Does Ireland have a drug problem or not?

TerrorFirmer

Some amount of waffle in this thread. 70% of people in a pub at any one time are on coke.

jobbridge4life

ArchXStanton wrote: »

The drug problem in my home town is unbelievable, you'd get a bag of coke here easier than the city centre, every pub toilet cistern is coated in vaseline to try deter would be users.

This is a complete fiction. An embarrassing fiction.

El_Bee

We may not have any snow, but Dublin is still buried in white powder.

turdball

jobbridge4life wrote: »

This is a complete fiction. An embarrassing fiction.

100%, don't think he realizes people have phones they can snort it off.

Also if we want to get serious could be a potential law suit waiting to happen.

raze_them_all_

jobbridge4life wrote: »

This is a complete fiction. An embarrassing fiction.

people used to put polish on the back of a jacks where i worked

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I wonder is this how naive the average Irish person is ?
The whole post is so far from the reality of drugs and reads like something form the parish progress in the 1980''s

... said the guy who believes everything he hears from 17 year old kids and exaggerates it to national proportions on the basis that any given teenager MUST have complete access to any given drug at any given time.

Totally believable viewpoint based on totally reliable source. Yeah....

dartboardio

Absolutely. I’m a 20 year old girl from a city in Ireland and unfortunate to say there is definitely a drug problem, including myself and friends. Over the last few years it became way too normal to get mdma or coke or ‘yokes’ on a night out, and it’s been way too normal for someone to actually look like they need to go to hospital back at an after party. I have a cousin on either side who look like just normal teenagers from the outside and from a respectful family, but have awful issues with drugs and take them way too much and have lost many jobs due to the ‘session’

It’s not even ‘recreational’ it’s take enough that you’d terrify yourself if you seen a picture of yourself. Most don’t even enjoy it anymore just do it out of habit I’m sure!

I myself end up taking stuff every so often still and always regret it the next morning.

Tbh I wish it wasn’t normal in this country to abuse alcohol and drugs.

NIMAN

dartboardio wrote: »

Absolutely. I’m a 20 year old girl from a city in Ireland and unfortunate to say there is definitely a drug problem, including myself and friends. Over the last few years it became way too normal to get mdma or coke or ‘yokes’ on a night out, and it’s been way too normal for someone to actually look like they need to go to hospital back at an after party. I have a cousin on either side who look like just normal teenagers from the outside and from a respectful family, but have awful issues with drugs and take them way too much and have lost many jobs due to the ‘session’

It’s not even ‘recreational’ it’s take enough that you’d terrify yourself if you seen a picture of yourself. Most don’t even enjoy it anymore just do it out of habit I’m sure!

I myself end up taking stuff every so often still and always regret it the next morning.

Tbh I wish it wasn’t normal in this country to abuse alcohol and drugs.

You can make the decision not to, of course. Your call.

If others like your cousins want to wreck their lives, that's their decision. No-one elses.

I have yet to hear of anything positive to come out of someone taking drugs.

Sam Quentin

Unless you're in the know,.then you would think Ireland has a bigger drug problem than it actually has.... Lots of 'kids' you see on a night out in all towns and cities across Ireland and who you would assume are out of their heads on drugs,.are actually out of their heads(poisoned) through over consumption of alcohol,.massive amounts of alcohol are being consumed by youngsters through shots,.a shot(back in the day)use to be a luxury,a celebration of something special. Let's have a tequila (yes just one)to celebrate Jimmy emigrating to London or whatever...... Nowadays 'kids' are throwing them into their wee bodies all the way through their night out,.just like I use to throw pints of beer into mine... I assume most you guys 35+ agree!?

Ps: I also agree there is a substantial drug problem in Ireland among young people.

joeguevara

Where I live drugs are absolutely everywhere. On a night out it would be easier to count the people that are not taking cocaine in the bars than those that are. There is no discriminating with age and it’s the 18 year olds right up to grandparents. Everyone seems to have a bag with them.

But the real issue isn’t drug taking as I don’t see the negative affects (i don’t take drugs) that are portrayed in the media. Of my friend group 2 have ended up in the John of Gods but from alcohol. I don’t take drugs because of my addictive personality rather than an anti drug stance. But I do believe that legalization would have nothing but a positive affect. Being against the law doesn’t do anything only fuel criminality and the likelihood that drugs are tainted.

