Can we talk about AH?

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Did you miss all the youtube links?

I see you've retreated from the sweeping claim that "There is quite a lot of outright racism, white supremacy being pushed in AH right now..." and are now down to citing allegedly racist YouTube links posted by one poster whom you want to see banned because you disagree with his views.

TheValeyard

If we're talking about racism, bigotry, white supremacy, etc.....reregs or trolls do not count towards a problem, as thats simply what they want to do.

supersaint3

I personally hate AH and I'd like to know can I block it from showing up on the boards home screen as it clutters a third of it up when I log on looking for a bit of entertainment or interest.

To me it seems entirely political, not topical, and everything seems to descend into latent right wing winks and nods

Boom_Bap

You can't simply ban someone because they are racist. If someone is screaming from the hilltops about how awesome they are and spouting racist drivel, then yes, there are sanctions.

But in that thread, there are views being expressed not in an aggressive way that I can see (i should add that I'm not reading the article or watching the vids), there are posters baiting the person to divulge more, there are posters throwing labels around at people and trying to define who they are and their stance and put them into a box.

That's the low point of the thread, there shouldn't be baiting, and there shouldn't be personal attacks on people because of their side if they are conducting themselves in a decent manner no matter what the view is.
And there certainly shouldn't be any doxxing either.

riffmongous

Boom_Bap wrote: »

You can't simply ban someone because they are racist. If someone is screaming from the hilltops about how awesome they are and spouting racist drivel, then yes, there are sanctions.

But in that thread, there are views being expressed not in an aggressive way that I can see (i should add that I'm not reading the article or watching the vids), there are posters baiting the person to divulge more, there are posters throwing labels around at people and trying to define who they are and their stance and put them into a box.

That's the low point of the thread, there shouldn't be baiting, and there shouldn't be personal attacks on people because of their side if they are conducting themselves in a decent manner no matter what the view is.
And there certainly shouldn't be any doxxing either.

Well this is the thing, I'm not watching some crackpot video from a closet racist, in the proper discussion forums it wouldn't be accepted to link dump but in AH you can, so of course people are going to want someone to say what they actually mean rather than hide behind a youtube vid

Cookie_Monster

Boom_Bap wrote: »

this may sound facetious, but it is no way intended in that manner. Yourself and a few others here are not posting it. Why not start, give it the spark it needs, it wouldn't take much for the forum to have a heartbeat again.
It just takes one thread with decent subject matter to get things going again.

I did at first but there is no point now. I also no longer have an interest in posting in such a highly restricted forum.

Skylinehead

Boom_Bap wrote: »

You can't simply ban someone because they are racist. If someone is screaming from the hilltops about how awesome they are and spouting racist drivel, then yes, there are sanctions.

But in that thread, there are views being expressed not in an aggressive way that I can see (i should add that I'm not reading the article or watching the vids), there are posters baiting the person to divulge more, there are posters throwing labels around at people and trying to define who they are and their stance and put them into a box.

That's the low point of the thread, there shouldn't be baiting, and there shouldn't be personal attacks on people because of their side if they are conducting themselves in a decent manner no matter what the view is.
And there certainly shouldn't be any doxxing either.

A user is responsible for their own posts. And if those posts are racist, and are infracted multiple times for such, then it's their own problem if people call them that based on their postings.

WinnyThePoo

Lawson Tinkling Fishhook wrote: »

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Did you miss all the youtube links?

I see you've retreated from the sweeping claim that "There is quite a lot of outright racism, white supremacy being pushed in AH right now..." and are now down to citing allegedly racist YouTube links posted by one poster whom you want to see banned because you disagree with his views.

Your unwillingness to see what's there in that thread is outstanding. I'll give you that.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Lawson Tinkling Fishhook wrote: »

Feel free to post some representative quotes. I don't have time to read through a 177-page thread.

Using the thread search facility would pull up the offending posts in seconds. I mean, do you think people are lying here about these posts being made?

OldMrBrennan83

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Using the thread search facility would pull up the offending posts in seconds. I mean, do you think people are lying here about these posts being made?

The search facility. On this website.

