The Brits

Cina

Perifect wrote: »

I did get the facts right! You can't just ignore that every agreement involving Northern Ireland was done under the threat of extreme violence. All of Ireland was occupied, now it's just 6 counties that are occupied.

Northern Ireland is not occupied by the UK. Claim it all you want but you are wrong.

If you want a proper example of occupation then look up Crimea.

tayto lover

Worked in London for years and never had a problem with them.
You usually reap what you sow.

cgcsb

Aegir wrote: »

for starters the UK has around the same levels of social mobility as Ireland. This is the country where the son of a Pakistani immigrant who drove a bus for a living, can go on to become Home Secretary. His opposite number is the daughter of Jamaican immigrants who went in to politics after attending the world's top ranked university.

So you are saying that race isn't a barrier to social mobility. I never claimed it was. What is a barrier is socio economic class.

Aegir wrote: »

45% of 25 to 54 year olds have completed tertiary education. This ranks higher than the EU average of 34%, although in fairness, it is behind Ireland.

No access to higher education my arse

Ignoring my point. There's access to education, but only for the middle to upper middle class and above, and lately the middle class is even struggling to gain access as costs have been balooning.

Aegir wrote: »

The House of Lords is no more an old boys club than the Senate is and has no powers of veto.

Anti democratic my arse

So what's it for then? it's basically the men's shed for people who think their entitled to not be in the job centre.

Aegir wrote: »

The UK has a constitution, that's why the system of government is called a constitutional monarchy. What is isn't though, it written down in any one place.

No Constitution my arse

:rolleyes: The UK has a constitution, it just hasn't written it down. :rolleyes: This isn't count down. So they don't have a constitution the government can simply do as it choses without poopular vote.

Aegir wrote: »

Divide between the haves and the have nots? yeah, that is worryingly high and needs to be addressed. There will always be a divide and on paper it will always look high in the UK,because for there are some very very very rich people who live there, or at least, have residences there.

First past the post isn't good, but i don't think the Irish system is particularly good either. It just leads to populist politicians having a far bigger influence than they should have. It also means parties rarely have the political capital to force through necessary policies. Water charges being the perfect example.

I'm not sure what the perfect system is, but neither is, as you call it, anti democratic.

So basically you agree with my post but just wanted to say it was rubbish for the sake of confrontation.

gozunda

gozunda wrote:

...So why the recent run on Irish passports...'?

Aegir wrote: »

...

it too time, but the crazies always get here eventually

Ahh here now - no need to call the Brits 'crazies'

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

In fairness, nobody should ever go to Kilburn.

There's no point now the National is closed

Berserker

DaeryssaOne wrote: »

Have no problem at all with Brits unless I'm on holiday and I hear a group of them enter the restaurant/pub I'm in. I presume that's purely because I can understand what they're banging on about so loudly whereas if they were French / Spanish I wouldn't even notice them.

Are you sure they are not Irish. The Irish are as loud and annoying as anyone when they are "having the craic", you have to admit.

Cina wrote: »

Who exactly are these occupiers?

Northern ireland chose to be a part of the UK. They are not forced to anymore. They are not occupied by the UK army anymore. They choose it. They can leave any time they want as part of the GFA.

Yep and the citizens of the RoI gave up any claim on that land a few decades ago.

Perifect

Aegir wrote: »

nope sorry, I now officially have no ****ing clue what you are talking about

The majority of Irish people like and get on well with British people. The majority of Irish people don't like the actions of the British armed forces. You and others conflate these issues. Hope that's simple enough for you.

Perifect

Cina wrote: »

Northern Ireland is not occupied by the UK. Claim it all you want but you are wrong.

If you want a proper example of occupation then look up Crimea.

Did the UK not occupy Ireland 100 years ago?

cgcsb

Cina wrote: »

Choose*. Present tense.

That was a typo.

I'm aware of the history, Christ.