If you take criminality out of it and have a supplybthat was tested regulated and taxed then what is the issue. There was a newspaper page recently where three guys were jailed for over 10 years each for cocaine supply and directly underneath a guy who had thousands of child pornographic images got a suspended sentence with no jail time. The worst thing is was that it was the same judge.

The war on drugs doesn’t work. Drugs aren’t inherently bad but the way they are sold are. A farmer in Colombia gets 3 dollars for a kilo of pure cocaine and by the time it gets here is worth upwards of 25k. That is the issue.

I have lived in about 15 countries in 3 continents and I have never seen as many people take drugs as I do now. Something has to change. If you take the business away from organized crime gangs the murder will stop. They would convert into legitimate businesses and society as a whole will improve. People will say that drugs are bad. Maybe but why continue in a way that just doesn’t work.

NIMAN

joeguevara wrote: »

Where I live drugs are absolutely everywhere. On a night out it would be easier to count the people that are not taking cocaine in the bars than those that are. There is no discriminating with age and it’s the 18 year olds right up to grandparents. Everyone seems to have a bag with them.

But the real issue isn’t drug taking as I don’t see the negative affects (i don’t take drugs) that are portrayed in the media. Of my friend group 2 have ended up in the John of Gods but from alcohol. I don’t take drugs because of my addictive personality rather than an anti drug stance. But I do believe that legalization would have nothing but a positive affect. Being against the law doesn’t do anything only fuel criminality and the likelihood that drugs are tainted.

If you take criminality out of it and have a supplybthat was tested regulated and taxed then what is the issue. There was a newspaper page recently where three guys were jailed for over 10 years each for cocaine supply and directly underneath a guy who had thousands of child pornographic images got a suspended sentence with no jail time. The worst thing is was that it was the same judge.

The war on drugs doesn’t work. Drugs aren’t inherently bad but the way they are sold are. A farmer in Colombia gets 3 dollars for a kilo of pure cocaine and by the time it gets here is worth upwards of 25k. That is the issue.

I have lived in about 15 countries in 3 continents and I have never seen as many people take drugs as I do now. Something has to change. If you take the business away from organized crime gangs the murder will stop. They would convert into legitimate businesses and society as a whole will improve. People will say that drugs are bad. Maybe but why continue in a way that just doesn’t work.

Is there anyone who could honestly say they are good?

joeguevara

NIMAN wrote: »

Is there anyone who could honestly say they are good?

Yes. The vast majority of people who go out and take drugs at the weekend. People who have self control and don’t live in a crack den or go robbing for their habit. 95% of people who take drugs and enjoy them for what they are would say they are good. They have no addiction problems and don’t take them thinking they are bad.

The people who say drugs are bad are talking about the violence and criminalitybtbat exists because of their legal status. Normally the people who say drugs are bad have no clue about them or the poor family of someone who has overdosed because the drug was tainted, contained poisonous substances or was stronger than expected due to the fact that they are manufactured in an illegal laboratory or a backstreet mixing factory.


Rarely are the normal people who enjoy the effects on a regular basis interviewed because where is the story?

NIMAN

joeguevara wrote: »

Yes. The vast majority of people who go out and take drugs at the weekend. People who have self control and don’t live in a crack den or go robbing for their habit. 95% of people who take drugs and enjoy them for what they are would say they are good. They have no addiction problems and don’t take them thinking they are bad.

The people who say drugs are bad are talking about the violence and criminalitybtbat exists because of their legal status. Normally the people who say drugs are bad have no clue about them or the poor family of someone who has overdosed because the drug was tainted, contained poisonous substances or was stronger than expected due to the fact that they are manufactured in an illegal laboratory or a backstreet mixing factory.


Rarely are the normal people who enjoy the effects on a regular basis interviewed because where is the story?

And what's to stop any single person who thinks they have always had positive outcome of taking drugs, from being the next victim?

joeguevara

NIMAN wrote: »

And what's to stop any single person who thinks they have always had positive outcome of taking drugs, from being the next victim?

But that’s exactly my point. The way it is now you can’t. But properlybregulated and taken away from criminals would be in a better situation to make an informed decision. Every argument against drugs is based on the current way they are sold. But it doesn’t work. At the end of the day drugs are only a substance that are illegal and allow criminals decide what people put in their body. Does it stop people taking them. No. So what’s your point?

