Can we talk about AH?

Mr. CooL ICE

Like Boom said, that's a standard mod note we use from the old, busier Politics Cafe 1.0 days. It's easily updated.

Kivaro wrote: »

Maybe it's time to stop insulting our intelligence and be honest about the movement of these threads.

What exactly does this mean? Enlighten me.

Kivaro

Politics Cafe is deliberately left in a bad state so the only options are really the Politics or AH forums. It would have been fine to let that particular thread on AH, since it is such an important topic that not only involves politics but massive social and economic issues/questions also.

Many believe that when an AH thread is moved to PC, it is done just to kill the topic. If PC was fit for purpose, then we would have no problem posting there. But for long term posters like myself who have provided feedback and suggestions on various threads about the PC forum, we see thread moves there as just another way to close down the thread and end the discussion. Others may call it just plain censorship.

Mr. CooL ICE

Well I'm all for keeping politics out of AH, with exceptions for really big things like referendums and whatnot. I had a look at that thread and it doesn't strike me as being that major an issue to warrant the same kind of exception, but I know f all about politics so could be wrong.

But closing down discussion and censorship? That's nonsense.

Skylinehead

Kivaro wrote: »

Politics Cafe is deliberately left in a bad state so the only options are really the Politics or AH forums. It would have been fine to let that particular thread on AH, since it is such an important topic that not only involves politics but massive social and economic issues/questions also.

Many believe that when an AH thread is moved to PC, it is done just to kill the topic. If PC was fit for purpose, then we would have no problem posting there. But for long term posters like myself who have provided feedback and suggestions on various threads about the PC forum, we see thread moves there as just another way to close down the thread and end the discussion. Others may call it just plain censorship.

No, AH is not an option. AH threads are moved to PC because they don't belong in AH as per the charter. I have absolutely zero control over what actually happens in the PC once they're moved.

I don't agree with the PC access requirement for what it's worth, I think it's a big reason why the place is dead.

Boom_Bap

I think when Political threads are moved from AH to the Politics Cafe, if folk posted in the threads after they have been moved, then it would stimulate the forum.
We know the access thing is an issue, but if you meet the requirements, then no harm in posting there, if a few done so it will light the fire under the forum that is needed rather than blaming it on AH.

It's pretty odd that the serious politics forum is open, and the casual one requires access. Threads shouldn't really be moved to a place people have less access to.

Cookie_Monster

Nixonbot wrote: »

No, AH is not an option. AH threads are moved to PC because they don't belong in AH as per the charter. .

So what about all the other threads currently there that aren't moved?

Front page below, nearly all of them can be posted in a more relevant place (indeed all could if I could really be bother scouring all the fora more specifically).
I continue to not understand the need to remove current affairs threads to politics or the cafe when virtually no other subject gets booted out...

The rules are very clear:
If there is a more appropriate forum, post your thread there
Do not post here to reach a larger audience

AH Front Page:
Where's the deterrent for shіthead scumbags in society? legal issues
Beaumount Doctor shagging nurse
ISIS people returning thread politics
In my mid 40s... Mid life crisis time?the gentlemens club
Conor Mcgregor arrested again sports / mma
Why do people self-segregate a lot by gender in Ireland? humanities perhaps
A record number of young people aged between 18-35 are single than ever before soc and culture / family
Ireland rejoining the British Commonwealth politics
Anyone else not want children? family
Does James Corden - want to be the next James Bond or something? films
Anyone else enjoy being single? ladies lounge / gentlemens club / both
Places to go on the border? travel
I don't know where we're going, but I know where I am
Have you ever had an online/real life stalker? personal issues
What are ye eatin' and drinkin' foods
Go to first new post Drink driving-virtue signaling gone mad motors, legal or infastruture
Trivial things that make you happy - Part 2 - The Happyning (
Pointless roadside art. motors / infastructure
Things That Trivially Annoy You. ranting and raving

I have absolutely zero control over what actually happens in the PC once they're moved.

thats an easy way to wash your hands of it alright. Why are you only enforcing certain rules and not others? Are there directives in place to only implement some of them?

Mr. CooL ICE

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

So what about all the other threads currently there that aren't moved?

