Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

Hurrache

CelticRambler wrote: »

As an aside: boards.ie is full of (Irish) posters who are just about as blinkered as any Brexiteer when it comes to what their government and "unelected bureaucrats" are doing behind closed doors on their behalf, all around the world. But when you leave the island, and make an effort to get off the tourist trail, you soon realise that Ireland's economic (agriculture/tourism/IT/pharma) success is not a miracle in any way - it's the result of a lot of hard work and intense networking ... and making friends, not enemies!

We've been setting up Irish food trade shows for years in the likes of China and Japan for example.

road_high

Didn’t know the IDA were after Nissan. Wouldn’t make sense really but I suppose jobs are jobs.
The 1980s after Ford closed may have been the time, not nowadays

road_high

Hurrache wrote: »

We've been setting up Irish food trade shows for years in the likes of China and Japan for example.

We are light years ahead of the uk in food production. I always find the food cheap crap in England, hard to get a good meal or non pre packed sambo even! And that’s exactly the image it has elsewhere. A non runner to try sell elsewhere.
We’ve been doing the “global” for years and no big hullabaloo or forcing it on people like the desperate uk is trying to do now

54and56

RobMc59 wrote: »

Why?-Japan is ecstatic about the new EU-Japan trade deal and can import cars tariff free into the EU.I still haven't discovered what's in it for the EU though.

At a guess reciprocal arrangements for German and French cars into Japan?????

4068ac1elhodqr

Worth noting that regarding the (Japanense) car plant closures (Nissan/Honda).

The Jap folks sent out a warning to the UK months ago, about it's handling of brexit,
but even more importantly, about it's clear ambitions to re-position as a tax haven on the global stage.

They're heading for 17% CT, maybe lower 15? by 2025, seems that's enough to worry a top3 global power on the other side of planet.

54and56

lawred2 wrote: »

you seem to be of the impression that the only item in the FTA is automobiles..

it's a lot more than that

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/in-focus/eu-japan-economic-partnership-agreement/eu-japan-in-your-town/

cool little facility that shows companies in the EU exporting to Japan.

and specifically here's Ireland

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/in-focus/eu-japan-economic-partnership-agreement/eu-japan-in-your-town/ireland_en.htm

Funny how actual facts provide clarity but only to those prepared to accept them.

road_high

RobMc59 wrote: »

Why?-Japan is ecstatic about the new EU-Japan trade deal and can import cars tariff free into the EU.I still haven't discovered what's in it for the EU though.

Free trade generally benefits everyone. Both parties. It’s super for ireland as we don’t make any cars but produce and export a lot of high quality food. Another developed and affluent market for our dairy ingredients.

54and56

CelticRambler wrote: »

As an aside: boards.ie is full of (Irish) posters who are just about as blinkered as any Brexiteer when it comes to what their government and "unelected bureaucrats" are doing behind closed doors on their behalf, all around the world. But when you leave the island, and make an effort to get off the tourist trail, you soon realise that Ireland's economic (agriculture/tourism/IT/pharma) success is not a miracle in any way - it's the result of a lot of hard work and intense networking ... and making friends, not enemies!

Well said CR. Having worked internationally for about 10 years in the early naughties and lived in SE Asia I was always impressed with the business friendly and non patronising manner our "unelected bureaucrats" carried out their business. Without exception they always took time to understand the products and services Irish companies were looking to export or have sourced/made internationally and opened so many doors in target markets not due to the size and power of Ireland (which let's face it is minuscule) but because they had patiently built respectful mutually beneficial relationships in the markets they were posted to which generated huge reserves of goodwill they could then tap into as needed.

c.p.w.g.w

If we have a no deal, does anyone know the story with the border, will Ireland be expected to foot the bill, or will the EU lend a hand?

road_high

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Well said CR. Having worked internationally for about 10 years in the early naughties and lived in SE Asia I was always impressed with the business friendly and non patronising manner our "unelected bureaucrats" carried out their business. Without exception they always took time to understand the products and services Irish companies were looking to export or have sourced/made internationally and opened so many doors in target markets not due to the size and power of Ireland (which let's face it is minuscule) but because they had patiently built respectful mutually beneficial relationships in the markets they were posted to which generated huge reserves of goodwill they could then tap into as needed.

The Irish do dimplomacy very well. In contrast to the “do as we say” approach next door! That’s why we’ve been so successful in Europe.
Their latest threats to Japan to “hurry up on our trade deal” have not gone down well at all. I think they’re in for a rude awakening

VinLieger

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

If we have a no deal, does anyone know the story with the border, will Ireland be expected to foot the bill, or will the EU lend a hand?

Theres no details yet as they need to keep the pressure on the UK but id guess since its going to be an EU border we will get assistance with it

Water John

The lead in time to begin increasing stock and output in dairy and meat is at least 3 years. Then it's a gradual curve after that.

Imreoir2

road_high wrote: »

The Irish do dimplomacy very well. In contrast to the “do as we say” approach next door! That’s why we’ve been so successful in Europe.
Their latest threats to Japan to “hurry up on our trade deal” have not gone down well at all. I think they’re in for a rude awakening

It's not like we had a choice, we don't have any weight to throw around. Ireland only ever has one option when it comes to influencing others to our benefit. Flexibility, goodwill, mutual respect and alignment of interests. The UK had and will continue to have other options that can deliver beneficial outcomes for them, but it seems that their current political leadership is not very adept at assessing their own position or the best strategies to deliver the outcome they want.