NIMAN

joeguevara wrote: »

But that’s exactly my point. The way it is now you can’t. But properlybregulated and taken away from criminals would be in a better situation to make an informed decision. Every argument against drugs is based on the current way they are sold. But it doesn’t work. At the end of the day drugs are only a substance that are illegal and allow criminals decide what people put in their body. Does it stop people taking them. No. So what’s your point?

Well in that case, I'd agree with you totally.

As it stands, I think taking drugs is a mugs game. We have all heard countless stories of young folk who happened to take something that didn't agree with them and now they are dead. And for that reason I never had the inclination to take drugs (other than alcohol). I still don't think anyone could say their life is better for taking drugs.

Of course with regulation you would be spared that risk. Plus it would put a lot of criminals out of business, and raise plenty of taxes too.

BalcombeSt4

Well I'm high on cocaine as type this. so, yeah.

NIMAN

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

Well I'm high on cocaine as type this. so, yeah.

Living the dream so.
High on coke and surfing boards.

Sawduck

Not at all, look at places like America where there is kids selling on street corners, we don't have those issues in fact it's getting harder to get weed these days, Irish people just overreact

joeguevara

NIMAN wrote: »

Well in that case, I'd agree with you totally.

As it stands, I think taking drugs is a mugs game. We have all heard countless stories of young folk who happened to take something that didn't agree with them and now they are dead. And for that reason I never had the inclination to take drugs (other than alcohol).

Of course with regulation you would be spared that risk. Plus it would put a lot of criminals out of business, and raise plenty of taxes too.

It’s a no brained really. I have not heard one logical argument that can convince me that legalizing drugs is not a good idea. When you start at the point that the current situation doesn’t work and doesn’t stop people taking drugs (and I’m talking everybage and facet of society) then how can taking the sale and supply away from criminals who don’t care about the end user be anything but a positive step.

The only thing I would call you up on is your point is your comment about countless people dying from drugs. Yes people die and it’s always a tragedy but the number is remarkably low even when you take into consideration that they are manufactured by criminals. More people die from alcohol and cigarettes than all the drugs combined. Hell even sugar claims millions of times more than every drug put together. When you take that and the fact that most of the people who do die from drugs is actually caused by what is mixed with them, the fact that synthetic substitutes aren’t tested and the user didn’t know what they are taking or the fact that they didn’t know the potency is even a bigger reason for the legalization.

Now I am not stupid enough to think that it wouldn’t have its downside but anything is better than what we have now.

joeguevara

Sawduck wrote: »

Not at all, look at places like America where there is kids selling on street corners, we don't have those issues in fact it's getting harder to get weed these days, Irish people just overreact

I don’t think it’s an over reaction. In my local there are countless people who sell it. Now this is a normal pub and not a backstreet dive. I think people who don’t see your stereotypical street seller down play drugs in society. It is literally everywhere. Every house party you go to there will be more people taking drugs than not. In my lifetime I have never seen more people taking cocaine on the weekend than I have in the past 3-4 years.

BalcombeSt4

NINMAN
Living the dream so.
High on coke and surfing boards.

That is the dream. It's deeply rooted in the American dream.

Sawduck

joeguevara wrote: »

I don’t think it’s an over reaction. In my local there are countless people who sell it. Now this is a normal pub and not a backstreet dive. I think people who don’t see your stereotypical street seller down play drugs in society. It is literally everywhere. Every house party you go to there will be more people taking drugs than not. In my lifetime I have never seen more people taking cocaine on the weekend than I have in the past 3-4 years.

You must live in city, where I'm from people do weed every now and again,pubs are mostly full of middle age people having a laugh, house party you have a point there,I was at one over the new year's and the younger crowd were passing around speed but it's not that common

joeguevara

Sawduck wrote: »

You must live in city, where I'm from people do weed every now and again,pubs are mostly full of middle age people having a laugh, house party you have a point there,I was at one over the new year's and the younger crowd were passing around speed but it's not that common

I live in a suburb of Dublin. But when I go home it’s the same. I often used to joke to my mates here that when I go home people actually go to the jacks to have a p1ss. But now half of the people there would have a bag in their pocket at the weekend.

