Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

downcow

lawred2 wrote: »

Thought you didn't want NI to be any different from GB..

Only when it suits you I suppose

I find that people who don’t value the UK also often don’t understand it.
There are differences in all the regions of the UK. That’s what’s wonderful about it. Indeed something that if Eu had learnt from then they may have had a more content 28. Maybe the will learn when UK leaves

downcow

downcow wrote: »

I find that people who don’t value the UK also often don’t understand it.
There are differences in all the regions of the UK. That’s what’s wonderful about it. Indeed something that if Eu had learnt from then they may have had a more content 28. Maybe the will learn when UK leaves

What should the EU have done differently regarding the UK before Brexit?

CelticRambler

downcow wrote: »

i wasn’t aware I would need anything additional to a Dubliner to live and work in Eu???

:eek:

Ohhhhh dear .........

I think this is a more damning admission than not knowing about TM's red lines! :rolleyes:

downcow wrote: »

I was not referring to the undemocratic shambles that is Stormont. I was referring to hoc which is not a separate jurisdiction and I can vote mps in.

Yet again, I suggest you do some research. There are three legal jurisdictions in the UK - NI, Scotland and England&Wales. Westminster, controlled by the Tories and the Labour Party elected (mostly) by the English.

The only reason NI has any influence at all at the moment is because TM bribed the DUP to help dig her out of a hole. That'll evaporate at the next election.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Wrong. I have my special status courtesy of the gfa not Ireland. So at least be honest.
If it was courtesy of Ireland then you could remove it from us. But unfortunately for you that gfa you have such love for won’t let you take those rights of us. Ironic isn’t it

You won't be able to wave your Irish passport in Belfast airport and get special status after a crash out/No Deal. Your Irish passport will be of no extra value until you land in the EU.

KildareP

downcow wrote: »

Wrong. I have my special status courtesy of the gfa not Ireland. So at least be honest.
If it was courtesy of Ireland then you could remove it from us. But unfortunately for you that gfa you have such love for won’t let you take those rights of us. Ironic isn’t it

If the UK ceases to uphold it's side of the GFA, should the Irish continue to uphold theirs?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why do you think you can zip around Europe seamlessly to your football games? What created that seamlessness?
Do you remember paying around 400-500 quid just to fly to places like Barcelona if you were lucky enough to find a flight?

And the laws you think are controlled by others, can you identify those or some of them?

Project fear again I reckon. I don’t expect flight prices to change dramatically post brexit.

downcow

downcow wrote: »

Wrong. I have my special status courtesy of the gfa not Ireland. So at least be honest.
If it was courtesy of Ireland then you could remove it from us. But unfortunately for you that gfa you have such love for won’t let you take those rights of us. Ironic isn’t it

This is an incredibly snide comment actually. It's mocking a peace agreement and that is pretty damn despicable.

ilovesmybrick

downcow wrote: »

Wrong. I have my special status courtesy of the gfa not Ireland. So at least be honest.
If it was courtesy of Ireland then you could remove it from us. But unfortunately for you that gfa you have such love for won’t let you take those rights of us. Ironic isn’t it

Yes, as a citizen of Northern Ireland you have that benefit. It's a great benefit that would have been even more powerful with the initial deal that May negotiated in December 2017 that was blocked solely by the DUP, which would have granted Northern Ireland the benefits of being both UK and EU citizens, as well as a sort of special economic zone that permitted them to operate within the EU. It would have made Northern Ireland an incredibly attractive area for both EU and UK companies to operate.

However, for the majority of the rest of UK citizens they have no such luck and are losing any ability to have the ability to travel and work in the EU. This may not concern you since you can actually have your cake and eat it, but it's causing massive problems for the UK citizens where I work because their lives, careers and homes are in Austria but they face the issue now of losing the rights conferred on EU citizens in member states and added difficulties in travelling to neighbouring countries. This is a massive issue since these are research scientists and they regularly need to travel around the continent. So bravo, you get you're desire to leave the EU, get an EU passport, and benefit from this, whereas you're compatriots in England, Wales and Scotland are left up the creek with no paddle.

Calina

downcow wrote: »

Wrong. I have my special status courtesy of the gfa not Ireland. So at least be honest.
If it was courtesy of Ireland then you could remove it from us. But unfortunately for you that gfa you have such love for won’t let you take those rights of us. Ironic isn’t it

You are incredibly ill informed. Exactly what signatory of the Good Friday Agreement gives you that status? And which signatory has put more effort into protecting the GFA in current negotiations?

Ireland.

The UK is refusing to.

downcow

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In five weeks, you will for anything on the European mainland, just as CR said. Is this news to you?

So just to be clear are you saying I won’t have free movement with a Irish passport? If you are correct then I am surprised and your gfa is hardly all it was made out to be for the nationalist community?

Calina

downcow wrote: »

I find that people who don’t value the UK also often don’t understand it.
There are differences in all the regions of the UK. That’s what’s wonderful about it. Indeed something that if Eu had learnt from then they may have had a more content 28. Maybe the will learn when UK leaves

Out of interest, what languages do you speak fluently?

CelticRambler

downcow wrote: »

There are differences in all the regions of the UK. That’s what’s wonderful about it. Indeed something that if Eu had learnt from then they may have had a more content 28.

