Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

Folkstonian

liamtech wrote: »

I think the point is that registered members of the Labor Party support Corbyn - so even if large amounts of the parliamentary Party was against him, the membership could keep him in

Labour won’t release the data obviously, but all anecdotal evidence suggests labour members are leaving in their droves at the moment.

Old school members are gutted at the way Corbyn’s acolytes have taken the party to the edge of the cliff, and younger members are feeling betrayed by his Brexit stance.

I don’t think it’s necessarily his economic policies (and I say this as someone who isn’t a fan of Corbynomics) that a lot of people are turned away by. As you say labour historically was further to the left than it was under Blair anyway, it’s the very culture of fanatical Corbyn reverence that is so deeply disliked

liamtech

Folkstonian wrote: »

Labour won’t release the data obviously, but all anecdotal evidence suggests labour members are leaving in their droves at the moment.

Old school members are gutted at the way Corbyn’s acolytes have taken the party to the edge of the cliff, and younger members are feeling betrayed by his Brexit stance.

As a leftie im sad to say.. IMHO, Corbyn is potentially the right man, but at entirely the wrong time

tuxy

Time for people to accept that the Tories with May as leader is the best the UK can do for a Brexit deal? It was a democratic decision to vote in the Tories with her as leader. Going against her deal is going against the will of the people.

liamtech

tuxy wrote: »

Time for people to accept that the Tories with May as leader is the best the UK can do for a Brexit deal? It was a democratic decision to vote in the Tories with her as leader. Going against her deal is going against the will of the people.

Honestly dont think the general public voted for May as PM of a DUP -TORY - ERG coalition

FrancieBrady

Folkstonian wrote: »

How does it perfectly sum up labour’s problem? If the masses supported Jeremy as the cartoon suggests, they wouldn’t be polling 9 or 10 points behind the tories. And the dissenters in the parliamentary party would be utterly irrelevant!

Labour supporters back Corbyn while his party MP's are riven...is the point, I thought.

listermint

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Hope the mods allow this, because it perfectly sums up the problem with Labour and for Labour. Not sure what can be done to resolve it and if it can be resolved in time to have any meaningful effect on Brexit.

Thats utter nonsense. All polls suggest labour membership want a second referendum which corbyn is against.

How someone can represent that as factual is beyond me.

Spanish Eyes

Labour allowed membership at 2 pounds or something. Momentum won that one.

Wonder how many yellow packs regret this now?

Doesn't matter, Labour will eat itself out anyway. Polls suggest the same.

Mad isn't it, but First Past the Post has led them to this pass. Democracy huh.

listermint

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Labour supporters back Corbyn while his party MP's are riven...is the point, I thought.

They don't though.

Corbyn is actually betraying his democratic mandate.

And has done it continually since the labour party conference. He's an absolute waster and an abysmal leader.

Backing the Tory party with every move he makes.

tuxy

liamtech wrote: »

Honestly dont think the general public voted for May as PM of a DUP -TORY - ERG coalition

Perhaps, they did after all vote in mostly remainder MPs right after voting for Brexit. Does any research point to what the people who live in the UK actually want?

ToBeFrank123

There's been a hardening of attitudes on all sides. It reminds me of the current situation with Stormont, no-one willing to budge or compromise, lots of blaming and finger pointing. When this happens a deal becomes impossible and just as with Stormont, everyone loses.

Seth Brundle

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

I don't like the UK decision either but it was a democratic decision that should be respected. No point crying over spilled milk and all that.

You know well that it wasnt democratic. This fact has been well documented.
However, I think the flippant comment about spilt milk is somewhat insulting to the people who will be affected by this foolish referendum. Millions will be forced into having to pay a lot more for basic food supplies. Thousands, if not millions, will find themselves a lot poorer. Many will lose their jobs. Many will lose their homes and their relationships.
There will, no doubt, be suicides that follow the subsequent economic downturn that will hit Britain, given the financial strains.
All because a Tory leader (Cameron) wanted to keep his party together and his successor couldnt keep her party in line.
Its not just a case of "crying over spilled milk and all that".

FrancieBrady

listermint wrote: »

They don't though.

Corbyn is actually betraying his democratic mandate.

And has done it continually since the labour party conference. He's an absolute waster and an abysmal leader.

Backing the Tory party with every move he makes.

How do you know they don't? I am not seeing a massive grass root surge against him yet.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

prawnsambo wrote: »

Well reasoned post. Have you anything to back that up so we can share your opinion?

She's a media hore.

If I say anymore it'll derail the thread away from Brexit.

ToBeFrank123

prawnsambo wrote: »

There's plenty of evidence that it wasn't democratic. Unfortunately that evidence doesn't quantify the amount of democracy that was impinged.

Rerunning the referendum is about as pointless exercise as you can get. Its done. Move on.

listermint

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How do you know they don't? I am not seeing a massive grass root surge against him yet.

Because nearly 80 percent want a second referendum and he refuses to back it.