People are naive if they think it’s a fiction that you can’t get a bag within 5 minutes of going into a bar. I’d say in my local I’d have about 5 people approach me on a Friday or Saturday looking by something simply by how I look. Now I don’t take anything never mind sell but they are not even embarrassed. That is how normalized it has become.

joeguevara

I think the biggest issue is that the anti drugs lobby are heavily financed and have deep routes in catholic groups who constantly are uniform in their argument. Anyone who speaks about the legalization are disregarded as being idealistic students or stoner students. There isn’t the buy in from general society as what professional or any working person will come out and publically argue for the legalization of drugs. That’s why there is no reasonable debate. Also the politicians who legislate don’t live in the real world and are persuaded by groups who spout the same tired arguments. Similar to the prostitution industry. Strong anti lobbying groups but no reasoned debate.

The criminals are laughing all the way to the bank at the expense of end users who are the real victims.

volono

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I'm not saying none of them are, I'm saying that the idea that it's every weekend is bull****. I'm an adult living in Berlin in full time employment and I have problems sometimes. And that's before we get to the expense part. How is a random 17 year old going to obtain and afford it?! We're talking drugs here. They don't just use a little pocket money and nip down to the local off-license and casually asking someone to nip in and get it for them.

And they certainly are not so careless that they get overheard talking about it!! "Talking openly"...?! That's bull**** right there - and hilariously so!

Sorry but had to reply to this post. How naive in your thoughts are you being?. I don't want to come across to harshly but you are miles behind the times here. I haven't touched drugs in so long that i've almost forgotton and i can still obtain them on any given day within a few hours if i so chose.
How do a large amount of teenagers manage to get a drink when underage? for instance. People have friends, work colleagues, older siblings, god i had a friend at that age who's mother smoked cannabis everyday, although i must add it was for different reasons.
Teenagers have jobs, i know i had, and was earning a significant amount at the time even compared to some ''adults''. drugs are FREELY available and kids being kids a significant proportion of them are going to experiment.Yes Every Weekend.
As for another post mentioning a large portion of people being on cocaine at any given time, well maybe/maybe not but one thing i can guarantee is that if i fancied cocaine when in a pub it wouldn't take me to long to zone in on which group(s) are taking it , maybe having a cigarette with a couple of them and then asking them to do me a favour and ring their dealer/friend to organize a bag. I'm a Dublin man and i couldn't care less if that notion entered my mind in the back of beyond to be honest, it'd happen, nothing surer imo.
As for crack cocaine , the authorities and services that be are only now beginning to recognise the massive problem it is starting to become. I have an acquaintance who works in the services who mentioned that it was freely available years ago. He also mentioned the injection clinics now in the city center , wheither your in agreement or not are a decade late, crack is the new epidemic and the government and these service providers and agencys are just too far behind the curve of it all.

joeguevara

volono wrote: »

Sorry but had to reply to this post. How naive in your thoughts are you being?. I don't want to come across to harshly but you are miles behind the times here. I haven't touched drugs in so long that i've almost forgotton and i can still obtain them on any given day within a few hours if i so chose.
How do a large amount of teenagers manage to get a drink when underage? for instance. People have friends, work colleagues, older siblings, god i had a friend at that age who's mother smoked cannabis everyday, although i must add it was for different reasons.
Teenagers have jobs, i know i had, and was earning a significant amount at the time even compared to some ''adults''. drugs are FREELY available and kids being kids a significant proportion of them are going to experiment.Yes Every Weekend.
As for another post mentioning a large portion of people being on cocaine at any given time, well maybe/maybe not but one thing i can guarantee is that if i fancied cocaine when in a pub it wouldn't take me to long to zone in on which group(s) are taking it , maybe having a cigarette with a couple of them and then asking them to do me a favour and ring their dealer/friend to organize a bag. I'm a Dublin man and i couldn't care less if that notion entered my mind in the back of beyond to be honest, it'd happen, nothing surer imo.
As for crack cocaine , the authorities and services that be are only now beginning to recognise the massive problem it is starting to become. I have an acquaintance who works in the services who mentioned that it was freely available years ago. He also mentioned the injection clinics now in the city center , wheither your in agreement or not are a decade late, crack is the new epidemic and the government and these service providers and agencys are just too far behind the curve of it all.

It is interesting that you raise crack and the lack of knowledge is staggering. Crack is base coke and people have a belief that it is a completely different drug than the more popular cocaine. It is crystallized or base Cole and when you hear of people cooking it on a spoon that is just to get rid of impurities to purify or clean it. The issue is that the cocaine being sold is purer than it has ever been with a lot being sold as rock. Now although not exactly the same as crack but if smoked has just as devastating affects. I have seen so many people at parties decide to smoke their cocaine for a laugh not knowing that for all intents and purposes they are smoking crack. Now this isn’t true for every time but it is the start of it.

