PTSB making it harder to dodge quarterly fees

Rock Steady Edy

Will switch the PTSB account to an Explorer Account and instead of taking out €80 cash once a week or so will just put lots of small purchases on the debit card to cancel out the effect of the monthly fee. Seems daft to me but if that's the game they want you to play... I also checked in branch and they confirmed no specific monthly minimum lodgment or balance was required.

Although by default we also have a current account by having switched our mortgage to KBC anyway, I think I'd miss having a cheque book for the occasional electrician / plumber job and a reasonable branch network.

christy c

Did anyone go through the process of closing their credit card? What was involved?

Woshy

ILikeBoats wrote: »

If it's a joint account, do both parties need to be present to switch it over do you know?

Yep! or you'll have to bring the forms home for your partner to sign. We were able to just get it done and dusted there

Keano

christy c wrote: »

Did anyone go through the process of closing their credit card? What was involved?

I'm moving mine to KBC too. They will look after it for me.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

KBC switch done and dusted, no issues once all the documents were sent in. Opened within a few days of the last document being sent in. Very pleased with updates from the support team. Contactless and Google Pay have worked flawlessly the last few days, not a single declined transaction. I would guesstimate 1 in 3 (or 4) of our PTSB contactless payments were getting rejected/declined. I actually stopped using contactless recently as it would get declined so often. Cards were replaced and money in the accounts, so it is some PTSB issue.

Very pleased with the switch, help available very quickly on their helpline.

Trying to move my BOI Credit Card now is proving difficult. Wait times on BOI helpline are ridiculous.

Edit: Thought I would add - I sent a cheque via post at 1pm and I was happily surprised to see it lodged (not cleared of course) into my account the next morning.

Iamhere

I moved from PTSB to KBC over a year ago while their app looks the part it has very limited functionality around standing orders.

You cannot edit an existing SO and at the moment you cannot select a payment date at the end of the month.

Rock Steady Edy

Iamhere wrote: »

I moved from PTSB to KBC over a year ago while their app looks the part it has very limited functionality around standing orders.

You cannot edit an existing SO and at the moment you cannot select a payment date at the end of the month.

Have you found any of the website functionality or other limitations of the bank any worse than PTSB?

Given 1 year of use are there any other reasons you might recommend not to switch, or are you generally happy with the service?

Iamhere

I use standing orders quite often that's why I focused on it.

I still have a PTSB current account as it's one of the old free switcher accounts so can still compare both.

The log in of the KBC app can glitch every few months and you need to ring the helpline to reset, not a deal breaker.

Besides the above the app it good, staff are helpful, I have no great love for PTSB as a bank, if PTSB were going to charge me I'd be of to KBC in a flash!!

Walter Knight

Icsics wrote: »

Regular Saver in KBC is 2.1%

Buy a wheat for all your money and just sow the seeds in April or May in your trusting land. Each seed will give you at least 60-80 wheat seeds in August – September ( on average). It`s 6000-8000% . Do not bother me with petty 2.1% KBC Pee Nuts. I vote for wheat :^))) Disclaimer: It`s not a financial advise. It`s a joke, but one can always find some truth in any joke :^)

Webmechanic

Just set up an account with N26 but when trying to change details with my direct debit with Pure Telecom was told that they only accept 'Irish bank accounts'. Now, I know that SEPA rules mean I'm supposed to be allowed to use any European bank and that SEPA should mean things like direct debits should be enabled to work through BIC and IBAN (Ireland was meant to be fully-compliant by 2014), but do they have a leg to stand on here? Is there anything I can do to force the issue or am I stuck with needing to use a pillar bank for direct debits?

Ten Pin

AFAIK they have to accept any payment account within SEPA. But you'll probably have to lodge a complaint and if they still won't accept it, go to ombudsman, unless anyone else knows a quicker way to convince them to comply.

In the meantime, you could open a basic bank account in an Irish bank to keep direct debits up to date. Or else try the credit union which will probably have online access.