Corbyn is a busted flush. He is may, always has been

Folkstonian

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How do you know they don't? I am not seeing a massive grass root surge against him yet.

They are 9 polling points behind the most universally disliked prime minister in living memory. How much bigger does the surge have to get before you will acknowledge it?

ToBeFrank123

Seth Brundle wrote: »

You know well that it wasnt democratic. This fact has been well documented.
However, I think the flippant comment about spilt milk is somewhat insulting to the people who will be affected by this foolish referendum. Millions will be forced into having to pay a lot more for basic food supplies. Thousands, if not millions, will find themselves a lot poorer. Many will lose their jobs. Many will lose their homes and their relationships.
There will, no doubt, be suicides that follow the subsequent economic downturn that will hit Britain, given the financial strains.
All because a Tory leader (Cameron) wanted to keep his party together and his successor couldnt keep her party in line.
Its not just a case of "crying over spilled milk and all that".

Blaming and finger pointing. Well done on another pointless exercise and indeed post.

The referendum is done and dusted. We're in the next phase now in case you missed the memo.

While your post will get thanks its a pointless post in reality.

listermint

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Blaming and finger pointing. Well done on another pointless exercise and indeed post.

The referendum is done and dusted. We're in the next phase now in case you missed the memo.

While your post will get thanks its a pointless post in reality.

As is this post and the bulk of yours to date.

All fluster nothing more.

Spanish Eyes

All I can say now is Charlie Flanagan is happy out that he is MOJ rather than Min Foreign Affairs now.

Coveney has a tough number on his hands.

Ah well, Vlad will come to rescue once he changes his novelty socks. Is this really what we have leading us now?

ToBeFrank123

listermint wrote: »

As is this post and the bulk of yours to date.

All fluster nothing more.

And as are yours too.

High quality posting here.

Seth Brundle

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Blaming and finger pointing. Well done on another pointless exercise and indeed post.

The referendum is done and dusted. We're in the next phase now in case you missed the memo.

While your post will get thanks its a pointless post in reality.

I didn't say anything about anothwr referendum.
I criticised your callous remark about how people opposed to the lunacy of Brexit should stop crying over spilt milk.

lawred2

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Blaming and finger pointing. Well done on another pointless exercise and indeed post.

The referendum is done and dusted. We're in the next phase now in case you missed the memo.

While your post will get thanks its a pointless post in reality.

downcow gets banned and you rear your head with pretty much the same posting style

prawnsambo

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Rerunning the referendum is about as pointless exercise as you can get. Its done. Move on.

Tell me, where did I suggest that?

Seth Brundle

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Coveney has a tough number on his hands.

He along with junior minister Helen McEntee have played a blinder and are largely supported by all political groups.
Thankfully he has the EU behind him too.

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Ah well, Vlad will come to rescue once he changes his novelty socks. Is this really what we have leading us now?

Who is Vlad or is that just a stupid childish reference to Leo Varadkar?

ancapailldorcha

listermint wrote: »

As is this post and the bulk of yours to date.

All fluster nothing more.

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

And as are yours too.

High quality posting here.

lawred2 wrote: »

downcow gets banned and you rear your head with pretty much the same posting style

Stop the bickering and sniping.

listermint

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

And as are yours too.

High quality posting here.

Responding in kind

Subversive style drawing people in. No idea why . We aren't decision makers.

Spanish Eyes

We can argue all we like.

The reality is that the UK will decide.

And then we will have to suffer the immediate fallout. There is nothing left really, and we here will probably suffer most.

I really don't know what else to say now.

Imreoir2

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

And as are yours too.

High quality posting here.

What is this adding?

The UK should not have held a referendum in the first place, they should have been open to a second referendum when it became clear that those who pushed for Brexit had no plan or ability to deliver what they promised. Now it is probably too late, most likely we will get a no-deal crash, it seems too much to hope for a climbdown by the HoC over the deal.

ToBeFrank123

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I didn't say anything about anothwr referendum.
I criticised your callous remark about how people opposed to the lunacy of Brexit should stop crying over spilt milk.

Anyone who complains about losing a referendum is generally accused of doing that. Nothing callous at all about it.

youcantakethat

Seth Brundle wrote: »

You know well that it wasnt democratic. This fact has been well documented.
However, I think the flippant comment about spilt milk is somewhat insulting to the people who will be affected by this foolish referendum. Millions will be forced into having to pay a lot more for basic food supplies. Thousands, if not millions, will find themselves a lot poorer. Many will lose their jobs. Many will lose their homes and their relationships.

Dunno about that. The pound sterling has not changed much in the past ten years, anytime my cousins ever had to buy sterling they say they usually only got 80 something pence sterling, same as now. And unemployment is less in the UK than in the Eurozone. The UK want their independence from Europe, many in Britain see Europe as greedy bullies, we should be able to understand that. I would say Britain will carry it off, they generally do best when their back is against the wall. I'll be more worried when the EU splits up, will the new proposed EU army be able to hold it together?