Micky Jackson in trouble again

retro:electro

It’s more likely that Jackson’s defence team didn’t know that Robson was former victim himself when asked to take the stand, and Michael could hardly say “no we won’t ask him just in case he spills the beans about the time I anally raped him”.

Boggles

Jackson's defense team grilled all the witnesses before putting them on the stand, it's absolute standard practice.

Robson passed that and he passed a brutal and extreme cross examination with flying colors.

There wasn't a question he faulted or hesitated on.

That is just amazing from such an alleged reluctant witness.

retro:electro

“There wasn’t a question he faulted or hesitated on”

Yeah that’ll be the coaching. That actually sounds suspiciously unnatural to me while being put in a situation that 99% of people would feel stress and pressure under.
Strange.


But lemme guess.. “rattle rattle.. fook fook”

turbbo

Boggles wrote: »

Make a claim, post it up.

suicide_circus wrote:

I think we're forgetting something very important in all of this. Okay, sure, he touched some children, but the man is a great singer and he has entertained us for so many years.All this baad-mouthin' and puttin' the man down. Maybe he did touch some children now and then, but come on! It's Michael Jackson! Michael Jackson!

:P

fin12

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

The scenario is exactly like Jimmy Saville.

Both men went to their graves with no convictions against their names.

If only they had been held properly accountable during their lifetimes.

You can't convict a corpse.

Are u for real? Michael Jackson has been accused of these malicious false accusations for years during his time on earth, it contributed a lot to him dying so young.

In contrast Jimmy Seville died a very old man and only all the accusations against him started to flood in after his death.

Michael Jackson wasn’t given a moments peace on this earth and he is still being hounded in death. Hopefully the Jackson estate are taking a lawsuit out again the makers of this documentary.

And that Oprah Winfrey, racist b*tch, she’s jumping on the bandwagon now cause hated the fact Michael wanted to be white. She was all over him like a fly on sh*te when he was still black.

retro:electro

He died because he was a drug addict :rolleyes: probably roofing himself was the only way to drown out the fact he molested a loads of kids

Mam of 4

It's on Ch 4 now if anyone hasn't seen it yet .

turbbo

fin12 wrote: »

And that Oprah Winfrey, racist b*tch, she’s jumping on the bandwagon now cause hated the fact Michael wanted to be white. She was all over him like a fly on sh*te when he was still black.

wtf?

turbbo

Great article here in the NYT says it all really...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/05/arts/television/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-martin-bashir.html

ceadaoin.

So it's on now. I wonder can the Michael defenders who still don't believe these claims afterwards tell me the reasons they don't believe James Safechuck? I get why you might not want to back down about Robson, the MJ machine has gone all in on discrediting him.

But I have never seen a more sincere and honest account of abuse from a clearly very damaged and traumatised person than what I witnessed from James in Leaving Neverland. We are expected to believe he and his family are making it all up because why? He's never defended Michael since he was a child and still under Michael's influence . Never "changed his story". He refused to testify in 2005 despite Jackson dangling the carrot of helping him with movies over his head. What does that say?

retro:electro

Also a very valid point there. When you are being told for seven years straight that if anyone finds out about this we will both be in big trouble, it’s very hard to get out of the rhythm of that oppressive thought. Seven years being groomed, how many years does it take to feel free from the process? Also moving the parents further and further away from their room each time... Jesus.

ceadaoin.

retro:electro wrote: »

Also a very valid point there. When you are being told for seven years straight that if anyone finds out about this we will both be in big trouble, it’s very hard to get out of the rhythm of that oppressive thought. Seven years being groomed, how many years does it take to feel free from the process? Also moving the parents further and further away from their room each time... Jesus.

Safechuck said on the Oprah thing that even over this past weekend he has been feeling so guilty for "telling" on Michael and putting it all out there. People forget just how much events of your childhood stay in your psyche

retro:electro

What is also abundantly clear is how absolutely awe struck those kids were for Michael and would have done absolutely anything to please him. Probably another reason why Michael “preferred” them over the likes of Culkin and Feldman who were established industry stars with regular celebrity attachments and didn’t view him in the same light as a normal run of the mill 8 year old child would. It’s very easy to exploit someone who would do absolutely anything to be in your company.