Smoking it is ingested about 5 times faster than snorting and goes to the brain quicker. Ignorance may mean an addiction and affects that are far worse than envisaged.

Trump Is Right

joeguevara wrote: »

Smoking it is ingested about 5 times faster than snorting and goes to the brain quicker. Ignorance may mean an addiction and affects that are far worse than envisaged.

Surely the real ignorance, is in using such a substance to begin with, regardless of the delivery method... once you've gone down that line (excuse the pun;)) you've pretty much decided that it's worth taking major risks with your health for a fun night out!?

joeguevara

Trump Is Right wrote: »

Surely the real ignorance, is in using such a substance to begin with, regardless of the delivery method... once you've gone down that line (excuse the pun;)) you've pretty much decided that it's worth taking major risks with your health for a fun night out!?

The whole premise of your post is your belief that drugs are killers and abstinence is best. If people didn’t do things with risks that they enjoy then life would be boring. Like don’t do parachute jumps because you might die. Don’t drive a fast car around a track cause you might die. Don’t have sex with a stranger because you might die.

Life isn’t like that. Most things that are enjoyable have risks attached. The likelihood of actually dying are miniscual so people do. Taking drugs is not the Russian roulette that you portray and the payoff is worth it to the people. Now I don’t take anything and barely drink these days but I am not naive to think that abstinence is the answer. That’s why i think drug reform is. To lessen the odds of harm.

joeguevara

Trump Is Right wrote: »

Surely the real ignorance, is in using such a substance to begin with, regardless of the delivery method... once you've gone down that line (excuse the pun;)) you've pretty much decided that it's worth taking major risks with your health for a fun night out!?

Also I don’t believe taking drugs are as a major risk to your health that you portray. If you show me the deaths from drugs in the last year then the proportion will be so small that it’s irrelevant. And as I said previously the reasons for the drug deaths are invariably not from the drug itself but from additives or not what they thought they were taking or unregulated potency then it bolsters the argument on reform and legalization.

What is ignorant is allowing criminals be in control of what is taken.

petes

The naivety of some of the posts on this thread is staggering.

Try living in an apartment complex. Have lived in two over the last few years. Drug deals aplenty on a daily basis.

Trump Is Right

joeguevara wrote: »

The whole premise of your post is your belief that drugs are killers and abstinence is best. If people didn’t do things with risks that they enjoy then life would be boring. Like don’t do parachute jumps because you might die. Don’t drive a fast car around a track cause you might die. Don’t have sex with a stranger because you might die.

Life isn’t like that. Most things that are enjoyable have risks attached. The likelihood of actually dying are miniscual so people do. Taking drugs is not the Russian roulette that you portray and the payoff is worth it to the people. Now I don’t take anything and barely drink these days but I am not naive to think that abstinence is the answer. That’s why i think drug reform is. To lessen the odds of harm.

I take your point... but your analogy with skydiving is not a great one tbh.

When you touch down after a successful skydive, your body is usually in the exact same state that is was before you jumped. (assuming you had a normal landing)

But after a night out taking drugs like Coke etc, your body definitely is not in the same state it was beforehand. You can pretty much guarantee that there is some kind of damage done internally (and if you're doing it regularly, the damage accumulates)

And then there is the quality of what you're ingesting... honestly how careful do you imagine most people are when choosing who they take these drugs off?? Again, back to your skydiving analogy... for a start, most people are sober when deciding on a skydiving club. And so are the instructors and pilots.

Not all risky behaviours are equal in their level of accepted risk...

Trump Is Right

joeguevara wrote: »

Also I don’t believe taking drugs are as a major risk to your health that you portray. If you show me the deaths from drugs in the last year then the proportion will be so small that it’s irrelevant. And as I said previously the reasons for the drug deaths are invariably not from the drug itself but from additives or not what they thought they were taking or unregulated potency then it bolsters the argument on reform and legalization.

What is ignorant is allowing criminals be in control of what is taken.

But what about the long term consequences to your health?

People are ignoring future consequences of their actions, in favour of having a good time in the here and now... (not judging people - just pointing it out)

The fact you don't even feel the need to mention the longer term when talking about the health effects, is sort of a case in point tbh...

joeguevara

Trump Is Right wrote: »

I take your point... but your analogy with skydiving is not a great one tbh.

