Banking department

gar112

My sister put her statements forward from ptsb for car finance and told me she has another account in a different bank that she didn't tell them about.
Can they find out about this secret account just by her address alone or is it safe..Thanks in advance.

Atlantic Dawn

Another PTSB account yes, they would have access to them all.

gar112

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Another PTSB account yes, they would have access to them all.

Ok thanks... but the ones in a different bank they cannot??... just thinking about the address.. would be same on two dif banks statements

Atlantic Dawn

gar112 wrote: »

Ok thanks... but the ones in a different bank they cannot??... just thinking about the address.. would be same on two dif banks statements

Different bank like AIB, BOI etc no, however if she had bad debts with another bank they would have access to that information as it's shared between them.

gar112

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Different bank like AIB, BOI etc no, however if she had bad debts with another bank they would have access to that information as it's shared between them.

Thanks.. she has no bad debts with any of them... she just didn't think or want them to know about the other accounts I suppose..
So to clarify they cannot find her other accounts in the diff bank correct...

phormium

If she has signed an application form for a new loan then it is highly likely she has signed an authority to conduct a credit check.

If you mean she has another savings account she didn't tell them about then it won't show on a credit check, if you mean she has another loan it most likely will show up on a credit check.

gar112

phormium wrote: »

If she has signed an application form for a new loan then it is highly likely she has signed an authority to conduct a credit check.

If you mean she has another savings account she didn't tell them about then it won't show on a credit check, if you mean she has another loan it most likely will show up on a credit check.

Thanks.. that's it.. credit check for the car finance she worried about..it's all fine she has good credit etc but she just didn't want to declare the other (secret) dif bank account.
Two separate banks she is in.

Marcusm

gar112 wrote: »

Thanks.. that's it.. credit check for the car finance she worried about..it's all fine she has good credit etc but she just didn't want to declare the other (secret) dif bank account.
Two separate banks she is in.

She’s made a false statement to obtain an offer of finance; this is an offence if done dishonestly.

dennyk

Marcusm wrote: »

She’s made a false statement to obtain an offer of finance; this is an offence if done dishonestly.

Exactly this; if she's she's signed an affidavit to the effect that she has disclosed all materially relevant information about her finances when she's deliberately omitted something, then she has likely committed fraud. That could be a criminal offence, and it may also allow the lender to demand immediate repayment in full if they wanted to, as the loan was given based on deception.

Also, your sister should consider seeking help for her problem if it's bad enough that she thinks it would disqualify her from getting a car loan; they tend to be much less strict about those sorts of transactions than in the case of a mortgage...

coylemj

dennyk wrote: »

Exactly this; if she's she's signed an affidavit to the effect that she has disclosed all materially relevant information about her finances when she's deliberately omitted something, then she has likely committed fraud.

Since when do you sign an affidavit (written declaration made under oath) to obtain a loan from a bank?

There is a specific offence of making a false declaration to obtain motor insurance (S.64 RTA 1961) but if the OP's sister simply wants to grease the wheels to avoid any complications and she intends to repay the loan in full, then there is no intent to defraud and no criminal offence.

Actually supplying false or incomplete information to obtain a bank loan is not a criminal offence unless you can prove the prior intention to defraud i.e. take the money and run. Which is well nigh impossible.

phormium

It sounded more like the OP meant she had another account as well as her ptsb account which I presume is a current account. Not at all clear that the other hidden account is a debt, pretty pointless if it was as it more than likely will appear on credit check.

gar112

phormium wrote: »

It sounded more like the OP meant she had another account as well as her ptsb account which I presume is a current account. Not at all clear that the other hidden account is a debt, pretty pointless if it was as it more than likely will appear on credit check.

Hi.. they're was no intent of a defraud anywhere.. she just didn't want anyone else to know about her secret account as it is just incase she needs to use it for emergencies...I won't go into the kind of emergency she referring too...
She was afraid her partner would find out from this process etc... that's all

Marcusm

coylemj wrote: »

Since when do you sign an affidavit (written declaration made under oath) to obtain a loan from a bank?

There is a specific offence of making a false declaration to obtain motor insurance (S.64 RTA 1961) but if the OP's sister simply wants to grease the wheels to avoid any complications and she intends to repay the loan in full, then there is no intent to defraud and no criminal offence.

Actually supplying false or incomplete information to obtain a bank loan is not a criminal offence unless you can prove the prior intention to defraud i.e. take the money and run. Which is well nigh impossible.

I think you need to read section 7 of Criminal Justice (Fraud & Theft Offences) Act. It requires dishonesty and the desire to make a gain OR cause a loss. It’s possible to make a gain without intending to cause a loss, ie even with an intention to repay. Dishonesty is a lower standard than fraud.

coylemj

Marcusm wrote: »

I think you need to read section 7 of Criminal Justice (Fraud & Theft Offences) Act. It requires dishonesty and the desire to make a gain OR cause a loss. It’s possible to make a gain without intending to cause a loss, ie even with an intention to repay. Dishonesty is a lower standard than fraud.

If I get a loan from a bank by making a false delcaration and I pay it off, there is no 'gain' or 'loss' on either side.

Marcusm

coylemj wrote: »

If I get a loan from a bank by making a false delcaration and I pay it off, there is no 'gain' or 'loss' on either side.

The obtaining of the use of money in circumstances wherein it would not be be advanced is the receipt of a service. Repayment is not a relevant factor.

coylemj

Marcusm wrote: »

The obtaining of the use of money in circumstances wherein it would not be be advanced is the receipt of a service. Repayment is not a relevant factor.

Repayment is a factor because if you obtain the loan with the intention of paying it off, there will be no gain on your side, nor loss on the part of the bank. So there is no offence disclosed.

There has to be an intention of making a gain in order for non or false disclosure to constitute a crime. Getting a loan is a commercial transaction where the terms are agreed by both sides, there is no 'gain' for the borrower in obtaining the loan, unless he does a runner.

7.—(1) A person who dishonestly, with the intention of making a gain for himself or herself or another, or of causing loss to another, by any deception obtains services from another is guilty of an offence.

Marcusm

coylemj wrote: »

Repayment is a factor because if you obtain the loan with the intention of paying it off, there will be no gain on your side, nor loss on the part of the bank. So there is no offence disclosed.

There has to be an intention of making a gain in order for non or false disclosure to constitute a crime. Getting a loan is a commercial transaction where the terms are agreed by both sides, there is no 'gain' for the borrower in obtaining the loan, unless he does a runner.

7.—(1) A person who dishonestly, with the intention of making a gain for himself or herself or another, or of causing loss to another, by any deception obtains services from another is guilty of an offence.

You need to read s2(3)&(4). Obtaining the temporary use of the money can be construed as a gain. The dishonesty issue is whether the non disclosure relates to whether the money would never have been advanced if full disclosure was made.