Here we go again: The UK is great because difference and diversity is good, and the EU would be better if there was more difference and diversity. But we have to leave the EU because we don't want to have to live with people who are different or diverse.

Cake. Eating it. :rolleyes:

downcow

downcow wrote: »

So just to be clear are you saying I won’t have free movement with a Irish passport? If you are correct then I am surprised and your gfa is hardly all it was made out to be for the nationalist community?

You have with an Irish passport. I haven't seen you say that before.

To everyone here, if the UK rip up the GFA, will dual-passports continue to be a thing?

Professor Moriarty

Deleted User wrote: »

This is an incredibly snide comment actually. It's mocking a peace agreement and that is pretty damn despicable.

It's more than an agreement. It's a treaty lodged with the UN and has become a de facto part of the British Constitution.

Calina

downcow wrote: »

So just to be clear are you saying I won’t have free movement with a Irish passport? If you are correct then I am surprised and your gfa is hardly all it was made out to be for the nationalist community?

You have free movement if you are an Irish citizen. Tbh, someone as proUnion as you would be being hypocritical to get one but I guess it would not surprise me.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Project fear again I reckon. I don’t expect flight prices to change dramatically post brexit.

Travel cost for people in the UK has already increased, add to that the costs of travel insurance without EHIC and a continuing slump in sterling and you will find it becoming prohibitive if you live on an ordinary salary/wage.

I know you probably will wave that away but you also never answered two of my questions,

Why do you think travel within Europe has become so seamless and cheap?

What are these laws you think you have no control off?

lawred2

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is an incredibly snide comment actually. It's mocking a peace agreement and that is pretty damn despicable.

Par for the course really with old downcow

briany

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And the laws you think are controlled by others, can you identify those or some of them?

It appears to be an ideological position. It's not the content of the laws but the source. Make no mistake - Brexiteers will still find laws passed down unto them with which they do not agree once we go past March 29th, but at least they'll be true blue British laws, by god.

FrancieBrady

lawred2 wrote: »

Par for the course really with old downcow

It is the standard DUP position and contradiction though...we oppose the GFA but we will take advantage of it if it suits us and operate the bits we like.

RobMc59

I admit I'm sketchy about the GFA but if it says there can only be changes within NI with a majority consent would that mean a backstop breaks those terms unless the people of NI agree with it?

Professor Moriarty

briany wrote: »

It appears to be an ideological position. It's not the content of the laws but the source. Make no mistake - Brexiteers will still find laws passed down unto them with which they do not agree once we go past March 29th, but at least they'll be true blue British laws, by god.

The more laws they pass the more difficult the 69 trade agreements that they need to negotiate will become. Then there's the trade agreement to be negotiated with their largest trading partner.

CelticRambler

downcow wrote: »

I don’t expect flight prices to change dramatically post brexit.

Funny you should mention the price of flights. Another example of Nothern Ireland not wanting to be as British as England: no Air Passenger Duty on long haul flights out of NI. Should that concession be rescinded so that DUP-voters like yourself pay the same as Tory-voters flying out of Heathrow?

briany

briany wrote: »

It appears to be an ideological position. It's not the content of the laws but the source. Make no mistake - Brexiteers will still find laws passed down unto them with which they do not agree once we go past March 29th, but at least they'll be true blue British laws, by god.

The comical part is the UK copy-pasting existing EU law, thus making anything the Brexiteers hate actual UK law.

briany

downcow wrote: »

So just to be clear are you saying I won’t have free movement with a Irish passport? If you are correct then I am surprised and your gfa is hardly all it was made out to be for the nationalist community?

It's your GFA too.

woohoo!!!

Yes with both passports to which NI citizens are entitled to, you be able to pick and choose which one to use. If you don't have one and there's no deal, then it would be wise to get one.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

I admit I'm sketchy about the GFA but if it says there can only be changes within NI with a majority consent would that mean a backstop breaks those terms unless the people of NI agree with it?

The UK attorney general has ruled that the Backstop does not infringe the constitutional position of NI.

No break in the terms of the GFA there.

RobMc59

RobMc59 wrote: »

I admit I'm sketchy about the GFA but if it says there can only be changes within NI with a majority consent would that mean a backstop breaks those terms unless the people of NI agree with it?

Surely a more pertinent question is whether a No Deal border which impacts the GFA can be implemented without majority NI consent? Since the backstop doesn't change anything significant.

woohoo!!!

RobMc59 wrote: »

I admit I'm sketchy about the GFA but if it says there can only be changes within NI with a majority consent would that mean a backstop breaks those terms unless the people of NI agree with it?

The backstop does not change GFA, it's designed to support the GFA amongst other things.

Calina

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You have with an Irish passport. I haven't seen you say that before.

To everyone here, if the UK rip up the GFA, will dual-passports continue to be a thing?

Legislative change required and Article 2 of the constitution might require review to make any changes.

I don't see it changing tbh.

Professor Moriarty

CelticRambler wrote: »

Funny you should mention the price of flights. Another example of Nothern Ireland not wanting to be as British as England: no Air Passenger Duty on long haul flights out of NI. Should that concession be rescinded so that DUP-voters like yourself pay the same as Tory-voters flying out of Heathrow?

I look forward to a post-Brexit HoC where English MPs are scrambling for scarce money to bail out their constituencies and the subject of NI's 10 billion budget comes up.