Discovery 2x03 - "Point of Light" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

AMKC

No idea what this weeks episode is about. Just thought I would get the thread started as no one else has.
Not going to get to watch it tonight. Maybe tomorrow or Saturday.

Spear

This seemed oddly unsatisfying, more like a bridging episode to setup later stuff.

Some small advances in the secondary stories, but nothing for the main story arc really.

Tristram

So many potentially amazing things in that episode but jesus the direction and plot was all over the place. What the hell was with the camera angles shifting so rapidly?! I felt carsick watching parts of it.

corkie

Silly and the spore entity? I thought it was the red angel appearing to her?

Slydice

I swear, if Kol-Sha didn't die after all the dishonourable stuff he did, I was gonna explode!

Also, the old school Bat'leth looked cool.

liamtech

Ok i enjoyed that -

The Klingon Part
Great to see the PROPER D7 that we know and love - also the klingons themselves are starting to look decidely more like klingons! they are 'growing back their hair' - i laughed out loud at that

The political elements were decidely Klingon - Kol-sha was definitely very Duras like in his manipulations -

What we could use is some history about how the empire ended up so fragmented, and i actually think we might get that now - Klingons fighting among themselves would explain why the ships all looked so different - etc

Lorrell was pretty cool too - quite politically manipulative herself too!

and of course - the klingon subtitles turning to Klingon and Lorrell speaking english will please a lot of people

The Starfleet Part

Weaker than the klingon story but it was tolerable - the whole SPORE thing in tilly was not very engaging tbh - and i wonder where they are going with it - The intrigue surrounding Spock and him apparently turning to serial killing is a bit - meh - not really interested - i did like Pike preferring the Screen to the Holo-communicator

Section 31

EPIC - i love 31 i find them fascinating - i also enjoy the fact that they obviously have their own ships which are fairly advanced it seems - We could speculate that this continued into the TNG/DS9 era - 31 bring some Realpolitik into the Star Trek Universe - definitely in their interest to keep Lorrell in power while starfleet regroups - and to hell with the prime directive - also 31 did intervene in the Enterprise season 4 episodes involving the Augmentation Virus so none of this is unprecidented

really hope we get that 31 TV show they are talkin about

SO yea overall i enjoyed it!

_Kaiser_

** Now folks, if dissenting views aren't your thing, you might as well skip this post. Fair warning **






So after a pretty decent episode last week, normal service is resumed. Whereas the last episode actually caught my attention and was more in the vein of classic Trek, this one was back to the usual poor fare I've come to expect from this show.

First we get motion sickness inducing jogging/running through the hallways while the lights overhead flicker as if the ship is damaged.. Why? Also, why not just use the holodeck rather than almost running into other crew?
Oh it's because Tilly is in the COMMAND TRAINING PROGRAMME (in case you forgot). That irritant shouldn't even be on the ship, never mind a candidate for future command. Plus more convenient magic tech to deal with her "imaginary friend". Handy, but I suppose they have to give Staments SOMETHING to do these days.

The "Klingons" and Tyler are back, with a reboot around the classic D7 to try and shoehorn this show into canon. At least they look and act more like the Klingons we remember and the switch to English certainly makes their scenes less of a chore but the actors are still having bother with the prosthetics I think? This plot was certainly the strongest part of the episode anyway, but must everything be in badly lit, noisy, almost-cutscenes?

Spock's rebooting continues. Not only is he a mental patient, but now apparently a murderer as well. The scenes with Burham and Amanda were dull and weak which didn't help matters

And Michelle Yeoh returns to provide more skewed fan service with Section 31. Like Tilly I don't get the love for her, but S31 like Q or the Borg are best used sparingly, but hey..


Despite all that, I genuinely think that it's a pity. I actually thought that after last week, maybe they'd turned a corner, but nope.. This episode could easily have fit in with S1 and for all the reasons that was such a mess.

Oh well.

Franz Von Peppercorn

I too would have been happy to see the back of the Klingons for this season. The red signals would have been a decent arc for actual star trekking.

Spear

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I too would have been happy to see the back of the Klingons for this season. The red signals would have been a decent arc for actual star trekking.

