PTSB making it harder to dodge quarterly fees

cefh17

cefh17 wrote: »

Told the same today, mentioned I'd satisfied the logdment conditions for both January and February and won't be paying it. Have the account zeroed out so good luck taking it from nothing.

To follow up on this, got a call back from the customer service person to say it was closed now (left the office with her saying she'd look into it) no mention of the fee

Bob24

I honestly don't think PTSB are going to chase anyone for those fees. It was never clear that amount would be due, it is very little money for them (if they have to chase it, doing so would probably cost them more than the value of the fee), and it would piss off people who are closing an account but might have other business with the bank or will be potential new customers again. Essentially it is a waste of time for everyone including for the bank.

alwald

I switched fully to KBC and I have been using Revolut and N26 for a long time already.
I am ready to close my account early next month just after I transfer 1500 EUR to it, what's the best and easiest option to close my PTSB account and saving accounts? and will they seriously ask for 18 EUR to close it if I lodge 1500 or more each month of the current quarter? Thanks.

Closed my a/c in branch yesterday, had already made it zero balance but it showed up with €18 due for fees on closure despite me having lodged €1,500 for January and February. Customer Services Agent rang someone to check this and sounded incredulous with the response she got from the other end; she told me she'd sort it out and then rang a few hours later to say that both she and her manager felt it was unfair so they would refund it on closure. So it was a good outcome in the end I guess; can't fault the Customer Service Agent but if the charge hadn't been refunded then I would be taking it further.

Problem I'm having now is that my Open24 access has already vanished, and after an €8+ phone call (fúck every business that uses an 1890 number tbh) I'm told that because it's not fully closed they can't set me up with a new one, even though I still (for now) have a credit card. :rolleyes: I need access to my last three current a/c statements, and they said if I requested them now there "might be a charge"! But if I wait until the a/c is fully closed (which can take up to two weeks, apparently :rolleyes:) then I can be set up with another log-in.....after another €8+ phone call, presumably!

I never had many problems with PTSB over the past 4 years I've been with them but the past few days have made me glad I'm moving away from them now.

Bob24

alwald wrote: »

I switched fully to KBC and I have been using Revolut and N26 for a long time already.
I am ready to close my account early next month just after I transfer 1500 EUR to it, what's the best and easiest option to close my PTSB account and saving accounts? and will they seriously ask for 18 EUR to close it if I lodge 1500 or more each month of the current quarter? Thanks.

Even if you close it tomorrow I don't think they will as you for any money if you drain the account before closing it. But if you wait until march and lodge 1500, then they have absolutely no leg to stand on to charge you anything, since you will fulfil the requirement to qualify for free fees the first quarter of this year.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Homer, your story is a good reminder that anyone closing their account(s) should remember to download their last view statements before they lose open24 access. I've been assured a final statement in the post. It should include all transactions since my last statement.

alwald

Gracelynn Ashy Alfalfa wrote: »

Homer, your story is a good reminder that anyone closing their account(s) should remember to download their last view statements before they lose open24 access. I've been assured a final statement for all my account in the post. It will include all transactions since my last statement.

Send them a request to access your data as per GDPR, they have 30 days to provide you with everything including statements and/or transaction details.

Bob24

alwald wrote: »

Send them a request to access your data as per GDPR, they have 30 days to provide you with everything including statements and/or transaction details.

They don't have to provide the data in any specific format though, so I guess it depends what the OP is after (if what they want is formated PDF statements lets say to give to a lender for a mortgage application, the bank has no obligation to provide them from free based on GDPR - they could just provide a csv files with the full transaction history).

Ten Pin

Landline number for PTSB for the changes
01 212 4076
https://www.permanenttsb.ie/account-changes/

And all the other numbers including landline options
https://www.permanenttsb.ie/contact-us/contact-numbers/

alwald

Bob24 wrote: »

They don't have to provide the data in any specific format though, so I guess it depends what the OP is after (if what they want is formated PDF statements lets say to give to a lender for a mortgage application, the bank has no obligation to provide them from free based on GDPR - they could just provide a csv files with the full transaction history).