Ah grand, so after Russia identified a region of the Ukraine with a sufficient number of ethnic Russians to administer it for them they forcibly draw a line around these ethnic Russians and occupy it then give those ethnic Russians, within that line they drew to their benefit, a vote on whether or not they want to remain in Russian occupation or not?

Ireland ought to invade Meryside, and draw a line around the region in which we can establish an ethnic Irish majority, who will surely be loyal to the republic, then give them a vote on what state they want to be a part of. Totally fair, right?

cgcsb

Cina wrote: »

Northern Ireland is not occupied by the UK. Claim it all you want but you are wrong.

If you want a proper example of occupation then look up Crimea.

They're almost identical situations. Also see Turkey and Northern Cyprus. Turkey and Russia read the British Standard Annexation Manual, focusing on regions of strategic interest.

armaghlad

Berserker wrote: »

Speaks volumes about the republican community in Derry/Londonderry, to be respectful to both communities, if that's their reaction. Not capable of disagreeing with someone verbally, I'm guessing.

I’d say your average Catholic/Nationalist would also hit you a box, you know, given the time of year that’s in it when you come out with such bile. Then again I suspect you to be a westbrit and therefore completely ignorant to anything going on in the north of this country.

Berserker

Perifect wrote: »

Did the UK not occupy Ireland 100 years ago?

Nope, not unless you think a democratic decision is a form of occupation.

cgcsb

Berserker wrote: »

Nope, not unless you think a democratic decision is a form of occupation.

Are you joking? Only protestant land owners could vote.

Perifect

It's sad the way my great thread has gone. British people have got upset because some people were critical of the actions of their armed forces. They didn't take notice of the numerous posters stating their like for British people.

Perifect

Berserker wrote: »

Nope, not unless you think a democratic decision is a form of occupation.

A vote under the threat of extreme violence is not democracy! This is ignoring the 1918 election of course.

bullpost

Perifect wrote: »

It's sad the way my great thread has gone. British people have got upset because some people were critical of the actions of their armed forces. They didn't take notice of the numerous posters stating their like for British people.

Not a bad return for a clickbait thread though in fairness

Cina

cgcsb wrote: »

Ah grand, so after Russia identified a region of the Ukraine with a sufficient number of ethnic Russians to administer it for them they forcibly draw a line around these ethnic Russians and occupy it then give those ethnic Russians, within that line they drew to their benefit, a vote on whether or not they want to remain in Russian occupation or not?

Ireland ought to invade Meryside, and draw a line around the region in which we can establish an ethnic Irish majority, who will surely be loyal to the republic, then give them a vote on what state they want to be a part of. Totally fair, right?

What on earth are you on about?

All I've said here is that, right now, in the present, the UK does not occupy Northern Ireland.

If anyone can disprove that then feel free to, instead of spouting gibberish and nonsensical "whataboutisms".

cgcsb

cgcsb wrote: »

So you are saying that race isn't a barrier to social mobility. I never claimed it was. What is a barrier is socio economic class.

so the son of a bus driving Pakistani immigrant only made it to Home Secretary because he was the middle class? Social mobilty in the UK is no better or worse than Ireland.

cgcsb wrote: »

Ignoring my point. There's access to education, but only for the middle to upper middle class and above, and lately the middle class is even struggling to gain access as costs have been balooning.

yet it still ranks as one of the highest in europe? currently half of all young people go on to higher education. No half of the people in the UK come from upper middle class families.

cgcsb wrote: »

So what's it for then? it's basically the men's shed for people who think their entitled to not be in the job centre.

no, it is the upper house of the Parliament and is there to ensure checks and balances are in place in the lower house. It can delay legislation and bills, even amend them at times, but can not veto them.

cgcsb wrote: »

:rolleyes: The UK has a constitution, it just hasn't written it down. :rolleyes: This isn't count down. So they don't have a constitution the government can simply do as it choses without poopular vote.

no, because the single undisputed thing in the UK constitution is that Parliament is sovereign. Parliament chooses a government and parliament can vote down that parliament if it loses confidence in it (do you not watch the news).