Bob24

Webmechanic wrote: »

but do they have a leg to stand on here?

Legally they absolutely don’t, and if they insist in refusing your IBAN they are in clear breach of SEPA regulation.

Now the process to enforce the regulation in Ireland isn’t great to say the least, and thus they are probably counting on people giving up and not getting their rights enforced.

Webmechanic

To be honest, I signed up with them over the telephone and I can't remember if I had to give my details as BIC/IBAN or account no. and sort code, so I'm not sure if they're operating under SEPA or not. Getting clarity through email (my preferred way of communicating with service companies) is proving to be a little bit like drawing teeth. I'll keep plugging away till I get a complete picture with them but I guess I'll also have to look at another account in the interim for direct debits.

Who is the regulator for this sort of thing anyway?

Bob24

Webmechanic wrote: »

Who is the regulator for this sort of thing anyway?

For consumer complaints, the CCPC is supposed to be your port of call: https://www.ccpc.ie/

The general consensus is that they haven’t been very helpful to people who contacted them though (in my case, they didn’t even even bother coming back to me on my SEPA issue after being chased several times).

Depending on what type of business/organisation you are dealing with, there might also be other entities you can talk to which have oversight on them (for exemple if it is a government body, Solvit and the EC can intervene). With a telco you might try Comreg, but they will possibly tell you that they are not the competent authority for SEPA complaints.

Webmechanic

Pure came back to me just now, they do use IBAN and are going to 'try' and set it up with my new details. I suspect it's a problem with their software having the prefix hard-coded to IE. I'll let you know if it works. Thanks for the help and advice.

Bob24

Webmechanic wrote: »

Pure came back to me just now, they do use IBAN and are going to 'try' and set it up with my new details. I suspect it's a problem with their software having the prefix hard-coded to IE. I'll let you know if it works. Thanks for the help and advice.

Two possibilities from previous experience:
- either the issue is just that their front end software is preventing them from entering a non-Irish IBAN (but their backend systems actually support it). In that case they can if they want address your issue immediately by manually updating you IBAN on the backend (and relatively easily change the front end and lift that restriction in the future)
- or (as was the case with the NTA until recently) their front end takes IBANs but actually converts them to legacy Irish sort codes and account numbers to feed them into a backend system which is not SEPA compliant. In that case there would be no quick fix and accepting non Irish IBANs would mean a complete upgrade/replacement of their payment processing system (i.e. a large project for them)

Webmechanic

Two possibilities from previous experience:
- either the issue is just that their front end software is preventing them from entering a non-Irish IBAN (but their backend systems actually support it). In that case they can if they want address your issue immediately by manually updating you IBAN on the backend (and relatively easily change the front end and lift that restriction in the future)
- or (as was the case with the NTA until recently) their front end takes IBANs but actually converts them to legacy Irish sort codes and account numbers to feed them into a backend system which is not SEPA compliant. In that case there would be no quick fix and accepting non Irish IBANs would mean a complete upgrade/replacement of their payment processing system (i.e. a large project for them)

Hopefully it's just the first as nobody's going to throw extra money into a backend development budget for the sake of one customer. Thought about Revolut but that would just be the same problem with a different prefix and all the extra uncertainties that a British-based bank would bring for the foreseeable future. Might be looking at ESB, KBC or PTSB's Explore account.

Bob24

Webmechanic wrote: »

nobody's going to throw extra money into a backend development budget for the sake of one customer

For the sake of one customer, no. For the the sake of operating within the boundaries of the law, maybe :-)

bonjurkes

Did anyone switch to AIB? I was planning to switch KBC but lack of SO and DD viewing/modifying options and being cashless bank thing turned me off so now I am considering AIB.

I don't mind keeping €2500 in my account but they say it has to be in current account, which means this balance will be available to my debit card and if my balance goes below 2500 by accident they will charge me with maintenance fee. Is there a workaround to keep this money in current account but not available to debit card?