From the looks of things in the preview, that does seem to be it Klingon wise. This weeks events seem to really only serve to send Tyler back to Discovery.

heebusjeebus

L'rell looks nothing like the other Klingons. She's like a Disney version of a Klingon.

PhiloCypher

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

** Now folks, if dissenting views aren't your thing, you might as well skip this post. Fair warning **






So after a pretty decent episode last week, normal service is resumed. Whereas the last episode actually caught my attention and was more in the vein of classic Trek, this one was back to the usual poor fare I've come to expect from this show.

First we get motion sickness inducing jogging/running through the hallways while the lights overhead flicker as if the ship is damaged.. Why? Also, why not just use the holodeck rather than almost running into other crew?

I'd imagine you were one of many who were none to pleased to see a holodeck last year. I'd have thought you'd be pleased they seem to have shelved it for now . Are you likewise annoyed at Pike using a view screen instead of the holo projector ?

I do agree about the camera work in this episode tho, I'm all for them doing something different but some of the moves were just off putting

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Oh it's because Tilly is in the COMMAND TRAINING PROGRAMME (in case you forgot). That irritant shouldn't even be on the ship, never mind a candidate for future command. Plus more convenient magic tech to deal with her "imaginary friend". Handy, but I suppose they have to give Staments SOMETHING to do these days.

Yeh because beloved Trek shows aren't rife with Starfleet engineers cobbling together "magic tech" out of gobbledegook to save the day . You do yourself and your better points a disservice when you come out with groundless crap like the above. You end up just coming off as a crank .

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The "Klingons" and Tyler are back, with a reboot around the classic D7 to try and shoehorn this show into canon. At least they look and act more like the Klingons we remember and the switch to English certainly makes their scenes less of a chore but the actors are still having bother with the prosthetics I think? This plot was certainly the strongest part of the episode anyway, but must everything be in badly lit, noisy, almost-cutscenes?

And once again you scoff at the shows attempt to realign itself with canon with the introduction of the D7. Proof positive that they literally cant win with you . Continue with as many ship types as Klingon Houses.

'They look nothing like Klingon ships , where are the D7's'

They Introduce the D7

'Look at these fools trying to shoehorn in canon ship designs'

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Spock's rebooting continues. Not only is he a mental patient, but now apparently a murderer as well. The scenes with Burham and Amanda were dull and weak which didn't help matters

They haven't made him a murderer any more then O Brien was a murderer just because he was accused in that one plot line that time. Being falsely accused is the trekkiest of tropes. The fact you are taking it as fact that they are making Spock a Murderer, tells me you either don't know Trek, are blinded by your hatred of the show, or are arguing the point in bad faith knowing it wont end up being true but just wanting to get a dig in .

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

And Michelle Yeoh returns to provide more skewed fan service with Section 31. Like Tilly I don't get the love for her, but S31 like Q or the Borg are best used sparingly, but hey..

I agree that section 31 should be used sparingly otherwise they will become a deus ex machina.

TheValeyard

Camera man needs to switch to Decaf.


Overall I really enjoyed it. Klingon side story is interesting. Role of Section 31 while not unexpected was good. Wary of how it plays out with Spock. We will see.


My musings......


1) Didn't we already have a weird version of the D7 in S1. So is this a D7 refit to unite the Empire under one Banner.


2) Wonder who the baby grows up to be.......


3) Red Angel is probably a Preserver. Needs to influence the past so the Federation can save them in the future.


4) at least we have our answer to Green Spore in S1. And does the Spore entity think that Stamets is mirror Stamets and cannot distinguish universes?

pixelburp

Not quite as Trek 101 as last week, but still showing a slow increase in standards - even if it returned the Klingons, the undoubted millstone around season 1s neck. The nods towards more established continuity were nice.

The episode was way overstuffed though; Red Angel, Burnham's family woes, Tilly, Ash and Lrell, Section 31. Way too dense for one episode and they could have chopped about half the content out; I suspect the latter material was in aid of table setting for later in the season.

I also suspect the Tilly stuff might be the first seeds of removing the Spore drive from the canon; if the spores are properly sentient than clearly that's a path to negate the techs presence.