What Parliament doesn't have to do, is go and organise a massive referendum just because it want's to let two fellas get married

cgcsb wrote: »

So basically you agree with my post but just wanted to say it was rubbish for the sake of confrontation.

I agreed with some of your observations, but the things you held out as facts were simply plain wrong.

Perifect

bullpost wrote: »

Not a bad return for a clickbait thread though in fairness

We all had fun. Except for the Brits and the Irish people who have a British viewpoint (known as west Brits I believe).

armaghlad

Perifect wrote: »

It's sad the way my great thread has gone. British people have got upset because some people were critical of the actions of their armed forces. They didn't take notice of the numerous posters stating their like for British people.

I’d be interested to know what percentage of people actually primarily identify as “British” in the UK. The Welsh and Scottish can be fiercely proud of their nationality; and apart from Rangers fans I’ve never heard any Scots display any pride at being British. Even in parts of England, people refer to themselves as English not British, or in Liverpool Scouse not English.

Perifect

Perifect wrote: »

(known as west Brits I believe).

HOUSE

Perifect

armaghlad wrote: »

I’d be interested to know what percentage of people actually primarily identify as “British” in the UK. The Welsh and Scottish can be fiercely proud of their nationality; and apart from Rangers fans I’ve never heard any Scots display any pride at being British. Even in parts of England, people refer to themselves as English not British, or in Liverpool Scouse not English.

It's true and even on this thread, we have seen people conflate Britain with England. A lot of people from England think they are Britain!

Perifect

Perifect wrote: »

A vote under the threat of extreme violence is not democracy! This is ignoring the 1918 election of course.

so there was no threat of violence in the 1918 election?

Perifect

Aegir wrote: »

HOUSE

At least now you understand what I was telling you.

Perifect

Perifect wrote: »

It's true and even on this thread, we have seen people conflate Britain with England. A lot of people from England think they are Britain!

no, they don't. Only the Irish make that mistake.

Perifect

Perifect wrote: »

At least now you understand what I was telling you.

how should I, when you seem to have little clue yourself?

Perifect

Aegir wrote: »

so there was no threat of violence in the 1918 election?

Oh yes. Irish people were well aware of the violence Britain inflicted on their country, the threat of more didn't stop them for voting for independence!

Dublin Spur

topper75 wrote: »

I used to have this chip on my shoulder. Then I had to go there for work to SE England.
I lost the chip. Pretty soonish.
They are just like us - same spectrum- same array.

well said - end of thread

Perifect

Aegir wrote: »

no, they don't. Only the Irish make that mistake.

You were actually one of those who made the mistake!

Berserker

armaghlad wrote: »

I’d say your average Catholic/Nationalist would also hit you a box, you know, given the time of year that’s in it when you come out with such bile. Then again I suspect you to be a westbrit and therefore completely ignorant to anything going on in the north of this country.

Firstly, I know plenty of Nationalists and I've discussed this with them with no issue. Nothing much to report on from the nothern part of the RoI, where I live. That might change when Brexit kicks in and we have Irish soldiers manning the border between ourselves and the UK on this island.

Perifect wrote: »

It's sad the way my great thread has gone. British people have got upset because some people were critical of the actions of their armed forces. They didn't take notice of the numerous posters stating their like for British people.

I'm not upset at all. I know that the heavy majority of people on the island of Ireland are great people. Time and time again, the minority of crooked minded republicans, with anti-British chips on their shoulders, try to stir up trouble but I have always and will always look upon them as a stain on the decent majority on this island. Love the Irish myself, as a rule.

Perifect

Aegir wrote: »

how should I, when you seem to have little clue yourself?

You tried to conflate people being anti British armed forces with being anti British. It failed.