Front page below, nearly all of them can be posted in a more relevant place (indeed all could if I could really be bother scouring all the fora more specifically).
I continue to not understand the need to remove current affairs threads to politics or the cafe when virtually no other subject gets booted out...

The rules are very clear:
If there is a more appropriate forum, post your thread there
Do not post here to reach a larger audience

...

This has already been discussed further back in the thread...

Listen, we have three options; a) move every single thread that could possibly be in another forum to that forum and b) move nothing and leave everything started in After Hours in After Hours and c) c compromise between (a) and (b).

If we go (a) we risk turning AH into a ghost town. If we go with (b) we risk the rest of the site turning into (more of) a ghost town. In my opinion, as AH mods, we should facilitate discussion in our forum without negatively affecting other forums in the process, therefore we go with (c).

How do we decide what to move and what stays? The aforementioned issue of whether it is topical enough. And that involves a lot of mod discretion. Is it perfect? No, but it's the best we got. And if you have a better suggestion, I'm all ears.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

thats an easy way to wash your hands of it alright.

Well, we literally can't do anything about it. We don't have the ability to lock/unlock threads that aren't in a forum we moderate.

Timberrrrrrrr

Mark Rippetoe wrote: »

This has already been discussed further back in the thread...

Listen, we have three options; a) move every single thread that could possibly be in another forum to that forum and b) move nothing and leave everything started in After Hours in After Hours and c) c compromise between (a) and (b).

If we go (a) we risk turning AH into a ghost town. If we go with (b) we risk the rest of the site turning into (more of) a ghost town. In my opinion, as AH mods, we should facilitate discussion in our forum without negatively affecting other forums in the process, therefore we go with (c).

How do we decide what to move and what stays? The aforementioned issue of whether it is topical enough. And that involves a lot of mod discretion. Is it perfect? No, but it's the best we got. And if you have a better suggestion, I'm all ears.

Well, we literally can't do anything about it. We don't have the ability to lock/unlock threads that aren't in a forum we moderate.

Open PC to all users, take away the subscribe rule, it has killed PC and in turn kills off perfectly good threads.

I know it was done to stop re-reg trolls but has it stopped them? They re-reg anyway and post in other fora that are open so no it hasn't stopped them, what it has done is kill PC to the point where it has little/no interest to anyone anymore.

Cookie_Monster

Mark Rippetoe wrote: »

And if you have a better suggestion, I'm all ears.

sure, just leave the political stuff in AH, what difference does it really make, or failing that, fix the cafe as has been repeatedly called for in feedback.

Well, we literally can't do anything about it. We don't have the ability to lock/unlock threads that aren't in a forum we moderate.

no but AH is not.modded in isolation to the rest of the site, raise the issue in the mod forum, maybe it'll make things happen, because constantly raising it in feedback sure as hell hasn't made a difference.

Mr. CooL ICE

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

sure, just leave the political stuff in AH, what difference does it really make

I'm 100% against this.

As for the rest, well that's beyond the scope of AH so nothing I can offer there.

Boom_Bap

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

sure, just leave the political stuff in AH, what difference does it really make, or failing that, fix the cafe as has been repeatedly called for in feedback.
no but AH is not.modded in isolation to the rest of the site, raise the issue in the mod forum, maybe it'll make things happen, because constantly raising it in feedback sure as hell hasn't made a difference.

When I signed up to be a mod of AH, it was not to try moderate squabbles between users with different political angles/agendas.
I don't know how many times I was told that my political stance is making me bias in my moderation....I don't even have a political stance


I'm sure that transcends to the other mods. The mods that I was involved in the selection process of for AH where not picked because of how they would handle a political discussion.


Leaving the political stuff there means changing how the forum is moderated just when I can see that the changes from feedback have been made and improving AH in general now.

Timberrrrrrrr

Boom_Bap wrote: »

When I signed up to be a mod of AH, it was not to try moderate squabbles between users with different political angles/agendas.
I don't know how many times I was told that my political stance is making me bias in my moderation....I don't even have a political stance


I'm sure that transcends to the other mods. The mods that I was involved in the selection process of for AH where not picked because of how they would handle a political discussion.


Leaving the political stuff there means changing how the forum is moderated just when I can see that the changes from feedback have been made and improving AH in general now.