Wheety

bonjurkes wrote: »

Did anyone switch to AIB? I was planning to switch KBC but lack of SO and DD viewing/modifying options and being cashless bank thing turned me off so now I am considering AIB.

I don't mind keeping €2500 in my account but they say it has to be in current account, which means this balance will be available to my debit card and if my balance goes below 2500 by accident they will charge me with maintenance fee. Is there a workaround to keep this money in current account but not available to debit card?

Standing orders are visible/editable with KBC.

Bob24

bonjurkes wrote: »

Did anyone switch to AIB? I was planning to switch KBC but lack of SO and DD viewing/modifying options and being cashless bank thing turned me off so now I am considering AIB.

I don't mind keeping €2500 in my account but they say it has to be in current account, which means this balance will be available to my debit card and if my balance goes below 2500 by accident they will charge me with maintenance fee. Is there a workaround to keep this money in current account but not available to debit card?

I did switch to AIB. For now the one drawback I have found compared to PTSB is that you can’t save non Irish SEPA payees and or make transfers to those payees on the mobile app. You have to do once off transfers on the website and using a card reader, which is a pain if you do it regularily - PTSB is definitely better in that use case.

But besides that no issue - I now have Apple Pay and the app tends to be nicer.

On your debit card question, I don’t know if any practical way of doing that. Maybe ask the bank.

Walter Knight

bonjurkes wrote: »

Did anyone switch to AIB? I was planning to switch KBC but lack of SO and DD viewing/modifying options and being cashless bank thing turned me off so now I am considering AIB.

I don't mind keeping €2500 in my account but they say it has to be in current account, which means this balance will be available to my debit card and if my balance goes below 2500 by accident they will charge me with maintenance fee. Is there a workaround to keep this money in current account but not available to debit card?

Probably you should concider AIB Basic Bank Account : https://aib.ie/our-products/current-accounts/basic-bank-account as there is no minimum amount requirement.The only question for me so far: is it possible to convert the only account that I have into a Basic one. Or I have to close it, open the Basic then, and set up all DD and SO as from new, which is a pain...

Bob24

Walter Knight wrote: »

Probably you should concider AIB Basic Bank Account : https://aib.ie/our-products/current-accounts/basic-bank-account as there is no minimum amount requirement.The only question for me so far: is it possible to convert the only account that I have into a Basic one. Or I have to close it, open the Basic then, and set up all DD and SO as from new, which is a pain...

I see basic bank accounts (all banks have them) being mentioned on a few threads to avoid fees.

I think it should be clarified that they are based on government policies essentially aimed at having banks provide free service for the less well off. So while they are technically available to anyone there are two massive restrictions to target them towards specific demographics: you can’t lodge more than €19,240 per year AND you can’t hold any other current/payment account with any Irish bank.

Those 2 things combined will make them unsuitable for a lot of people.

More about those account here: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/personal_finance/banking/standard_bank_account.html

JTMan

Good point Bob24.

For the record, not all banks have basic current account. EBS don't because their standard product is free. The same seems to apply to N26 and Revolut too.

Iamhere

Wheety wrote: »

Standing orders are visible/editable with KBC.

You cannot edit a standing order online with KBC

Iamhere

Iamhere wrote: »

You cannot edit a standing order online with KBC

correct

Fishy1

Iamhere wrote: »

You cannot edit a standing order online with KBC

Am very confused, as I asked about this in the Talk To KBC forum & got this reply from one of the KBC reps:

Good Morning Fishy1. Thanks for your message. On our online and mobile banking you will have full control to set up and delete standing orders. Direct debits are under full control of the originator so to block or query a direct debit on your account you can free phone our customer services team 24 hours a day on 1800515253 or abroad on 0035316646100. Thank you again. RK

Wheety

Yeah, I was wrong to say editable. You delete and set it up again.

Walter Knight

Bob24 wrote: »

I see basic bank accounts (all banks have them) being mentioned on a few threads to avoid fees.