Perifect

Berserker wrote: »

Firstly, I know plenty of Nationalists and I've discussed this with them with no issue. Nothing much to report on from the nothern part of the RoI, where I live. That might change when Brexit kicks in and we have Irish soldiers manning the border between ourselves and the UK on this island.



I'm not upset at all. I know that the heavy majority of people on the island of Ireland are great people. Time and time again, the minority of crooked minded republicans, with anti-British chips on their shoulders, try to stir up trouble but I have always and will always look upon them as a stain on the decent majority on this island. Love the Irish myself, as a rule.

Anti British armed forces does not equate to being anti British.

armaghlad

Berserker wrote: »

Firstly, I know plenty of Nationalists and I've discussed this with them with no issue. Nothing much to report on from the nothern part of the RoI, where I live. That might change when Brexit kicks in and we have Irish soldiers manning the border between ourselves and the UK on this island.

Good for you. when’s the last time you told people in Derry they weren’t in Ireland?

katiek102010

I lived over there for the last few years and to be honest the majority of white English where we lived were ignorant racists. We were in the south east.

They have got a superiority complex and the lack of knowledge about other countries is unbelievable.

I was constantly met with comments that because I am Irish I was either a terrorist or an Irish Traveller. My son actually got in trouble in school for correcting his teacher on the fact that Ireland is not in the U.K. I had to go to the teacher with a map and explain it to her.

I used to work a lot from home and often we would have to go to a colleagues house to joint work. One of my colleagues still lived with parents and I was the only person not permitted by her parents to go to the house. Her father was a retired army officer and as I was Irish I was not allowed at the property

Lone Stone

sound enough for the most part same us tbh. For the most part they know nothing about ireland from family i have over there, like they know nothing at all given our history.

Perifect

katiek102010 wrote: »

I lived over there for the last few years and to be honest the majority of white English where we lived were ignorant racists. We were in the south east.

They have got a superiority complex and the lack of knowledge about other countries is unbelievable.

I was constantly met with comments that because I am Irish I was either a terrorist or an Irish Traveller. My son actually got in trouble in school for correcting his teacher on the fact that Ireland is not in the U.K. I had to go to the teacher with a map and explain it to her.

I used to work a lot from home and often we would have to go to a colleagues house to joint work. One of my colleagues still lived with parents and I was the only person not permitted by her parents to go to the house. Her father was a retired army officer and as I was Irish I was not allowed at the property

I think the British education system leaves a lot to be desired. There's also no doubt that racism played quite a big part in the whole Brexit thing and is something that is an undercurrent in English society especially.

Perifect

Perifect wrote: »

You were actually one of those who made the mistake!

No, I wasn't. you just aren't bright enough to realise that.

Perifect

Aegir wrote: »

No, I wasn't. you just aren't bright enough to realise that.

It was way back when I whoosed you. Remember?

Perifect

Perifect wrote: »

It was way back when I whoosed you. Remember?

No, I remember. You didn't get it then and you still don't.

but not to worry.

Perifect

Aegir wrote: »

No, I remember. You didn't get it then and you still don't.

but not to worry.

That's how I whoosed you! I'm a step ahead and you don't even realise it. Hilarious.

Lefty Bicek

katiek102010 wrote: »

I lived over there for the last few years and to be honest the majority of white English where we lived were ignorant racists. We were in the south east.

They have got a superiority complex and the lack of knowledge about other countries is unbelievable.

I was constantly met with comments that because I am Irish I was either a terrorist or an Irish Traveller. My son actually got in trouble in school for correcting his teacher on the fact that Ireland is not in the U.K. I had to go to the teacher with a map and explain it to her.

I used to work a lot from home and often we would have to go to a colleagues house to joint work. One of my colleagues still lived with parents and I was the only person not permitted by her parents to go to the house. Her father was a retired army officer and as I was Irish I was not allowed at the property

Not believable.

steddyeddy

Aegir wrote: »

so there's no social mobility and no access to third level education in the UK?

No offence A but you're using a strawman here.