That's correct so it depends on what you are after. I called them last month about it and they didn't even know that they had to provide me with the payments details based on my GDPR request .
They gave me the option to receive them in PDF or CSV so you can chance it as well.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

You can of course request the data via GDPR (should be free but you may incur a small fee). I'd wager most financial institutions will not accept CSV files as a proof of a previous statement :pac:

Gracelynn Ashy Alfalfa

Gracelynn Ashy Alfalfa wrote: »

Homer, your story is a good reminder that anyone closing their account(s) should remember to download their last view statements before they lose open24 access. I've been assured a final statement in the post. It should include all transactions since my last statement.

It's certainly something I'll bear in mind in future, though I didn't think my Open24 access would have been removed when I still have a credit card with them. I know better for next time, I guess.

Bob24 wrote: »

They don't have to provide the data in any specific format though, so I guess it depends what the OP is after (if what they want is formated PDF statements lets say to give to a lender for a mortgage application, the bank has no obligation to provide them from free based on GDPR - they could just provide a csv files with the full transaction history).

I would need them in PDF format, as they're for applying for a new credit card. GDPR never even crossed my mind though tbh.

alwald

Gracelynn Ashy Alfalfa wrote: »

You can of course request the data via GDPR (for a small fee). I'd wager most financial institutions will not accept CSV files as a proof of a previous statement :pac:

There is no fee involved at all. Where did you see this information?

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Jaysus, you guys are tough going sometimes ! You're absolutely correct, I should have said *may* incur a small fee.

The point of my post was to remind people to download their data before closing their accounts. It could save people a lot of time, effort and heartache.

alwald wrote: »

There is no fee involved at all. Where did you see this information?

alwald

Gracelynn Ashy Alfalfa wrote: »

Jaysus, you guys!! Ok, I should have said *may* charge a fee.

The point of my post was to remind people to download their data before closing their accounts. It could save people a lot of time and effort.

It's not authorised to charge any fee when requesting your rights under GDPR, zero, nada, niente.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

That is not technically true. The legislation allows for a 'reasonable fee' to cover administration costs for excessive or large amounts of data.
However, the regulation does not specify what is deemed excessive or large amounts of data.

alwald wrote: »

It's not authorised to charge any fee when requesting your rights under GDPR, zero, nada, niente.

alwald

Gracelynn Ashy Alfalfa wrote: »

That is not technically true. The legislation allows for a 'reasonable fee' to cover administration costs for excessive or large amounts of data.
However, the regulation does not specify what is deemed excessive or large amounts of data.

The fee only applies in case the request is unfounded or excessive, in particular because of their repetitive character.
A normal request to the bank to request your data, including transactions, should be obtained for free. If the bank tries to charge you for this request then complain to the ombudsman.

Here is the text from GDPR in relation to fees:

5. Information provided under Articles 13 and 14 and any communication and any actions taken under Articles 15
to 22 and 34 shall be provided free of charge. Where requests from a data subject are manifestly unfounded or
excessive, in particular because of their repetitive character, the controller may either:
(a) charge a reasonable fee taking into account the administrative costs of providing the information or communication
or taking the action requested;

3. The controller shall provide a copy of the personal data undergoing processing. For any further copies requested
by the data subject, the controller may charge a reasonable fee based on administrative costs. Where the data subject
makes the request by electronic means, and unless otherwise requested by the data subject, the information shall be
provided in a commonly used electronic form.

4. Where requests are manifestly unfounded or excessive, in particular because of their repetitive character, the
supervisory authority may charge a reasonable fee based on administrative costs, or refuse to act on the request. The
supervisory authority shall bear the burden of demonstrating the manifestly unfounded or excessive character of the
request.

Ush1

I'm looking to move and having a lot of hassle trying to open an account with KBC. They weren't getting back to emails and hadn't sent out welcome pack or forms or anything.