When you touch down after a successful skydive, your body is usually in the exact same state that is was before you jumped. (assuming you had a normal landing)

But after a night out taking drugs like Coke etc, your body definitely is not in the same state it was beforehand. You can pretty much guarantee that there is some kind of damage done internally (and if you're doing it regularly, the damage accumulates)

And then there is the quality of what you're ingesting... honestly how careful do you imagine most people are when choosing who they take these drugs off?? Again, back to your skydiving analogy... for a start, most people are sober when deciding on a skydiving club. And so are the instructors and pilots.

Not all risky behaviours are equal in their level of accepted risk...

The analogy was the risk versus payoff of doing something. I think you are overplaying the almost guarantee of internal damage as alcohol or smoking would cause more damage. You never or indeed very rarely hear of someone’s internal organs shutting down or getting cancer from cocaine but compare that to liver damage and lung cancer from alcohol and tobacco.

Your second point is exactly my argument for reform.

joeguevara

Trump Is Right wrote: »

But what about the long term consequences to your health?

People are ignoring future consequences of their actions, in favour of having a good time in the here and now... (not judging people - just pointing it out)

The fact you don't even feel the need to mention the longer term when talking about the health effects, is sort of a case in point tbh...

Since when do the majority of people think about long term consequences over short term thrills. Again you could say that about sugar, saturated fats, alcohol and tobacco.

As I have said if it was regulated properly then long term damage would be greatly reduced.

Trump Is Right

joeguevara wrote: »

The analogy was the risk versus payoff of doing something. I think you are overplaying the almost guarantee of internal damage as alcohol or smoking would cause more damage. You never or indeed very rarely hear of someone’s internal organs shutting down or getting cancer from cocaine but compare that to liver damage and lung cancer from alcohol and tobacco.

Your second point is exactly my argument for reform.

This sounds very like the internal dialogue of someone who is trying to make their drug habit seem inconsequential... it's mental mind games. Addicts use this type of logic all the time... "This Vs That" "the risks are tiny" "My behaviour is not like there's" etc etc

You can't see inside your own body after a night of heavy partying with drugs... at least with alcohol, in theory you could go and have your liver tested for minor damage, and then back off the booze for a few weeks. In most cases that would be enough to prevent major long term issues!

What are the options with something like coke??

The particular drug of choice is partly the problem. There is an acknowledgement when you make the choice to take certain substances, that you are inherently less worried about your health or your life...

You can't tell me that someone having a few pints at the weekend and someone else doing a few lines in the toilet, both have the same level of concern for their health... I agree both drugs can be equally damaging.... but the behaviours and attitude are usually not the same!

joeguevara

Trump Is Right wrote: »

This sounds very like the internal dialogue of someone who is trying to make their drug habit seem inconsequential... it's mental mind games. Addicts use this type of logic all the time... "This Vs That" "the risks are tiny" "My behaviour is not like there's" etc etc

You can't see inside your own body after a night of heavy partying with drugs... at least with alcohol, in theory you could go and have your liver tested for minor damage, and then back off the booze for a few weeks. In most cases that would be enough to prevent major long term issues!

What are the options with something like coke??

The particular drug of choice is partly the problem. There is an acknowledgement when you make the choice to take certain substances, that you are inherently less worried about your health or your life...

You can't tell me that someone having a few pints at the weekend and someone else doing a few lines in the toilet, both have the same level of concern for their health... I agree both drugs can be equally damaging.... but the behaviours and attitude are usually not the same!

Firstly as I have said I don’t take drugs so not sure about internal dialogue but hopefully you are talking in general. Secondly i don’t think people really think about consequences of actions when out on a weekend.

I agree about no one knows or sees what is inside their body but I go back to the point of it is rare if ever you see internal organs collapsing because of let’s say cocaine compared to alcohol.

I think you are overplaying the behaviors and attitudes argument. I was talking about the majority of people who go out on a Saturday. Do they consider in detail their behaviors and actions or do they just go out and enjoy themselves.

I am not talking about addicts. I am talking about the people that was raised in the OP. I still stand by my point about reform and regulation.

Trump Is Right

joeguevara wrote: »

Firstly as I have said I don’t take drugs so not sure about internal dialogue but hopefully you are talking in general. Secondly i don’t think people really think about consequences of actions when out on a weekend.

I agree about no one knows or sees what is inside their body but I go back to the point of it is rare if ever you see internal organs collapsing because of let’s say cocaine compared to alcohol.