Not having a clear idea what you want is also a big negative when it comes to planing how to achieve it.

RobMc59

road_high wrote: »

We are light years ahead of the uk in food production. I always find the food cheap crap in England, hard to get a good meal or non pre packed sambo even! And that’s exactly the image it has elsewhere. A non runner to try sell elsewhere.
We’ve been doing the “global” for years and no big hullabaloo or forcing it on people like the desperate uk is trying to do now

Here`s an example which I find hard to understand from such a global,light years ahead food producer.
Gallagher`s sliced loaf(made in Donegal)-1.50 euro in Letterkenny,the same loaf 89p in the UK.
Tayto 12 pack of crisps-4 euros+ in Ireland but £2 in Derry and £1.75 in Britain(when you can find them admittedly!) so how is that light years ahead?

road_high

Water John wrote: »

The lead in time to begin increasing stock and output in dairy and meat is at least 3 years. Then it's a gradual curve after that.

If there’s an increase in dairy beef it’ll be at the expense of wheat and other cereals of which the uk is a big producer- supplying into their significant flour, biscuit, cereals and processed food companies. Add in the environmental and welfare constraints of modern agriculture- I can’t see the uk public buying into that

Water John

Accepting you're prices but I wouldn't put white sliced pan and Tayto crisps as the pinnacle of our food producing abilities.

road_high

RobMc59 wrote: »

Here`s an example which I find hard to understand from such a global,light years ahead food producer.
Gallagher`s sliced loaf(made in Donegal)-1.50 euro in Letterkenny,the same loaf 89p in the UK.
Tayto 12 pack of crisps-4 euros+ in Ireland but £2 in Derry and £1.75 in Britain(when you can find them admittedly!) so how is that light years ahead?

You’re taking very specific examples of prices and comparing them? What has that got to do with anything? The Irish market is simply more affluent and things cost more! Plus we don’t have the cheap as possible lowest quality possible, uk food policy.
I’m talking about where we can add the real value and export for high profits ie our beef and especially dairy ingredients where Ireland is a world leader. Milk powder for infant formula for example. Not selling loafs of cheap bread to Iceland

RobMc59

road_high wrote: »

You’re taking very specific examples of prices and comparing them? What has that got to do with anything? The Irish market is simply more affluent and things cost more! Plus we don’t have the cheap as possible lowest quality possible, uk food policy.
I’m talking about where we can add the real value and export for high profits ie our beef and especially dairy ingredients where Ireland is a world leader. Milk powder for infant formula for example. Not selling loafs of cheap bread to Iceland

When you say the Irish market is more affluent-more affluent than who?
And things produced in Ireland and indeed,even in the same County should`nt cost more than they do in the UK!

murphaph

RobMc59 wrote: »

Why?-Japan is ecstatic about the new EU-Japan trade deal and can import cars tariff free into the EU.I still haven't discovered what's in it for the EU though.

Millions of wealthy Japanese customers? Ireland will benefit greatly from this particular FTA.

An Ciarraioch

The NI unionist field becomes even more fragmented - admittedly, the likes of UKIP and TUV are marginal, at best, but now a party even further to the right has emerged:

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/scrap-all-uk-assemblies-says-new-unionist-party-1-8816844

An Ciarraioch

murphaph wrote: »

Millions of wealthy Japanese customers? Ireland will benefit greatly from this particular FTA.

Especially agrifood, where Japan had a closed market up to now.

ancapailldorcha

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

The NI unionist field becomes even more fragmented - admittedly, the likes of UKIP and TUV are marginal, at best, but now a party even further to the right has emerged:

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/scrap-all-uk-assemblies-says-new-unionist-party-1-8816844

“We are a fledgling party which was formed by activists from the Scottish referendum,” Mr Higginson told the News Letter. “We are a pro-Brexit, UK unionist-wide party aiming to rebuild Britain. We don’t recognise Stormont, we are for direct rule from Westminster.”

Is this not the DUP's niche? What exactly is the point of this new party?

VinLieger

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Is this not the DUP's niche? What exactly is the point of this new party?

Its just one group of unionists trying to be more english than other unionists, you know.... the usual behaviour from them

ancapailldorcha

VinLieger wrote: »

Its just one group of unionists trying to be more english than other unionists, you know.... the usual behaviour from them

They're just going to split their own vote though. I fail to see the point.

VinLieger

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

They're just going to split their own vote though. I fail to see the point.

You see your trying to apply normal human logic to something hardcore unionists do....



Their only goal is to get another pat on the head and be told what good little servants to the empire they are.

lawred2

VinLieger wrote: »

Its just one group of unionists trying to be more english than other unionists, you know.... the usual behaviour from them

Direct rule from Westminster.

How progressive.

L1011

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

They're just going to split their own vote though. I fail to see the point.

Most likely just split the TUV vote, who have mostly failed to dent the DUPs.

An Ciarraioch

lawred2 wrote: »

Direct rule from Westminster.

How progressive.

Back to the Vanguard rhetoric of the Seventies - where a young Trimble cut his political teeth.

An Ciarraioch

Meanwhile, the Malthouse Compromise is dead:

http://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1097879243948810241

Folkstonian

road_high wrote: »

Free trade generally benefits everyone. Both parties. It’s super for ireland as we don’t make any cars but produce and export a lot of high quality food. Another developed and affluent market for our dairy ingredients.

High end Irish produce is no better than high end British produce. I’ve lived in both countries, bought from high end supermarkets and independent businesses in both. There’s no substantial difference.