I'm looking to merge a single and joint PTSB account into the KBC account(when I finally get it opened). Would the best thing to do be to do the switching with KBC or manually move all DDs over to the new account? There is only a few so shouldn't be too difficult.

howamidifferent

I received my letter from PTSB Jan 24th saying if I did nothing within two months I would be deemed to be accepting the new charging structure from April 1.

I opened an account with KBC Jan 31 and sent in my switcher form to move my direct debits between Feb 15 and Feb 22 when there would be no expected activity on my PTSB account.

I manually transferred my payees and standing orders myself.

KBC have now sent me a letter with a copy of my switcher form returned to them by PTSB saying PTSB could not close the account as it had insufficient money in the account to debit an €18 fee. It contained just €0.15 . I don't believe this fee is justified as I am following PTSB instructions to move within two months.

Any advise on how to proceed here? If I ignore this and move the direct debits myself I assume they set the account to be -€17.85 and then chase me for unpaid fees. Seems ludicrous and illegal to me.

_Kaiser_

I've come to realise in general that PTSB aren't as good as I thought they were when I originally switched from AIB when they brought in this same idea.

I was given a cheque by a contractor as a refund for work they ultimately couldn't do. Because of an error by the contractor (who is also a PTSB customer), the cheque was rejected but *I* was charged a fee.
A call to customer care yielded no results ("it's in the terms") so I lodged it as a formal complaint (why should I pay charges for someone else's issues). For 10 months I got a letter each month telling me they were still investigating and would update next month. I finally get a letter last month basically saying no they won't be refunding the charge and if I don't like it I can appeal to the ombudsman :rolleyes:

Left a very sour taste in my mouth regarding their attitude to service. I'm stuck with them for a few months yet but I'll switch to the Explorer account in the interim and then move out entirely.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

This is going off topic. But you are exactly right and you can be charged. However there is no guidance in the legislation on what is consider excessive or large amounts of data. If I ask for statements going back 15 years. Is that excessive? etc. etc.

What you said was "not authorised to charge any fee when requesting your rights under GDPR, zero, nada, niente", which was and is factually incorrect.

alwald wrote: »

The fee only applies in case the request is unfounded or excessive, in particular because of their repetitive character.
A normal request to the bank to access your data, including transactions, should be obtained for free. If the bank tries to charge you for this request then complain to the ombudsman.

Here is the text from GDPR in relation to fees:

Wheety

Gracelynn Ashy Alfalfa wrote: »

Homer, your story is a good reminder that anyone closing their account(s) should remember to download their last view statements before they lose open24 access. I've been assured a final statement in the post. It should include all transactions since my last statement.

+1

I'm currently in the process of downloading 2 years of statements with UB before closing my accounts.

Beric Dondarrion

Gracelynn Ashy Alfalfa wrote: »

The manager in my local branch was refunding all customers that closed their accounts. There was confusion about the letter stating 1st April apparently. :rolleyes:

Contact your local branch manager and demand a refund of the 18 EUR.

I would also send them a tweet for others to see. Public backlash can do wonders.

Took your advice and went in to the branch where my account was based (brought the letter with me). Talked to the manager and was told that due to the content of the letter (specifically the 1st of April date mentioned in the first paragraph) there was some ambiguity around what this meant. The manager said that the fees would be refunded. I was also told that the charging of fees if you close your account before the end of a quarter was in their T&Cs.

Just wondering if people move to an Explore account before the end of March, will they be hit with this fee on their old current accounts when they close it. Sounds like this is an awful clusterf**k and a PR black eye for PTSB.

howamidifferent

howamidifferent wrote: »

I received my letter from PTSB Jan 24th saying if I did nothing within two months I would be deemed to be accepting the new charging structure from April 1.

I opened an account with KBC Jan 31 and sent in my switcher form to move my direct debits between Feb 15 and Feb 22 when there would be no expected activity on my PTSB account.

I manually transferred my payees and standing orders myself.

KBC have now sent me a letter with a copy of my switcher form returned to them by PTSB saying PTSB could not close the account as it had insufficient money in the account to debit an €18 fee. It contained just €0.15 . I don't believe this fee is justified as I am following PTSB instructions to move within two months.