Boom_Bap

Nixonbot wrote: »

A user is responsible for their own posts. And if those posts are racist, and are infracted multiple times for such, then it's their own problem if people call them that based on their postings.

Totally agree that a user is responsible for what they post.
I don't agree with a group of users grabbing their pitchforks around that user, pulling out posting history from other threads/forums, baiting them into saying more and more inflammatory stuff so that they can gather up more wagons for the circling.


That's just simply bullying.



FYI - I'm not defending or attacking anyone on that thread, it's just how I see it looking at it from what I hope is a neutral perspective

Timberrrrrrrr

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Totally agree that a user is responsible for what they post.
I don't agree with a group of users grabbing their pitchforks around that user, pulling out posting history from other threads/forums, baiting them into saying more and more inflammatory stuff so that they can gather up more wagons for the circling.


That's just simply bullying.



FYI - I'm not defending or attacking anyone on that thread, it's just how I see it looking at it from what I hope is a neutral perspective

Sounds like the prison threads

batgoat

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Totally agree that a user is responsible for what they post.
I don't agree with a group of users grabbing their pitchforks around that user, pulling out posting history from other threads/forums, baiting them into saying more and more inflammatory stuff so that they can gather up more wagons for the circling.


That's just simply bullying.



FYI - I'm not defending or attacking anyone on that thread, it's just how I see it looking at it from what I hope is a neutral perspective

Problem is, certain posters tend to claim certain things as a fact. When asked to back it up, they come out with incredibly dodgy sources. Think it's reasonable to call out such sources for what they are, particularly when they're edging around what their views are. Implying themselves to be moderate even.

Boom_Bap

batgoat wrote: »

Problem is, certain posters tend to claim certain things as a fact. When asked to back it up, they come out with incredibly dodgy sources. Think it's reasonable to call out such sources for what they are, particularly when they're edging around what their views are. Implying themselves to be moderate even.

I don't believe there is any rule in AH to back anything up or provide sources


The problem I see is when there are more than 1 person doing this on thread, repeatedly, it's dragging the thread off topic completely and focusing on a user rather than a topic.

osarusan

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

If we're talking about racism, bigotry, white supremacy, etc.....reregs or trolls do not count towards a problem, as thats simply what they want to do.

They are a big part of the problem though.

They survive for weeks or months on occasion, racking up dozens or even hundreds of trolling, disruptive posts before they are banned yet again.

Everybody knows they are a re-reg straight away, including admin I'm sure, but they don't officially tick enough 're-reg' boxes quite yet, so they stay until they finally do tick those boxes, and end up in prison being asked how many previous accounts they have had on the site.

Skylinehead

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Totally agree that a user is responsible for what they post.
I don't agree with a group of users grabbing their pitchforks around that user, pulling out posting history from other threads/forums, baiting them into saying more and more inflammatory stuff so that they can gather up more wagons for the circling.


That's just simply bullying.



FYI - I'm not defending or attacking anyone on that thread, it's just how I see it looking at it from what I hope is a neutral perspective

Their own opinions on that very thread are feeding straight into it. Can't expect not to get called up on some pretty reprehensible stuff.

Dial Hard

Boom_Bap wrote: »

You can't simply ban someone because they are racist. If someone is screaming from the hilltops about how awesome they are and spouting racist drivel, then yes, there are sanctions.

But in that thread, there are views being expressed not in an aggressive way that I can see (i should add that I'm not reading the article or watching the vids), there are posters baiting the person to divulge more, there are posters throwing labels around at people and trying to define who they are and their stance and put them into a box.

That's the low point of the thread, there shouldn't be baiting, and there shouldn't be personal attacks on people because of their side if they are conducting themselves in a decent manner no matter what the view is.
And there certainly shouldn't be any doxxing either.

So hang on, what you're saying is that it should be perfectly acceptable to be racist and post racist nonsense, as long as you're polite about it???

TherapyBoy

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

There are people who post on Boards who are anti-everything/pro-everything/somewhere in the middle. It is our responsibility as users of this site to post our opinions without breaking the rules, creating a mess in good threads & making an ass out of ourselves. Not always easy.

Boom_Bap

Dial Hard wrote: »

So hang on, what you're saying is that it should be perfectly acceptable to be racist and post racist nonsense, as long as you're polite about it???