I think it should be clarified that they are based on government policies essentially aimed at having banks provide free service for the less well off. So while they are technically available to anyone there are two massive restrictions to target them towards specific demographics: you can’t lodge more than €19,240 per year AND you can’t hold any other current/payment account with any Irish bank.

Those 2 things combined will make them unsuitable for a lot of people.

More about those account here: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/personal_finance/banking/standard_bank_account.html

Still no answer to my question Bob24

Bob24

Walter Knight wrote: »

Still no answer to my question Bob24

Actually the answer is in the link I provided I think: "You must not hold another payment/current account with a bank in the Republic of Ireland. If you already have a current account, and your bank has informed you that it will be closed, you are eligible, but you will need to bring proof of this with you when opening a new account."

The way I read it, unless you have no account or your bank has formally informed you that your existing account will be closed, you can't open a basic account. This seems to rule out conversions.

Walter Knight

Bob24 wrote: »

Actually the answer is in the link I provided I think: "You must not hold another payment/current account with a bank in the Republic of Ireland. If you already have a current account, and your bank has informed you that it will be closed, you are eligible, but you will need to bring proof of this with you when opening a new account."

The way I read it, unless you have no account or your bank has formally informed you that your existing account will be closed, you can't open a basic account. This seems to rule out conversions.

Me, and many of us have got the letters informing us that from March 25th2019 ( or another date) our existing accounts will be retired and the account types will be changed. I take it as a closure of my current account. That`s why so many are so “excited” here :^)
Thanks for your input anyway :^)
PS. As they want to convert it into the account type I do not like, I want this account to be converted into the Basic one. As simple as that.
In other words, If they want to tighten my belt, I won`t let them to do it on my neck. Is it fair enough? :^)

Bob24

Walter Knight wrote: »

Me, and many of us have got the letters informing us that from March 25th2019 ( or another date) our existing accounts will be retired and the account types will be changed. I take it as a closure of my current account. That`s why so many are so “excited” here :^)
Thanks for your input anyway :^)
PS. As they want to convert it into the account type I do not like, I want this account to be converted into the Basic one. As simple as that.
In other words, If they want to tighten my belt, I won`t let them to do it on my neck. Is it fair enough? :^)

I got the same letter. The bank is not informing us the account will be closed. It is informing us that a new fee structure will be applied to the account.

You can try to go to PTSB and ask them to convert it into a basic account, but I suspect their answer will be that as per the rules I referenced earlier, since you already hold a current account they have no obligation to facilitate a basic account for you. Now you could just reply to the clerk that in this case you want to close your account with immediate effect and open a basic account immediately afterwards. I don’t think they can say no to that and it might convince them to save the paperwork and simply convert your account instead.

Wheety

Walter Knight wrote: »

PS. As they want to convert it into the account type I do not like, I want this account to be converted into the Basic one. As simple as that.
In other words, If they want to tighten my belt, I won`t let them to do it on my neck. Is it fair enough? :^)

Do you meet the criteria for a basic account? As already stated, you'd need to be getting less than €20k paid into it every year.

Actually Bob24, do you think you're allowed to close your own account and open a basic one? It doesn't sound like it.

You must not hold another payment/current account with a bank in the Republic of Ireland. If you already have a current account, and your bank has informed you that it will be closed, you are eligible, but you will need to bring proof of this with you when opening a new account.

If you could people could use N26 as their main 'landing' account and then transfer upto €370 a week into their basic account. My current 'allowance' is less than that as we use our KBC account to handle salary and mortgage, bills etc.

loki7777

So can you go and convert to basic account - or will you have to first close this account and open another? And is account with credit union counting as current/payment account?

Bob24

Wheety wrote: »

Actually Bob24, do you think you're allowed to close your own account and open a basic one? It doesn't sound like it.

I *think* once you have closed all your existing accounts in Ireland you do qualify for a basic one, as the rules only say that to qualify you need not to hold any other account (I.e. it doesn’t specifically say it’s a problem to have held an account in the past so my understanding is that it is only referring to the person’s current situation).

