Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

lawred2

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

3.5% loss of GDP predicted. Put us very close to recession. Yep sure we will cope admirably. You clearly know something the Central Bank don't!

Us?

Never once heard anyone Irish refer to Ireland as the 'South'

Don't think you're from Ireland mate.

ToBeFrank123

lawred2 wrote: »

Bit of a cop out really. You claimed to have offered an alternative.

Turns out that that's not the case.

What have you offered? Turns out you haven't offered anything either.

In fact no-one has offered anything on here except some wishy-washy nonsense about the UK changing their minds and staying in or accepting the WA as is.

But yes, you all clearly have more power and influence than the HoC! Except none of you have any power or influence!

Good Evening!

megaten

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

ok thread is being joined by posters not bothering to read back previous posts of other posters specifically about the backstop.

Makes me wonder why bother if others don't bother.

I mean you don't understand so why not reiterate it?
The current backstop was designed by the UK to satisfy its internal politics. The EU and Ireland were only looking for NI to stay in the single market.

The UK is voting down their own deal not ours.

A Dub in Glasgo

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

posters not bothering to read back previous posts

Ahem 1

Ahem 2

Ahem 3

lawred2

Mortelaro wrote: »

Interesting to hear Sammy Wilson on Sky news harp on with 'Aha theres no legislation for border infrastructure ' by the free state
He neglects to mention it isnt needed
All he was interested in was misinforming

The DUP line on media reminds me of the tactics used by the Soviets during the 1980s
The only thing they're not doing from that playbook yet is claiming their ear piece doesn't work
I suspect that they'll use that tool on March 30th

The free state?

I'd hate to live so trapped in the past

Leroy42

Tobefrank123, do you understand why there is currently no border between NI and Ireland? And why there is a border between Turkey and Greece?

A Dub in Glasgo

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Neither is going to happen. Try harder.

You are the spokesperson of the House of Commons now?

lawred2

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

What have you offered? Turns out you haven't offered anything either.

In fact no-one has offered anything on here except some wishy-washy nonsense about the UK changing their minds and staying in or accepting the WA as is.

But yes, you all clearly have more power and influence than the HoC! Except none of you have any power or influence!

Good Evening!

All the best. Sorry things didn't work out for you.

Professor Moriarty

lawred2 wrote: »

The free state?

I'd hate to live so trapped in the past

It's a deliberate insult typical of Sammy and his ilk. Last sting of a dying wasp.

Laois_Man

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

In fact no-one has offered anything on here except some wishy-washy nonsense about the UK changing their minds and staying in or accepting the WA as is.

But your own stated position effectively amounts to.....should allow a time-limited backstop and hope that by the time the time limit runs out, that the Brits have changed their minds!

Mortelaro

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

What have you offered? Turns out you haven't offered anything either.

In fact no-one has offered anything on here except some wishy-washy nonsense about the UK changing their minds and staying in or accepting the WA as is.

But yes, you all clearly have more power and influence than the HoC! Except none of you have any power or influence!

Good Evening!

To be fair Brexiteers are disingenuously telling the new 11 independent group to go back to the people for by elections yet not wanting to go back to the people with the real meaning of Brexit
That's the fundamental problem solver being avoided by the dimwits behind Brexit because they don't care

Harry Palmr

May is toast

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/22/theresa-may-must-go-in-three-months-cabinet-ministers-say

Cabinet ministers will make it clear they believe Theresa May should step down after the local elections in May and allow a new leader to deliver the next phase of the Brexit negotiations, the Guardian understands.

Senior figures in government have suggested they want the prime minister to leave shortly after the first phase of the Brexit negotiations finishes – or risk being defeated in a vote of no confidence at the end of the year.

May wants to stay in place for long enough after Brexit to secure a political legacy beyond the fraught negotiations. But some ministers believe she should announce the timeline for her departure “on a high” after the local election results, paving the way for a Conservative leadership contest over the summer.