No, people are racists, you can't ban someone for that.
Boards should not be a platform for a racist to spread their hate. There is a difference.

Skylinehead

Boom_Bap wrote: »

No, people are racists, you can't ban someone for that.
Boards should not be a platform for a racist to spread their hate. There is a difference.

Not really. The only way of finding out someone is a racist on boards is by them posting racially objectionable material, which is bannable under the AH charter and the boards TOC. It was ever thus.

Boom_Bap

Nixonbot wrote: »

Not really. The only way of finding out someone is a racist on boards is by them posting racially objectionable material, which is bannable under the AH charter and the boards TOC. It was ever thus.

I haven't viewed the material so no idea how objectionable it is

batgoat

Boom_Bap wrote: »

I haven't viewed the material so no idea how objectionable it is

Two white supremacists are linked to in that thread. One involves outlandish rewrites of South African history. Also includes propaganda about a race war.

Boom_Bap

batgoat wrote: »

Two white supremacists are linked to in that thread. One involves outlandish rewrites of South African history. Also includes propaganda about a race war.

Well then I guess that's a different story.


My original point before it went down this route was about the culture of circling around a poster and continually prodding them which was happening on that thread. Thus dragging it off the topic of the thread and making it personal against a user.

batgoat

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Well then I guess that's a different story.


My original point before it went down this route was about the culture of circling around a poster and continually prodding them which was happening on that thread. Thus dragging it off the topic of the thread and making it personal against a user.

Up until that point, that particular user had made a claim that was repeatedly debunked. When he provided his source, it was a Neo Nazi. So think in general they have a tendency to push incredibly dodgy content in all threads.

Zorya

batgoat wrote: »

Up until that point, that particular user had made a claim that was repeatedly debunked. When he provided his source, it was a Neo Nazi. So think in general they have a tendency to push incredibly dodgy content in all threads.

So.....one particular user, two white supremacy links, a few annoying reregers who spout scutter....BURN THE PLACE TO THE GROUND!!! IT'S INFESTED WITH NAZIS!!! :mad:

Skylinehead

Zorya wrote: »

So.....one particular user, two white supremacy links, a few annoying reregers who spout scutter....BURN THE PLACE TO THE GROUND!!! IT'S INFESTED WITH NAZIS!!! :mad:

Are you following the conversation at all? That's not what's being claimed.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

Zorya wrote: »

So.....one particular user, two white supremacy links, a few annoying reregers who spout scutter....BURN THE PLACE TO THE GROUND!!! IT'S INFESTED WITH NAZIS!!! :mad:

That's pretty much it. It's common for people to charge into Feedback declaring that AH has been taken over by neo-Nazis, only for it to boil down to one poster and a couple of questionable YouTube links.

Earlier in this thread, we had someone declaring that AH was seeing an "extreme penetration of far-right crazies" -- only for it to emerge that he was talking about a grand total of four posters on one thread.

Much ado about nothing, as usual.

Annasopra

Boom_Bap wrote: »

No, people are racists, you can't ban someone for that.
Boards should not be a platform for a racist to spread their hate. There is a difference.

What is the difference?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

The search facility. On this website.

It’s seriously really easy to use. Pop in a keyword and hit ‘Go’. What’s the problem? I use it all the time.

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Totally agree that a user is responsible for what they post.
I don't agree with a group of users grabbing their pitchforks around that user, pulling out posting history from other threads/forums, baiting them into saying more and more inflammatory stuff so that they can gather up more wagons for the circling.


That's just simply bullying.



FYI - I'm not defending or attacking anyone on that thread, it's just how I see it looking at it from what I hope is a neutral perspective

It’s still their own responsibility to not post inflammatory stuff. Literally nobody can make you post that stuff but yourself. It’s up to an individual to not take that bait. Probably everyone here has had someone attempt to bait them at one point or another. It’s a good test of one’s own self-control to come against it occasionally.

batgoat

And it's not exactly a great sign when a person is implying incredibly racist things but not outright expressing them. It's pretty manipulative to imply they're coming from the center ground. If they get outed for that ****, its their own problem.