Motivator

Whatever went on, the parents are at fault for all of it. Whoring out their kids so they could love the high life that was provided by that wierdo Jackson.

Sheeps

Don't believe a word of it. Seems Michael Jackson is an easy target in the age of the "me too" movement to make a quick buck against the estate since he's not around to present a defence. No thanks. The alleged victims, in this case, have absolutely no credibility, and ill never forgive them for making me agree with Piers Morgan on the topic.

end of the road

retro:electro wrote: »

He died because he was a drug addict probably roofing himself was the only way to drown out the fact he molested a loads of kids

allegedly is the very important word you are missing from the second part of your post.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

How many children went through the gates of Neverland over the years. How many were invited more than once. How many were asked to stay the night. How many were asked to go on over night stays. How many did he end up abusing?

The number gets less and less like trying to win X Factor.

With or without a guilty verdict. His behaviour matches up perfectly with that of a paedo who happened to be a multi millionaire music superstar. He can be both.

retro:electro

Motivator wrote: »

Whatever went on, the parents are at fault for all of it. Whoring out their kids so they could live the high life that was provided by that wierdo Jackson.

Really? So you absolve Michael of all responsibility for molesting children if they claims are indeed true?

The parents were stupid for sure and handed their children on a platter and should be criticised for that, but the one who is responsible for molesting them is the one who molested them.

Motivator

retro:electro wrote: »

Really? So you absolve Michael of all responsibility for molesting children if they claims are indeed true?

The parents were stupid for sure and handed their children on a platter and should be criticised for that, but the one who is responsible for molesting them is the one who molested them.

Im not defending him for a second. My point is that the parents left their kids with him for days on end to keep him happy so they could they stay on the gravy train paid for in full by Jackson.

Yes he was the one who did whatever he did to those children, but the money and fame hungry parents put their children in the position that they found themselves in. No 7 year old child should be be put in a situation where they are left alone with a clearly disturbed person for 5 days.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Sheeps wrote: »

Don't believe a word of it. Seems Michael Jackson is an easy target in the age of the "me too" movement to make a quick buck against the estate since he's not around to present a defence. No thanks. The alleged victims, in this case, have absolutely no credibility, and ill never forgive them for making me agree with Piers Morgan on the topic.

Michael Jackson was #metoo'd 30 years before #metoo.

fin12

Motivator wrote: »

Im not defending him for a second. My point is that the parents left their kids with him for days on end to keep him happy so they could they stay on the gravy train paid for in full by Jackson.

Yes he was the one who did whatever he did to those children, but the money and fame hungry parents put their children in the position that they found themselves in. No 7 year old child should be be put in a situation where they are left alone with a clearly disturbed person for 5 days.

Ya if Michael was Joe blogs next door would they be as quick to let their kids hang out there and sleep over. Don’t think so cause no money would have been exchanged.

retro:electro

Motivator wrote: »

Im not defending him for a second. My point is that the parents left their kids with him for days on end to keep him happy so they could they stay on the gravy train paid for in full by Jackson.

Yes he was the one who did whatever he did to those children, but the money and fame hungry parents put their children in the position that they found themselves in. No 7 year old child should be be put in a situation where they are left alone with a clearly disturbed person for 5 days.

Yes, and I agree with you to an extent. But I’m challenging you on your point where you said “whatever went on, the parents are responsible for all of it”, which is fcuking absurd. They are to blame for putting their children in risky situations, they owed them more than to do that. They are not responsible for the abuse that took place.
It’s clear to see that he groomed the whole family.

ceadaoin.

Sheeps wrote: »

Don't believe a word of it. Seems Michael Jackson is an easy target in the age of the "me too" movement to make a quick buck against the estate since he's not around to present a defence. No thanks. The alleged victims, in this case, have absolutely no credibility, and ill never forgive them for making me agree with Piers Morgan on the topic.