I think you are overplaying the behaviors and attitudes argument. I was talking about the majority of people who go out on a Saturday. Do they consider in detail their behaviors and actions or do they just go out and enjoy themselves.

I am not talking about addicts. I am talking about the people that was raised in the OP. I still stand by my point about reform and regulation.

Yes, I was talking in general...

I worry about legalization, for the reasons I pointed out above... there is a big danger that all recreational drugs get viewed as being equal in their potential dangers.

But they are not equal, and the behaviours attached to certain drugs are not the same. Having a few lines of coke on the weekend is not the same as having a few pints... there is a very real danger that they will be viewed as being essentially the same thing.

When is the last time you heard of someone dropping dead or OD'ing after downing a bad pint of larger in their local?? I'm sure it's possible, but not very likely...

But the main difference is in the accepted level of risk and behaviours. People who are happy to do a few lines on the weekend are not usually the same type of people who only like to have a few pints watching the rugby/soccer... and there is a push in society from certain people, towards making both behaviors equal in how they're viewed socially. To me that's a dangerous way of thinking...

Flippyfloppy

joeguevara wrote: »

Firstly as I have said I don’t take drugs so not sure about internal dialogue but hopefully you are talking in general. Secondly i don’t think people really think about consequences of actions when out on a weekend.

I agree about no one knows or sees what is inside their body but I go back to the point of it is rare if ever you see internal organs collapsing because of let’s say cocaine compared to alcohol.

I think you are overplaying the behaviors and attitudes argument. I was talking about the majority of people who go out on a Saturday. Do they consider in detail their behaviors and actions or do they just go out and enjoy themselves.

I am not talking about addicts. I am talking about the people that was raised in the OP. I still stand by my point about reform and regulation.

Have you ever taken cocaine? I would imagine that a drug that causes most people to be sitting on the toilet for a portion of the night, dialates their pupils and causes weight loss over long term use does effect their organs.

Just google the effects, this is from the top page:
Long-term effects
Permanent damage to blood vessels of heart and brain
High blood pressure, leading to heart attacks, strokes, and death
Liver, kidney and lung damage
Destruction of tissues in nose if sniffed
Respiratory failure if smoked
Infectious diseases and abscesses if injected
Malnutrition, weight loss
Severe tooth decay
Auditory and tactile hallucinations
Sexual problems, reproductive damage and infertility (for both men and women)
Disorientation, apathy, confused exhaustion
Irritability and mood disturbances
Increased frequency of risky behaviour
Delirium or psychosis
Severe depression
Tolerance and addiction (even after just one use)

joeguevara

Trump Is Right wrote: »

Yes, I was talking in general...

I worry about legalization, for the reasons I pointed out above... there is a big danger that all recreational drugs get viewed as being equal in their potential dangers.

But they are not equal, and the behaviours attached to certain drugs are not the same. Having a few lines of coke on the weekend is not the same as having a few pints... there is a very real danger that they will be viewed as being essentially the same thing.

When is the last time you heard of someone dropping dead or OD'ing after downing a bad pint of larger in their local?? I'm sure it's possible, but not very likely...

But the main difference is in the accepted level of risk and behaviours. People who are happy to do a few lines on the weekend are not usually the same type of people who only like to have a few pints watching the rugby/soccer... and there is a push in society from certain people, towards making both behaviors equal in how they're viewed socially. To me that's a dangerous way of thinking...

So what is the alternative? Preserve the status quo, ignore the fact it’s widespread and allow criminals to control? If you talk about education then that is naïveté and has proven it doesn’t work.

joeguevara

Flippyfloppy wrote: »

Have you ever taken cocaine? I would imagine that a drug that causes most people to be sitting on the toilet for a portion of the night, dialates their pupils and causes weight loss over long term use does effect their organs.

Just google the effects, this is from the top page:
Long-term effects
Permanent damage to blood vessels of heart and brain
High blood pressure, leading to heart attacks, strokes, and death
Liver, kidney and lung damage
Destruction of tissues in nose if sniffed
Respiratory failure if smoked
Infectious diseases and abscesses if injected
Malnutrition, weight loss
Severe tooth decay
Auditory and tactile hallucinations
Sexual problems, reproductive damage and infertility (for both men and women)
Disorientation, apathy, confused exhaustion
Irritability and mood disturbances
Increased frequency of risky behaviour
Delirium or psychosis
Severe depression
Tolerance and addiction (even after just one use)

Yes I have. Not for me.