What changes and how have they improved AH?

end of the road

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

sure, just leave the political stuff in AH, what difference does it really make, or failing that, fix the cafe as has been repeatedly called for in feedback.

the thing is and i have mentioned it before, the charter in ah actually specifically prohibits political threads in ah, whereas it doesn't have a specific rule on other topics all be it they are covered by the don't post here to reach a wider audience etc. so technically, in my view at least, the charter is actually being breached by allowing such threads currently.
now i have absolutely no issue with such threads being in ah, but i think to give greater clarity and allow actual mod descretion to be used, the section of the charter which prohibits them is going to need to be changed or removed. perhapse removed altogether upon which the rule in relation to posting in a more appropriate forum should be enough to cover the issue.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

no but AH is not.modded in isolation to the rest of the site, raise the issue in the mod forum, maybe it'll make things happen, because constantly raising it in feedback sure as hell hasn't made a difference.

i would agree with this tbh. at this stage the mods themselves stepping in and raising the issue via their channels if they aren't doing it already couldn't do any harm. it may not bring results either but it would be worth a try at least as currently very few seem to be happy with the set up.

Boom_Bap

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

What changes and how have they improved AH?

Well there are more mods, so things are being acted on quicker.
There is more explanation in closing/moving threads....well threads aren't being closed frequently that I see which was a huge bugbear in the feedback.


Actions are transparent, by the looks of things, the number of threads started in DRP on the back of AH are not so frequent.



The general tone of AH seems to be better these days, I can't give metrics for that, but as a user of the forum it's a nicer place to be posting in now....but that's probably down the the attitude of the community.


They are just my observations.

Timberrrrrrrr

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Well there are more mods, so things are being acted on quicker.
There is more explanation in closing/moving threads....well threads aren't being closed frequently that I see which was a huge bugbear in the feedback.


Actions are transparent, by the looks of things, the number of threads started in DRP on the back of AH are not so frequent.



The general tone of AH seems to be better these days, I can't give metrics for that, but as a user of the forum it's a nicer place to be posting in now....but that's probably down the the attitude of the community.


They are just my observations.

But there isn't really hence why we are back here having the same discussion that has been had over and over.

Threads (usually political) are moved from AH and dumped in the nuclear waste zone that is P.C. very little explaining if any other than the standard "moved to.P.C" The thread is then as good as finished as P.C has a very small footfall of posters due to the ridiculous access rule! It was bought in to try and make P.C a better place to post and it has failed miserably.

A decision now needs to be made to either open P.C to all or close it down because moving threads into it isn't helping anyone.

Boom_Bap

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

But there isn't really hence why we are back here having the same discussion that has been had over and over.

Threads (usually political) are moved from AH and dumped in the nuclear waste zone that is P.C. very little explaining if any other than the standard "moved to.P.C" The thread is then as good as finished as P.C has a very small footfall of posters due to the ridiculous access rule! It was bought in to try and make P.C a better place to post and it has failed miserably.

A decision now needs to be made to either open P.C to all or close it down because moving threads into it isn't helping anyone.

So it's an issue with PC, not with AH?

Gimme A Pound

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Aaaah, that’s not quite what happened. I was surprised at how quickly that thread focused on women. We’re talking in ten posts or fewer, before the obvious re-regs showed up. When I first saw the thread pop up in AH, I was looking forward to forum members analysing the topic and seeing where both genders were going wrong. It could have been really interesting. But we didn’t even get halfway down the first page before the posts started focusing on women and their part in it all. The re-regs hadn’t shown up by that stage or even for a while after. From what I can see, many of the obvious re-reg troll posts have been removed and the bias is still there to see.

I’m not that bothered by it, as I said upthread. It’s likely something to do with boards membership skewing male. We all tend to see problems as they affect us personally and most men replying are likely straight. But saying that what’s been observed in that thread is just down to those re-reg trolls is a tad disingenuous.

Same descent on this thread. You could set your bloody watch to it.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057969717&page=5

Timberrrrrrrr

Boom_Bap wrote: »

So it's an issue with PC, not with AH?

It's an issue with AH threads being moved to PC and the threads then dying off.

Kivaro

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Open PC to all users, take away the subscribe rule, it has killed PC and in turn kills off perfectly good threads.