I believe the phrase you highlighted is meant as an exemption to allow someone who is being kicked out by their current bank to open a new basic account with a different bank and temporarily have 2 accounts as a transition period while the old account is being closed.

All this is just my own understanding of course.

Wheety

I think you may be right. I won't be opening one anyway. My own situation is getting paid into KBC Extra Account (to take advantage of mortgage discount and savings bonus). Then I pay a certain amount to my N26, which has now become my main current account.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

In case it hasn't been mentioned already, the new charges for PTSB have already been applied to customer accounts. I checked this morning in branch and there is 18 EUR already pending on my account for Q1 2019. I am in the process of closing my PTSB accounts.

The manager in branch is manually refunding customers the 18 EUR. I presumed the charges wouldn't start until the 1st April. Absolute chancers.

Ten Pin

In case it hasn't been mentioned already, the new charges for PTSB have already been applied to customer accounts. I checked this morning in branch and there is 18 EUR already pending on my account for Q1 2019. I am in the process of closing my PTSB accounts.

The manager in branch is manually refunding customers the 18 EUR. I presumed the charges wouldn't start until the 1st April. Absolute chancers.

Is it not always the case that the fee is pending until they check that the conditions that apply are satisfied at the end of the quarter (lodge 1500 per month).

Was there a pending transaction in Open24 or only on the banks internal system?

Bob24

Gracelynn Ashy Alfalfa wrote: »

In case it hasn't been mentioned already, the new charges for PTSB have already been applied to customer accounts. I checked this morning in branch and there is 18 EUR already pending on my account for Q1 2019. I am in the process of closing my PTSB accounts.

The manager in branch is manually refunding customers the 18 EUR. I presumed the charges wouldn't start until the 1st April. Absolute chancers.

Similar story here.

I was just at the branch to close my account, and while the balance was 0 on the app before entering the branch, the closing balance in the document I was asked to sign was -18. The clerk told me it’s a service fee which was added and they would get their manager to wave it.

For reference I have transferred 1500 to the account each month including this month, but I guess technically it’s not a full quarter so it is a grey area.

Ten Pin

...just at the branch to close my account

Have you still got online access to any other PTSB accounts?

Bob24

Ten Pin wrote: »

Have you still got online access to any other PTSB accounts?

Nope, I closed the other accounts earlier this month and since I left the branch the App doesn’t let me login anymore.

Walter Knight

..."You must not hold another payment/current account with a bank in the Republic of Ireland. If you already have a current account, and your bank has informed you that it will be closed, you are eligible, but you will need to bring proof of this with you when opening a new accoun"... Hm... It realy sounds like:" We do not need your money... honey" :^) Meanwhile, EBS has the same type of a Basic account, the name of which is “ MoneyManager Account”. And their conditions sound much more welcoming, i.e. :” If you like the look of our MoneyManger account but already have a bank account in place, we can help you switch your account to EBS. The process is smooth and hassle free in line with the Central Bank of Ireland's Switching Code and we'll make sure that any direct debits or standing orders you may have coming out of your current bank account are seamlessly switched to your new EBS MoneyManager account.” Thus, If my bank will insist on conversion into their “ship” instead of the “ship” of my choice :^), I`ll simply go to EBS. :^)

Bob24

Walter Knight wrote: »

Thus, If my bank will insist on conversion into their “ship” instead of the “ship” of my choice :^), I`ll simply go to EBS. :^)

Yep that’s the idea of competition and to be honest I don’t think PTSB did itself a favour by issuing those letters.

But on the other hand in the same way they are not entitled to your custom and you are free to leave if you are not happy with their terms, you are not entitled to them continuously offering terms you are happy with either - and they are free to decide they prefer losing you as a customer to maintaining those terms.

So basically the only thing to do is to ask them if they are happy to convert your account terms to the ones you would like, and leave if you are not happy with their answer and have identified an offering you like better elsewhere.