Brexiters in the cabinet are keen to see a new leader take over for the next stage of the negotiations with the EU, which May has already pledged will involve more active involvement for politicians rather than advisors.

So then if the next leader is a Brexiteer and tries to take a hard line will that provoke a rush of Conexits?

downcow

J Mysterio wrote: »

Also, I can't help but to have noticed that when you refer to Northern Ireland, it is 'NI, but when you refer to Ireland, it is 'roi'. Noteworthy to an extent.

As usual you a far to suspicious. If it’s the capital letters you are referring to I can assure you it is simply predictive text.
Let me just check to be sure to be sure.
NI roi. Try it yourself with no caps on. You couldn’t make this up!

downcow

J Mysterio wrote: »

Except it's not 'the south'. Unless of course you want to say 'South, West and East'. Easier to call it Ireland. And that's not how it looks, Ireland is booming atm, and we should cope admirably.

I live in the east of the island of Ireland but I can assure I don’t live in roi. You are far too sensitive

May is good for Ireland. No point in hoping for her downfall.

downcow

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

As Barnier himself has said, there's little point in the EU making concessions if the HoC cannot clarify what it is prepared to adopt (the Brady amendment doesn't mean that a majority would vote for the WA without a backstop).

This nonsense has been churned out for weeks. Eu making the excuse that there is no point in amending wa as there is no guarantee hoc would accept it. Well if they didn’t accept it then Eu would have lost nothing. So that statement has no integrity

Inquitus

Deleted User wrote: »

May is good for Ireland. No point in hoping for her downfall.

Aye the favourites to replace her don't make good reading!

Michael Gove 5/1
Boris Johnson 6/1
Sajid Javid 7/1
Dominic Raab 9/1
Jeremy Hunt 9/1
Amber Rudd 14/1

Nody

downcow wrote: »

This nonsense has been churned out for weeks. Eu making the excuse that there is no point in amending wa as there is no guarantee hoc would accept it. Well if they didn’t accept it then Eu would have lost nothing. So that statement has no integrity

Since you're such an expert can you please state exactly what deal the HoC is willing to accept? I mean the WA was created based on May's government input on what was acceptable etc. after all so please in your infinite wisdom share what deal HoC will accept keeping in mind the red lines (both sides) out there.

Irishmale0399

downcow wrote: »

This nonsense has been churned out for weeks. Eu making the excuse that there is no point in amending wa as there is no guarantee hoc would accept it. Well if they didn’t accept it then Eu would have lost nothing. So that statement has no integrity

Have you still not realised that the UK government and your Prime Minister accepted the WA when doing the deal in Brussels only the try and change it at the last minute to keep parliment happy. Until the UK and its residents realise that they are being led up the garden path by their own government and PM they will never be able to accept anything. As I have said before and I will repeat the question to you and hope to get an answer this time.....


What does the UK have/produce that the EU needs, cannot do without or cannot produce/supply within the EU to themselves???


Simple fact is.....the UK may be important for the Irish economy/peace but in the big picture the rest of the EU can live without you.

downcow

Nody wrote: »

Since you're such an expert can you please state exactly what deal the HoC is willing to accept? I mean the WA was created based on May's government input on what was acceptable etc. after all so please in your infinite wisdom share what deal HoC will accept keeping in mind the red lines (both sides) out there.

I’m no expert but I can see why you would mistake me for one.
I could accept a time limited backstop but I couldn’t tell you what hoc will accept.
Can you tell me what movements to current deal would be acceptable to Eu?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I’m no expert but I can see why you would mistake me for one.
I could accept a time limited backstop but I couldn’t tell you what hoc will accept.
Can you tell me what movements to current deal would be acceptable to Eu?

If the HOC cannot accept the deal then as far as the rest of the EU is concerned they can crash out. This is the current position.

Ireland and the rest of the EU will take measures to cope. Simple as that.
We in the EU know that the UK will be back looking for a deal in a much weaker position.