If people suggest that social mobility is better in Ireland than England they're not suggesting there's no social mobility in England. Just Ireland has more. You're confusing degrees of social mobility with absolutes.

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

No offence A but you're using a strawman here.

If people suggest that social mobility is better in Ireland than England they're not suggesting there's no social mobility in England. Just Ireland has more. You're confusing degrees of social mobility with absolutes.

I highlighted the parts I was responding to

cgcsb wrote: »

Well people are people first of all. After that I hadn't ever given them much thought until about 2 years ago, I've only ever been to London twice or 3 times and one weekend in Manchester. Never been to Scotland or Wales. The more I come to understand the country, it's people and governmental structure, the more I doubt their technical ability to self govern. They seem to have let the gap between the haves and have nots get way too big, social mobility is non existent, higher education is unattainable and the uneducated are fed a diet of unchecked nonsense in the tabloids, hence we have Brexit. Their political system is anti-democratic, they have a rich old man's club, the 'house of Lords' that basically can veto as it wishes. There is no constitution and there is only a basic first-past-the post voting system. On top of that the political system is basically a 2 party one, hence there is a large spectrum of ideology within the 2 parties, so you never really get what you vote for.

Mad_maxx

Thomas_IV wrote: »

Well, remember your words when Trump is running the show in the UK and dictates them the Terms and conditions of the post-Brexit trade deals between the USA and the UK. But being the poodle of the Americans has by now a long standing tradition since 1914. The Brits look up to the Americans and the Americans look down on the Brits, always depending on who's the US President and who's the UK PM.

Right, there's no way for returning to empire cos that is by now impossible.

The U. S is always the senior party in any relationship so I wouldn't snigger at the brits for that one, they are americas closest ally by a distance after Israel

Johnny Red Cab

It is amazing the lack of knowledge the average Brit has about Ireland and it's recent history.

Steve F

Johnny Red Cab wrote: »

It is amazing the lack of knowledge the average Brit has about Ireland and it's recent history.

Yep agree with that...and I'm a Brit

FrancieBrady

Aegir wrote: »

Why is someone so insecure they have to start a thread about a different nationality I'll never know.

Says the poster with an alarm in his house that goes off if anyone criticises the \british or an aspect of Britishness on d'internet.

cgcsb

Perifect wrote: »

I think the British education system leaves a lot to be desired. There's also no doubt that racism played quite a big part in the whole Brexit thing and is something that is an undercurrent in English society especially.

Even English adults tend to believe that the 'commonwealth' is a collection of countries who are their 'friends' this must be the result of some happy clappy version of history they are taught. This has impacted the current Brexit shambles. All the Brexiteers are stone cold convinced that India and Canada are rushing to their aid any day now.

cgcsb

steddyeddy wrote: »

No offence A but you're using a strawman here.

If people suggest that social mobility is better in Ireland than England they're not suggesting there's no social mobility in England. Just Ireland has more. You're confusing degrees of social mobility with absolutes.

I gave up that argument as it was a simple case of statements that are generally true being refuted by singular examples :rolleyes:

cgcsb

Anyway in short, they're ok, like everyone on an individual level, but in terms of British society, they need to have a serious look in the mirror and consider the direction they're going.

The class warfare is very real, the lower middle classes punctuate every second sentence with some put down about people on 'benefits' despite having one of the world's lowest rates of unemployment and a much leaner social welfare system than anywhere else in Northern Europe.

Culturally they're also one of the more stubborn peoples of the developed world, probably not as stubborn as Austrians/Baraians mind but this combined with their class system creates a very toxic atmosphere.

It's now gotten to the extreme where Brexit has given interclass warfare a new battleground, and this spells disaster for them. England is divided and Scotland is probably only a couple of weeks from walking out the door.

Also if this thread served no other purpose it certainly exposed the fifth columnist 'Irish' posters who, through verbal gymnastics and forgetting key facts, have sought to justify and legitimize the partition of Ireland. Know the enemy within and all that.