Any advise on how to proceed here? If I ignore this and move the direct debits myself I assume they set the account to be -€17.85 and then chase me for unpaid fees. Seems ludicrous and illegal to me.

I've contacted PTSB customer complaints department and expressed my dissatisfaction with the attempt to extort €18 from me when I was following the letter and closing my account within 2 months as suggested by the letter. I explained if I stayed till the end of the quarter I would be outside the 2 month window and could be construed to be accepting charges which I did not consent to. I demanded they fulfill my request and adhere to the switcher request form and to bin any attempts to apply any charge to me for leaving or I would be making an official complain to the Financial Services and Pensions Ombudsman. Lady was polite buty clearly flustered about the whole thing. Took my details and told me I will be contacted within 5 days with a response.

Here's hoping they see sense or I intend to follow up.

Ten Pin

I was also told that the charging of fees if you close your account before the end of a quarter was in their T&Cs.

Pity you didn't ask them to point out where it says so in T&Cs. Had a look for it and couldn't see anything specific that allows them to do so. It's impossible to lodge the 1500 into a closed account.

The other option is to wait until 1st March, lodge and withdraw 1500, then there's no justification whatsoever for applying charges.

GenevaW

I followed the advice on the thread and opened two N26 accounts for me and my partner with the intention of closing my PTSB accounts; however, slight issue - it turns out N26 don't do joint accounts I also have two savings accounts with PTSB and I don't think N26 do these either - although it has "spaces", which you could use as savings account (without accumulating interest each year).

Does anyone have any suggestions for a joint account?? I was thinking of opening one with EBS so I'd have a personal account with N26 and a joint with EBS but EBS don't have contactless and it's a hassle having accounts in different places. I had switched to PTSB specially for the free banking so to just start charging makes me determined to move somewhere else!

Any advice appreciated!

JTMan

GenevaW wrote: »

Does anyone have any suggestions for a joint account??

One option is to wwitch product type to PTSB Explore and go with a joint account.

redlead

GenevaW wrote: »

I followed the advice on the thread and opened two N26 accounts for me and my partner with the intention of closing my PTSB accounts; however, slight issue - it turns out N26 don't do joint accounts I also have two savings accounts with PTSB and I don't think N26 do these either - although it has "spaces", which you could use as savings account (without accumulating interest each year).

Does anyone have any suggestions for a joint account?? I was thinking of opening one with EBS so I'd have a personal account with N26 and a joint with EBS but EBS don't have contactless and it's a hassle having accounts in different places. I had switched to PTSB specially for the free banking so to just start charging makes me determined to move somewhere else!

Any advice appreciated!

Well KBC basically have the same conditions for free banking as you used to have with Ptsb. I moved to PTSB for the same reasons as you so am moving to KBC now. I have to say though, the switching process was a lot better with PTSB. KBC seem to take days responding to e mails and then ask for docs you have already sent them. It's really dragging on.

Wheety

GenevaW wrote: »

I followed the advice on the thread and opened two N26 accounts for me and my partner with the intention of closing my PTSB accounts; however, slight issue - it turns out N26 don't do joint accounts I also have two savings accounts with PTSB and I don't think N26 do these either - although it has "spaces", which you could use as savings account (without accumulating interest each year).

Does anyone have any suggestions for a joint account?? I was thinking of opening one with EBS so I'd have a personal account with N26 and a joint with EBS but EBS don't have contactless and it's a hassle having accounts in different places. I had switched to PTSB specially for the free banking so to just start charging makes me determined to move somewhere else!

Any advice appreciated!

I have a joint account with KBC and use N26 as my own account. Extra Current Account, Bonus on Extra Regular Savings Account, discount of 0.2% on Mortgage and cash back on Credit Card.

Think I'll get rid of Ulsterbank Credit Card when closing my other accounts. No point having 2, can just use the join one if I want to buy something.

Seller25

I am looking to move from PTSB aswell and seems that EBS (Money Manager Account) has no charges, except for international transactions. Anyone with them? I am now deciding between N26 and ESB, where ESB have offices in Ireland which seems like an advantage.