Did you watch the film?

BorneTobyWilde

Feels like a fire that burns in my heart
Every single moment that we spend apart
I need you around for every day to start
I haven't left you alone

There's something about you, I stare in your eyes
And everything I'm looking for I seem to find
All this time away is killing me inside
I need your love in my life

I want to spend time till it ends
I want to fall with you again
Like we did when we first met
I want to fall with you again

We fought in a battle, nobody won
And left ourselves a mountain to be overcome
You can't run away, the past is said and done
I need us to carry on

I want to spend time till it ends
I want to fall with you again
Like we did when we first met
I want to fall with you again


Hard to enjoy his songs without wondering what or who he's talking about.

super_furry

Is any of this really news though? I was always surprised the way people were able to just shrug aside all the accusations, court-cases and pay-offs that followed Jackson throughout his career.

BorneTobyWilde

James Safechuck, if you rearrange letters in his name it reads

''J, He F-ucks Ass ,Came '' or ''Much fee, Jackass''

Ironically he's one or the other I guess. Is it true, or is he a Jackass seeking a '' much fee ''

Jane_Dough

Didn’t believe a word of that documentary. The way they spoke didn’t even seem sincere or genuine.

I’m honestly so sick of this sh*t. People coming out of the woodwork years on and when a man is dead and unable to defend himself.

That documentary was a load of nonsense imo.

8-10

super_furry wrote: »

Is any of this really news though? I was always surprised the way people were able to just shrug aside all the accusations, court-cases and pay-offs that followed Jackson throughout his career.

Shrug off? What makes the 93 and 05 court cases believable to you?

fin12

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Feels like a fire that burns in my heart
Every single moment that we spend apart
I need you around for every day to start
I haven't left you alone

There's something about you, I stare in your eyes
And everything I'm looking for I seem to find
All this time away is killing me inside
I need your love in my life

I want to spend time till it ends
I want to fall with you again
Like we did when we first met
I want to fall with you again

We fought in a battle, nobody won
And left ourselves a mountain to be overcome
You can't run away, the past is said and done
I need us to carry on

I want to spend time till it ends
I want to fall with you again
Like we did when we first met
I want to fall with you again


Hard to enjoy his songs without wondering what or who he's talking about.

Well Ben was about his pet rat :pac:

Motivator

retro:electro wrote: »

Yes, and I agree with you to an extent. But I’m challenging you on your point where you said “whatever went on, the parents are responsible for all of it”, which is fcuking absurd. They are to blame for putting their children in risky situations, they owed them more than to do that. They are not responsible for the abuse that took place.
It’s clear to see that he groomed the whole family.

Ok I may have worded it wrong, my point is that if the parents weren’t so blinded by what doors he could open for them financially speaking then the children wouldn’t have been put in the situation. I didn’t mean they were to blame for Jackson abusing them, I meant they were to blame for the situation and for the opportunity to arise in the first place.

100% agreeing that they families were groomed too. However they were adults that should have known better. The children were just that, children. They were betrayed and pawned off by their parents in exchange for holidays, cash and god knows what else. What freaked me out most about the documentary was how relaxed and matter of fact both mothers were about whole thing. I would have thought that with what was being said by their sons that they would condemn it and admit that they were in the wrong. I would have thought that seeing them both admit they ****ed up would have happened in the first 10 minutes.

BorneTobyWilde

If you rearrange letters in ''Wade Robson'' it reads '' A Brown Dose'' full of shiit then?

BorneTobyWilde

fin12 wrote: »

Well Ben was about his pet rat :pac:

Aww we have one song we can gather round and listen to .:D

8-10

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Feels like a fire that burns in my heart
Every single moment that we spend apart
I need you around for every day to start
I haven't left you alone

There's something about you, I stare in your eyes
And everything I'm looking for I seem to find
All this time away is killing me inside
I need your love in my life

I want to spend time till it ends
I want to fall with you again
Like we did when we first met
I want to fall with you again

We fought in a battle, nobody won
And left ourselves a mountain to be overcome
You can't run away, the past is said and done
I need us to carry on

I want to spend time till it ends
I want to fall with you again
Like we did when we first met
I want to fall with you again


Hard to enjoy his songs without wondering what or who he's talking about.