All the Discovery crew were as enjoyable as ever, bar Burnham,... as ever. Pikes nostaglic preference of screens was cute.

Spear

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

4) at least we have our answer to Green Spore in S1. And does the Spore entity think that Stamets is mirror Stamets and cannot distinguish universes?

Mirror Stamets never got to control the spore drive, something the spore entity made direct reference to, so it's after prime Stamets alright.

Stupid ugly klingons and their stupid giant heads
And tyler handily killing like 12 of them in one go. Will ya stop

Stop spinning the camera around

Ok with the CTP being shown, they have to have some kind of program sure

Rest was more interesting. Sentient spores sounds like byebye spore drive

Goodshape

Jesus they need to put that camera down somewhere for a while. All that budget and nobody thought to buy a tripod?


Episode was alright. A lot of really clunky delivery of really clunky exposition though.

Klingon stuff was good. Wasn't expecting that conclusion, glad they didn't stick it out playing First Family of The Klingon Empire.

Tilly's storyline was good too. This Spore-creature seems pretty unhappy with Stamets, my guess is harming these things spells the end of the spore drive as usable technology. It's almost too Star Trek.


Burnham / Amanda Grayson scenes were so stiff and unnatural. Really bad dialogue, really badly delivered.

Not into the Section31 stuff at all, and not looking forward to that new show. I guess Ash / Shazad Latif is off to star in that then? Fair enough. Hope there's not too much cross-over, their inclusion in this episode felt way out of place.

AtomicHorror

Definitely an "in-between" episode. AFter last week's nicely focussed, (almost) self-contained story, we're back to pure story arc- fairly unfocused, bit too busy.

I'm liking the Red Angel and the Spock backstory- Burnham's split with her brother is feeling more plausible, less a canon convenience. Klingon stuff was ok, though I'm actually a bit disappointed at the switch to English- I'd say I'm in the minority there. The baby will surely fuel the imaginations of the kinds of fans who need every detail to mean something and every character to have a meaningful connection to the grander canon. They'll want it to be Worf's dad or something similarly painfully contrived. Glad to see the old D7, and they've used it exactly as I expected- the creation of the unified imperial fleet.

Not too keen on Section 31- never have liked them. Though I like Georgiou, and enjoyed her entrance.

Camera man was drunk or something.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

** Now folks, if dissenting views aren't your thing, you might as well skip this post. Fair warning **

It's not the dissenting views. Everyone here has had a gripe about the show at some point.

Imagine deliberately exposing yourself to something you hate, week after week, and never really hating it any less. And every week, announcing to everyone that you've done this thing you hate, this thing that seems to give you no benefit at all. It's been 18 episodes, with no sign that this is going to turn around for you. I'm not sure what you expect us to think of you.

What would you think of someone who ate something they suspected they weren't going to like, got violently sick, and then did it seventeen more times just in case it wasn't as bad the next time? Proudly telling people how much they hated it, each and every time?

See you next week, I guess.

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

** Now folks, if dissenting views aren't your thing, you might as well skip this post. Fair warning **

I really don't get you, lad.


I will watch a show and complain about parts of it, while overall liking the show. That is generally what discussions are about, people talking about things that they like but pointing out what they don't like in a "if they did this it would be better mode"




You actively dislike the show and constantly piss all over it, there is no point in even engaging with your dislikes (agree or not in part) because you like NOTHING of the show. There is no common ground. That is what is tedious about your posts, they are nothing but constant negativity.


It's like going into the soccer forum, to the Liverpool fan thread and saying "I LOVE Liverpool, but only the team from the 1980's and every thing/player nowdays is ****" and saying that after every match.

pixelburp

Goodshape wrote: »

Burnham / Amanda Grayson scenes were so stiff and unnatural. Really bad dialogue, really badly delivered.

That scene was particularly bad all right and a good example of the "show don't tell" mantra. Five minutes of blather about Burnham's childhood, featuring a person not in the room at the time. Had to go back and listen again because the speed of delivery also made it hard to decipher what even was said.