After discussing the PC issue ad nauseum on various feedback threads, this seems to be the only solution. Either that, or just nuke it and put it out of its misery.

If PC was opened up again and modded impartially, then AH could go back to the merry, blood pressure reliever that it once was. Get the serious threads out of AH, and let's go back to having threads like the first time a dog tried to hump your leg while kneeling at mass .......... in the front row of a packed church. (I actually saw that happen and wondered if it was a "sign").

Dial Hard

Arely Dazzling Sidecar wrote: »

Same descent on this thread. You could set your bloody watch to it.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057969717&page=5

I was literally just coming in to post that. It's be funny if it wasn't so depressing.

Also, the double standards are actually mind-boggling. The usual crap of how the state is complicit in financially punishing men in the case of marriage breakdown was being bandied about, I posted my experience of that absolutely not being the case, and I just got called stupid (by a man, natch) for not taking my ex to the cleaners.

There is literally no "correct" position for women to take as far as some posters are concerned.

.......

Arely Dazzling Sidecar wrote: »

Same descent on this thread. You could set your bloody watch to it.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057969717&page=5

+1

Plenty of generalisations about De Wimmins financially crippling De Mens - and guess what - even being celebrated for it!

Some of those posters are living in a strange alien reality where women are out to get them.

SusieBlue

Arely Dazzling Sidecar wrote: »

Same descent on this thread. You could set your bloody watch to it.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057969717&page=5

Its getting really old at this stage. So predictable.

dulpit

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

It's an issue with AH threads being moved to PC and the threads then dying off.

That's an issue for PC. If the thread doesn't belong in AH, moving it is correct approach.

A similar example: if a thread was posted in the TV forum talking about a recent soccer match, that should be moved to the soccer forum. Whether the conversation is continued in the soccer forum is an issue for that forum, not the TV forum mods.

Timberrrrrrrr

dulpit wrote: »

That's an issue for PC. If the thread doesn't belong in AH, moving it is correct approach.

A similar example: if a thread was posted in the TV forum talking about a recent soccer match, that should be moved to the soccer forum. Whether the conversation is continued in the soccer forum is an issue for that forum, not the TV forum mods.

Yep and suddenly a fast moving thread that has many posters showing interest and having a good debate screeches to a halt.

Boom_Bap

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Yep and suddenly a fast moving thread that has many posters showing interest and having a good debate screeches to a halt.

But folk still get the notifications about new posts in threads (depending on settings), it will still appear on the My Threads list, so it should in theory only impact people that don't have the minimum requirements to post or banned posters.

That shouldn't be enough to grind a thread to a halt.

Timberrrrrrrr

Boom_Bap wrote: »

But folk still get the notifications about new posts in threads (depending on settings), it will still appear on the My Threads list, so it should in theory only impact people that don't have the minimum requirements to post or banned posters.

That shouldn't be enough to grind a thread to a halt.

There are plenty of people who wish to post in threadsbut don't/won't post in PC due to the ridiculous access rule. If you want AH to be politics frre then that's fine, move all of the political threads to PC, But if the powers that be want PC to work then they need to swalkow their pride and admit that the access requirements have been a failure and need to be readdressed.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Yep and suddenly a fast moving thread that has many posters showing interest and having a good debate screeches to a halt.

That's a key issue. Is it more important to move every thread to its "proper" place or to have posters deeply engaged in an interesting debate?

Any healthy social site should strive to increase its engagement rate, which is generally regarded as among the most important of all social media metrics. The more people interacting with its content the better.

Boards is the only site I know of that actively tries to decrease engagement with interesting content by shuttling it off to backwater forums where it will die an instant death.

Boom_Bap

OK, so again, this is about PC, not AH.


I'm on the side of having the restrictions lifted, I think that it should have been a temporary thing.

I think that we can all agree that it went mental before it was rebranded so something needed to be done.


But AH should not 'suffer' due to that protest of the access rule

Timberrrrrrrr

Boom_Bap wrote: »

OK, so again, this is about PC, not AH.


I'm on the side of having the restrictions lifted, I think that it should have been a temporary thing.

I think that we can all agree that it went mental before it was rebranded so something needed to be done.


But AH should not 'suffer' due to that protest of the access rule

It's really about both as the issues for both fora overlap due to the no politics rulle in AH and the access restrictions in PC