I guess you could ask Walter Afanasieff seeing as he wrote the song before Jackson covered it?

Or was he part of the conspiracy too?

retro:electro

I’ve yet to read one logical reason from his defenders as to why they believe he liked to surround himself with young boys so much?
When you see the footage and the extent of it.. beyond weird.

Stacksofwacks

Having just seen the doc I'm inclined to believe the two men, particularly Safechuck who I found very convincing. But I guess its one of those things where we may never know the full truth. As a Michael Jackson fan myself I found it sad to watch and almost dint want to believe it but I think his star power is so enormous that lots of people dont want to either which is understandable...

BorneTobyWilde

8-10 wrote: »

I guess you could ask Walter Afanasieff seeing as he wrote the song before Jackson covered it?

Or was he part of the conspiracy too?

Cool, as I've always liked Michael version. It's a sweet song.

BorneTobyWilde

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Having just seen the doc I'm inclined to believe the two men, particularly Safechuck who I found very convincing. But I guess its one of those things where we may never know the full truth. As a Michael Jackson fan myself I found it sad to watch and almost dint want to believe it but I think his star power is so enormous that lots of people dont want to either which is understandable...

I watched it too and it can convince, what you need now is some balance to counter what you have been led to believe. Then weigh it up.

retro:electro

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I watched it too and it can convince, what you need now is some balance to counter what you have been led to believe. Then weigh it up.

Toby are you well? You’re over on the other thread saying how you believe the victims

gerbilgranny

retro:electro wrote: »

What is also abundantly clear is how absolutely awe struck those kids were for Michael and would have done absolutely anything to please him. Probably another reason why Michael “preferred” them over the likes of Culkin and Feldman who were established industry stars with regular celebrity attachments and didn’t view him in the same light as a normal run of the mill 8 year old child would. It’s very easy to exploit someone who would do absolutely anything to be in your company.

If you were 47 and had been in a 'mutually exclusive' close relationship with an 'ordinary' person and they cast you aside and you saw that they'd lined up a replacement for you, you'd be in a very fragile emotional state.

If that happened to you when you were a child....well, that's enough for me to find the stories horrifying.

BorneTobyWilde

retro:electro wrote: »

Toby are you well? You’re over on the other thread saying how you believe the victims

Yea, I said I defended Michael up to now, but that the last hour of documentary can convince one it's true. I'm still torn though. I'm was off the fence and on Michaels side, now I'm on the fence.

retro:electro

Fair enough

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Having just seen the doc I'm inclined to believe the two men, particularly Safechuck who I found very convincing. But I guess its one of those things where we may never know the full truth. As a Michael Jackson fan myself I found it sad to watch and almost dint want to believe it but I think his star power is so enormous that lots of people dont want to either which is understandable...

This is where I’m at. We’ll never know for sure but I believed them. That’s all that can be said really. Do you believe them or not?

In real life, I have met some very rabid MJ defenders. Very. :eek: I just leave them to it but I do wonder why they take it so personally.

Call me Al

Jane_Dough wrote: »

Didn’t believe a word of that documentary. The way they spoke didn’t even seem sincere or genuine.

I’m honestly so sick of this sh*t. People coming out of the woodwork years on and when a man is dead and unable to defend himself.

That documentary was a load of nonsense imo.

And yet here I am, no interest one way or another, not a particular fan but liked his music well enough. I was expecting to not believe them and yet i do.
And the more I think about it the more i realise how he just hid it all in plain sight. I think he was a paedophile, and it was obvious.
Nowadays If you were aware of an adult man hanging around and sharing a bed with various pre-pubescent boys what would you think he was doing?

CFlat

If the justice system in America, which is well known to be efficient and ruthless and takes no prisoners, no matter who you are, couldn't prove that Jackson was being inappropriate with children when he was alive, I can't get my head around why people think he is now. Is it just because a couple of lads who look well and speak well say he is?