I liked Georgiou as well, esp the funny bit at the end with the kid

pixelburp

The little snarky moments between Georgiou, not to mention her overall manner, definitely felt like preparing the ground for that spin-off and the inevitable softening of her character. It had to happen after all, she was a OTT, camp, Kelpian eating monster in season 1

Sad Professor

I preferred the Burnham/Amanda scenes to the Burnham/Sarek scenes, mainly because of Kirshner, but the writing quality is the same (bad).

It was an okay episode but quite a shift in tone and style from last week's.

PhiloCypher

Not as strong or as focused as the last weeks but a necessary transitional episode, the like we'd previously only seen in three parters like the ones in Enterprise 3&4 seasons.

I think this episode was intentionally plot heavy, to its detriment at times, in order to allow future eps to be more episodic and not have to devote quite as much time to moving the season arc forward . If I'm right I'd expect a transitional episode like this every 3rd or 4th ep. How well it works over the course of the season we'll have to see. They might pull it off and please both sides of the episodic vs serialised divide or they might please neither.

On the various plot lines:

Tilly' plot
Thought it was patently ridiculous she caught up with the others cpt candidates after taking a 2 minute time out to talk to Mae(did they stop for a smoke?), but maybe we're meant to believe she had more time to catch up then the two corridors worth we were shown. I'm really glad they didn't belabour the whole ghost plotline, most shows nowadays would have drawn that out for weeks. A sentient spore also hopefully spells the end for the spore drive as it's becoming a deus ex machina at this point.

Burnham/Amanda

Enjoyed the insight into Spocks and Burnhams different upbringings within the same household, and how it possibly informs their current relationship. As for Spock being wanted for murder. Being falsely accused of murder is the trekkiest of tropes so I find it oddly comforting.

L'Rell/Ash

Enjoyed the Klingon stuff with a few caveats. Was great to see the D7 introduced as the new workhorse of the newly united Klingon Empire. The Ash L'Rell stuff was a bit soapy with the baby revelation but then when has Klingon material ever not been soapy. Worfs whole life was one big soap opera, they just spread it over a couple of dozen 'Klingon' episodes across two shows instead of one ep like here . Gotta say I'm glad they established she got pregnant by Voq pre surgery and not since he's been Ash, as given he's said intimacy with her feels like a violation(ouch) the child would have essentially been the product of rape. Great to see hairy Klingons again even if the rationalisations a bit flakey.

Georgiu/section31

Anyone else think the section 31 ship looks a lot like the Vulcan Skiff that brings Spock to the Enterprise in TMP ( I think )

Johnny Storm

very "meh" episode, IMHO
They could have kept Silly's in-head friend going a bit longer I thought

Johnny Storm

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Anyone else think the section 31 ship looks a lot like the Vulcan Skiff that brings Spock to the Enterprise in TMP ( I think )

Totally! Deliberate psyke out on us fanboys, I think

flazio

Felt like it was written by someone who didn’t get the memo about the change in tone for the next series and directed by an attention deficit disorder sufferer (though I did like what they were trying to do with the Burnham/Ash holographic call.)
So, what will be the Federations official line on the events be? Is Ash now officially dead?

Goodshape

Sad Professor wrote: »

I preferred the Burnham/Amanda scenes to the Burnham/Sarek scenes, mainly because of Kirshner, but the writing quality is the same (bad).

Oh, total opposite for me! I thought Burnham and Sarek's scenes were great in S02E01. Burnham and Amanda was an absolute chore – and I thought Kirshner was awful . Have no idea who that actress is otherwise but she seemed very out of place and uncomfortable here.

Dialogue obviously didn't help.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Oh yeah forgot the camera work.

Reminded me of playing an RPG a while back when I couldn’t get to grips with the camera mechanism and the camera would just circle around the room, while I was just trying to move the avatar.

pixelburp

Johnny Storm wrote: »

very "meh" episode, IMHO
They could have kept Silly's in-head friend going a bit longer I thought

I suspect she'll stick around and that Tilly becomes the conduit or Spore Whisperer while Disco tries to work out what to do with it

TheValeyard

They are definitely going to sell those DISCO running t-shirts.

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

They are definitely going to sell those DISCO running t-shirts.

i'm pretty sure someone i know got one
and i want one