Googling side affects doesn’t go to my argument. The issue is what is being done isn’t working.

Samuri Suicide

This thread is starting to read like virgins discussing STDs....

joeguevara

Samuri Suicide wrote: »

This thread is starting to read like virgins discussing STDs....

Hahah I get you. But I have a lot of experience on this both personally and professionally. Also I am not the same person now i was 5-10 years ago.

Giveaway

joeguevara wrote: »

Hahah I get you. But I have a lot of experience on this both personally and professionally. Also I am not the same person now i was 5-10 years ago.

Ireland has a low level of drug abuse and criminality internationally. The problem is that the tolerance of bad behaviour is so high here, such behaviour will increase exponentially and we will have a big problem quite soon.

joeguevara

Giveaway wrote: »

Ireland has a low level of drug abuse and criminality internationally. The problem is that the tolerance of bad behaviour is so high here, such behaviour will increase exponentially and we will have a big problem quite soon.

Don’t know where you got that as we are one of the highest in Europe.

https://www.thesun.ie/news/1099923/ireland-among-highest-level-of-drug-use-in-europe-as-number-of-people-with-drug-related-hiv-increasing/

Also it is increasing https://www.thejournal.ie/drugs-ireland-statistics-4222407-Sep2018/

If I accept your assertion that we have low levels of criminality then that means that drugs don’t increase crime.

Wanderer78

Our problem with drugs, is how badly we deal with it, but it's probably just as bad in many other countries

joeguevara

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Our problem with drugs, is how badly we deal with it, but it's probably just as bad in many other countries

The problem really is the fact that the world in all its wisdom has decided that it is better to treat it as the route of all evil and spend billions on a ‘war against it’ which has failed spectacularly and caused the bloodshed of millions. It has allowed criminals to profit which literally by governments. It has caused people to live in poverty as no more than slaves with constant fear from the cartels as well as the police.

What has it achieved. Nothing.

Instead of legalizing it and allow it to be treated as a legitimate business.

I wouldn’t say I am anti drugs but am definitely far from pro. But I am a pragmatist. If something has failed so badly why continue the same way.

Giveaway

joeguevara wrote: »

Don’t know where you got that as we are one of the highest in Europe.

https://www.thesun.ie/news/1099923/ireland-among-highest-level-of-drug-use-in-europe-as-number-of-people-with-drug-related-hiv-increasing/

Also it is increasing https://www.thejournal.ie/drugs-ireland-statistics-4222407-Sep2018/

If I accept your assertion that we have low levels of criminality then that means that drugs don’t increase crime.

The article quoted is highly parsed for attention as one would expect for a tabloid paper. The annex at the end of the actual report suggests we are comparable to our european peers and we are a veritable paradise compared to anywhere outside Europe..ie worldwide

Internationally we do have low levels of criminality but crime is rising in tandem with increased drug use.

Wanderer78

joeguevara wrote:

I wouldn’t say I am anti drugs but am definitely far from pro. But I am a pragmatist. If something has failed so badly why continue the same way.

Us humans are unusual, but it is somewhat understandable why we continue as is, addiction is complicated and difficult to deal with, it has affected most families globally, and we have remained stuck in our ways due to its complexity. I do believe legalising would probably be a better route, but it's important to know, this approach would introduce it's own complexities and difficulties. There's effectively no real solution to our drug and addiction problems, but we re in desperate need of reforming our approaches to dealing with it, particularly within our health and legal systems, I do think this is slowly occuring though

joeguevara

Giveaway wrote: »

The article quoted is highly parsed for attention as one would expect for a tabloid paper. The annex at the end of the actual report suggests we are comparable to our european peers and we are a veritable paradise compared to anywhere outside Europe..ie worldwide

Internationally we do have low levels of criminality but crime is rising in tandem with increased drug use.

Crime is rising because drugs are controlled by criminal. Take that power away then serioisbcrime such as gang deaths etc will fall. I am just saying that the current way we are dealing with things isn’t working.

Wanderer78

joeguevara wrote:

Crime is rising because drugs are controlled by criminal. Take that power away then serioisbcrime such as gang deaths etc will fall. I am just saying that the current way we are dealing with things isn’t working.

I'm not convinced this will truly occur, do we have absolute proof of this occuring anywhere in the world, humans would kill over water?