Don't be fooled by very smart legal counsel who are sniffing around very large sums of money. These lads have been trained within an inch of their lives to put their own interpretation of what happened when they were with Jackson.

Don't believe any of it, not for a second.

BorneTobyWilde

How on earth could this guy in this video harm kids. It's so hard to fathom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxue7Z32TZ4

sligeach

retro:electro wrote: »

He died because he was a drug addict :rolleyes: probably roofing himself was the only way to drown out the fact he molested a loads of kids

You're an obvious MJ hater, it comes across so transparently in your comments. He didn't die because he was a drug addict. He died because Conrad Murray f*cked up. There you go again, "fact"? It's not a fact. He was found not guilty in 2005, which brought up the allegations of 1993. And in 1993, 2 grand juries said there was no case to answer for.

So you've got these 2 proven liars in this completely one-sided assassination of a defenseless dead man. There's plenty of evidence to say they're lying. I'd love to see these 2 take a polygraph test. They've provided no evidence, just a concocted story which is easy to do. And they've got literally hundreds of millions of reasons to make it up, the more graphic the story and the more it went on, the bigger they're hoping they get as a payout in compensation.

They've lodged an appeal against the previous decision by the judge to throw the case out, the judge said that Wade Robson had lied in his witness statement to such an extent that 'no rational fact-finder' could believe his account.

retro:electro

:rolleyes: at least you didn’t bring up Ray D’arcy this time


And yes, because non addicts are regularly given a drug so powerful it’s use is primarily kept for operating theatres with controlled breathing tubes and ventilators for a bit of a night cap. Get real.
He was clearly abusing prescription drugs, like that’s not even up for debate.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

CFlat wrote: »

If the justice system in America, which is well known to be efficient and ruthless and takes no prisoners, no matter who you are, couldn't prove that Jackson was being inappropriate with children when he was alive, I can't get my head around why people think he is now. Is it just because a couple of lads who look well and speak well say he is?

Don't be fooled by very smart legal counsel who are sniffing around very large sums of money. These lads have been trained within an inch of their lives to put their own interpretation of what happened when they were with Jackson.

Don't believe any of it, not for a second.

No legal system gets it right all the time. That’s impossible. We all know of a high profile ‘90s murder case that ably demonstrates that. I find the above argument uncompelling. That ‘90s case also showed us what money and connections can do.

The question of why people speak out about MJ always comes down to “For the money, obvs”. I gotta say, for me, no amount of money would make it worth being hated by millions and millions of people. There is a not inconsiderable strand of MJ fans who are really rabid and I can’t imagine anyone wanting to draw their attention. I don’t think any amount of money would be worth that grief, would it? Who would want that hassle?

ceadaoin.

retro:electro wrote: »

:rolleyes: at least you didn’t bring up Ray D’arcy this time


And yes, because non addicts are regularly given a drug so powerful it’s use is primarily kept for operating theatres with controlled breathing tubes and ventilators for a bit of a night cap. Get real.
He was clearly abusing prescription drugs, like that’s not even up for debate.

Yes, it's widely know and accepted that he was a drug addict at the end of his life. Some people are so wilfully blind it's ridiculous. I honestly hope those people don't have kids if they are so able to deny the obvious and demonise abuse victims

fin12

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

No legal system gets it right all the time. That’s impossible. We all know of a high profile ‘90s murder case that ably demonstrates that. I find the above argument uncompelling. That ‘90s case also showed us what money and connections can do.

The question of why people speak out about MJ always comes down to “For the money, obvs”. I gotta say, for me, no amount of money would make it worth being hated by millions and millions of people. There is a not inconsiderable strand of MJ fans who are really rabid and I can’t imagine anyone wanting to draw their attention. I don’t think any amount of money would be worth that grief, would it? Who would want that hassle?

That 90s case was f*cked up by the police, who tampered with evidence when they didn’t need to. OJ then pulled out the old racism card and that’s how he got off. Found guilty in the civil case.