What decisions are left after that for the UK is to revoke the whole idea.
The time is almost up - nobody is going to come up with solutions for the UK, they had the chance to do that and failed.

Inquitus

downcow wrote: »

Can you tell me what movements to current deal would be acceptable to Eu?

Not much, just a change to the political declaration perhaps noting the desire not to use the backstop, best endeavours, good faith etc.

sink

downcow wrote: »

The free state?

I don’t understand this problem people have with various names for roi and finding insult in them.
My dad was from Donegal and he always says the free state. Is this seen as an insult now?

It's a belittling statement only designed to remind the Irish that once they were ruled by the Brits and to this day are not really regarded as equal, but merely 'the colonized' with delusions of grandeur.

Calina

downcow wrote: »

This nonsense has been churned out for weeks. Eu making the excuse that there is no point in amending wa as there is no guarantee hoc would accept it. Well if they didn’t accept it then Eu would have lost nothing. So that statement has no integrity

Actually they lose the high moral ground and UK ERG types just keep demandung more and more.

The UK needs to identify realistically what it is likely to accept.

Leroy42

downcow wrote: »

I’m no expert but I can see why you would mistake me for one.
I could accept a time limited backstop but I couldn’t tell you what hoc will accept.
Can you tell me what movements to current deal would be acceptable to Eu?

They already did make concessions. The backstop was supposed to only apply to NI, but TM demanded that the entire Uk be included as otherwise she couldn't accept it.

This narrative that the EU has not given concessions is just wrong.

As I asked previously, do you understand why there currently is no border between NI and ROI but there is a border between Greece and Turkey?

So allowing NI/ROI to stay open is already a concession from the EU as it breaks the rules of the union.

What have the UK given in return?

This quotidian drama from English nationalism is draining. Is it possible to fasttrack the end of Theresa May, control of Brexit by the most hardline Europhobes, the accompanying destruction of England and the consequent final discrediting and destruction of English Europhobes/ Brexiteers and a return to power by English people who have got over the ineffably resourceful centuries-long fúcktardness of the Britannia Rules the Waves mentality?

Their coming to terms with the end of world power status - like, how slow can they possibly be? - is not only as embarrassing to watch as a neighbouring family's squabbles but like all elite political battles it's a ridiculous distraction from real societal issues. Perhaps if England had been on the losing side in 1945 (as opposed to a loser on the winning side as it was), the English would have started going through their national identity catharsis 70 years ago and be a more humble people by now? Woe betide we who must witness it now.

I look forward to English nationalists getting/abusing so much power that the English finally are forced to face up to truths about the genie they've been letting loose on other peoples for the past 450 years. Once and for all. Long overdue.

BonnieSituation

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This quotidian drama from English nationalism is draining. Is it possible to fasttrack the end of Theresa May...

Definition:
adjective
1.
of or occurring every day; daily.
"the car sped noisily off through the quotidian traffic"
2.
MEDICINE
denoting the malignant form of malaria.

I'm a sucker for a second appropriate definition of a word.

Thank you sir.

black forest

It seems that the deal with the Swiss is not completely a simple `roll over´as it was widely reported. There are still differences between the situation within the WA and a no deal scenario or after the transition period. Lots to read for the weekend.


https://twitter.com/coppetainpu/status/1098944531075158016?s=21


The author has been working with the WTO for over 15 years.

Junkyard Tom

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

agree something to avoid a hard border.

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

You want a hard border?

The threatening nature of your posts is perfect. The risk of no deal, and resulting border woes, are like a rifle Britain has pointed at Ireland. The problem for Britain is that the EU is pointing a cannon at England.

Dropping the backstop would be akin to the EU decommissioning its cannon while Britain gets to keep pointing its gun at Ireland.

Nope. Not happening.

Jim2007

black forest wrote: »

It seems that the deal with the Swiss is not completely a simple `roll over´as it was widely reported.

True. And on top of this we have also imposed a quote of 3.5k work visas as the UK will now be a third country. Normally we issue about 5.5k permits to UK citizens each year.