Walter Knight

Bob24 wrote: »

So basically the only thing to do is to ask them if they are happy to convert your account terms to the ones you would like, and leave if you are not happy with their answer and have identified an offering you like better elsewhere.

But let`s keep in mind a "human factor". What is not allowed by one manager, may be welcomed by another, if conditions are so blur. As if I get Basic account, I won`t have any other, thus I meet the criteria after getting it, and not meet before , or close it, meet it, and get it, wich is less confy, thus makes less sense than convertion :eek:

Bojill

Have to say, happy with the switch to the explore account.
4.50 back from Sky and full 5 euro from transactions.

Beric Dondarrion

Moved my account to KBC because of this change in policy by PTSB. Got hit with an €18 quarterly fee on the remaining funds that were transferred in to the new account.

Was told by PTSB that if you close an a current account mid quarter you are liable for fees regardless of whether or not you meet the criteria that ordinarily prevents you being charged.

Not happy about this and was never told about this by any of the customer service reps I spoke to when the original letter arrived in the post. :mad:

Bob24

Beric Dondarrion wrote: »

Moved my account to KBC because of this change in policy by PTSB. Got hit with an €18 quarterly fee on the remaining funds that were transferred in to the new account.

Was told by PTSB that if you close an a current account mid quarter you are liable for fees regardless of whether or not you meet the criteria that ordinarily prevents you being charged.

Not happy about this and was never told about this by any of the customer service reps I spoke to when the original letter arrived in the post. :mad:

I don’t regret completely emptying my account before closing it. Would have been the same for me otherwise, and no one ever mentioned it either (I just saw the -18 euros balance on the closing balance I had to sign off and asked, but otherwise they wouldn’t have said anything).

Also I would argue that if they are saying that closing the account mid-quarter doesn’t make you qualify for free fees, it is strange to then charge you for the FULL quarter - at the very least they should prorate the charge to the time the account was actually open during that quarter.

Beric Dondarrion

Bob24 wrote: »

I don’t regret completely emptying my account before closing it. Would have been the same for me otherwise, and no one ever mentioned it either (I just saw the -18 euros balance on the closing balance I had to sign off and asked, but otherwise they wouldn’t have said anything).

Also I would argue that if they are saying that closing the account mid-quarter doesn’t make you qualify for free fees, it is strange to then charge you for the FULL quarter.

They might be on a sticky wicket with this due to them not telling customers about this. I spoke at length with a manager this morning and basically said that not once was this mentioned to me when I rang to say I'd be closing my account. No mention in the letter received either.

Will see what happens.....

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

The manager in my local branch was refunding all customers that closed their accounts. There was confusion about the letter stating 1st April apparently. :rolleyes:

Contact your local branch manager and demand a refund of the 18 EUR.

I would also send them a tweet for others to see. Public backlash can do wonders.

Beric Dondarrion wrote: »

Moved my account to KBC because of this change in policy by PTSB. Got hit with an €18 quarterly fee on the remaining funds that were transferred in to the new account.

Was told by PTSB that if you close an a current account mid quarter you are liable for fees regardless of whether or not you meet the criteria that ordinarily prevents you being charged.

Not happy about this and was never told about this by any of the customer service reps I spoke to when the original letter arrived in the post. :mad:

BillieBob101

Beric Dondarrion wrote: »

Moved my account to KBC because of this change in policy by PTSB. Got hit with an €18 quarterly fee on the remaining funds that were transferred in to the new account.

Was told by PTSB that if you close an a current account mid quarter you are liable for fees regardless of whether or not you meet the criteria that ordinarily prevents you being charged.

Not happy about this and was never told about this by any of the customer service reps I spoke to when the original letter arrived in the post. :mad:

I think I will also be completely emptying my account before I close it in that case. Does anyone know if there are any other charges, e.g. stamp duty on a debit card? Trying to figure out if I need to leave a small amount in the account to cover anything like this.