employees with cheaper and more easily removable contractors in India.

Have to admit this is sometimes the case.
I would urge anyone going into a pip to emsure the goals are achievable. They should be same as any ordinary worker could achieve. The aim should be to make the employee functional not a super human. But it is a way of escalating things with paperwork.

Avatar MIA

OP,

I think everyone when posting in the Work and Jobs forum posts with the best intention. Personally, any of my work anecdotes in such forums will always be based on real personal experience and my OL representation would be the same as my RL persona. The same wouldn't always be true in say AH or Write Club (which is fiction by definition) which may include fabrication for the LOLz.

In general in such forums as this everyone will give their best and truthful advice.

In relation to your question, there's nothing in legislation about probation periods. But, because of the Unfair dismissals acts it cannot go beyond 12 months. 11 months is mentioned because the Unfair dismissal Act takes the contractual notice period into account. Say someone works for you for 49 weeks and they are entitled to a month's notice then they are going to benefit from the Unfair Dismissals act if you let them go on Week 49.

TL/DR Probation is a contract between an individual and an employer and as such needs to be interpreted as such. Probation periods are largely irrelevant in my opinion, it's the 12 month employment period that matters.

OMM 0000

Your employment contract states the probation period.

Your employer has chosen to change your contract rather than let you go.

You can refuse the contract change. This will result in either the employer backing down, or you being let go.

Personally, if I didn't have many other job options, I would accept the probation and make sure I passed it.

gallifreya

Ok. Bit light on details but I understand that you successfully passed a probationary period with this company then at some stage received a bonus and payrise on foot of this and I take it these remain in place and your start date remains the same.

You felt the role was misrepresented and a while later handed in your notice – what reason if any did you give at the time?
Some time later you approached your employer and asked to withdraw your notice and they agreed. However it transpired that a probationary period was reinstated. Was there any documented correspondence surrounding this?

I accept that an employer may feel a bit wary about the situation but reinstating a full probation period when it has been successfully passed is unusual and unless provided for in the contract, could possibly be challenged (if you felt it worthwhile to embark on that crusade). I can't find anything specific on the legality of reinstating a probation period in these circumstances, however, a probation period is to assess if both parties feel the working arrangement is suitable and this has been achieved already. By accepting your continuing employment nothing has changed in that regard. Reinstating probation is, in my opinion, a punitive exercise and possibly designed to make it easier to terminate once a suitable replacement is sourced – but I’m just speculating.

How soon afterwards did you retract your notice? This could be important.

Others have asked the circumstances surrounding handing in your notice – did anything lead up to it other than general fed-upness? I’m asking could it have been a ‘heat of the moment’ decision or was there any ‘special circumstances’?

Check what your contract states about probationary periods, extensions and if there is any mention of possibly reinstating the probationary period.

How long are you there in total and did you take any holidays with them?
How long was the original probation period and is the new one the same length?
Is there a specified notice period contained in the contract or just statutory?

Employers need to be careful with extending probationary periods. Start date + Probation + holidays accrued (not taken) + notice period can take an employee over the 12 months when they gain full protection of the unfair dismissal acts.

My own view is that in general, once an employee resigns it should be accepted. In their mind they have already left or are counting the days until they can. Tying to fix things after a letter of resignation has been received - is too late. The relationship is never the same and I’ve found that most go on to leave further down the line. So I have to ask - if you are that dissatisfied and going to leave anyway, is it worth kicking up a fuss over this when you could be using the time to make every effort to find a better role elsewhere?

splinter65

Ollibelo wrote: »

Thanks, the correct word is retract. I retracted my notice, which everyone has a right to do....and the company accepted.

I mentioned the situation to a friend and he said this was not legal. That's why I was asking on here - if anyone had been in this situation, or if anyone would know. Of course I know I can seek formal legal advise, but not on a sat night/sun morning.

Yes she, manager, got me on board with promises for this and that and it's all baloney.

Definitely on the lookout, but it has to be the right job. Can't get in this position again. Thought I did my research but boy was I wrong!!

If your friend says confidently that it’s “illegal” then surely he can tell you what law your employer has broken and then you can go to the WRC online complaint form and make your complaint.
It’s pointless telling you that your complaint won’t be heard because you’ve not been employed there for 12 months.

gandalf

TBH I can't answer if it is legal or not to make you go through probation again. What concerns me is you were pushed to resign and changed your mind. Unless this place has improved dramatically since you flip flopped on the resignation I'd personally would be putting all my energies into securing a job elsewhere rather than waste time on this argument with an organisation that in reality you don't want to work for.