Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

alloywheel

More that just tea you may be missing if the EU refuses to do a deal. We import from the UK a lot (3.7bn euro/£3.3bn) of food and drink.

Infini

alloywheel wrote: »

Francie, Yes the UK wish to leave but they do not want to damage the EU by so doing. It is in their own interest that the EU countries prosper, as every country benefits by having wealthy neighbours, nor poor ones.

The UK is currently run by populist idiots along with a few disaster capitalist, ignorant opperunists and blind ideologues with absolutely no interest beyond their own self interest and gain. They're also through their own statements proven to be utterly deceitful and incapable of sticking to their own commitments and have no interest if they dont get their own way.

Sadly there's going to be a reckoning for this level of idiocy sooner or later and that's only a month away when they're forced at this point make one of 2 choices

1) Crash out without a deal and we all watch (with popcorn for some) as their economy crashes, they make an utter mess of themselve and ultimately end up breaking up though their OWN governments incompetents not the EU's because they were too stupid to pull their heads out of their arses and realize being toxic and looking to damage other countries including your own does NOT get you your own way only that it get you the diplomatic evil eye for the next few decades.

or

2) They FINALLY realise and it dawn's on them that they cannot truly go through with this and it will destroy them and they finally have the cop on to trigger an A50 withdrawal and end this farce. They can then reap the consequences of their own actions at home but it's ultimately up to them to decide how they get their own house in order and sort out the problems of their own system of governments shortcomings but blaming other's for their failures isnt going to work.

FrancieBrady

alloywheel wrote: »

More that just tea you may be missing if the EU refuses to do a deal. We import from the UK a lot (3.7bn euro/£3.3bn) of food and drink.

The EU have done a deal. Where have you been?

alloywheel

A deal is not a deal if it is not fair or acceptable to both sides.

Skelet0n

alloywheel wrote: »

A deal is not a deal if it is not fair or acceptable to both sides.

A deal has been agreeed by both sides.

fash

alloywheel wrote: »

More that just tea you may be missing if the EU refuses to do a deal. We import from the UK a lot (3.7bn euro/£3.3bn) of food and drink.

I believe the term you are looking for is "the UK need us more than we need them" and "their food and drink manufacturers will force them to give us a good deal"

Hurrache

alloywheel wrote: »

A deal is not a deal if it is not fair or acceptable to both sides.

Odd then that the negotiation team, including the British prime minister, agreed with it.

BTW, have you found that list of the countries thriving on WTO terms, or any of the questions that you've been asked?

murphaph

alloywheel wrote: »

"How many trade deals will the UK have on April 1st?"
Lots of countries trade quite well on WTO terms.

No, they don't. You are exceptionally poorly informed.

prawnsambo

Hurrache wrote: »

Odd then that the negotiation team, including the British prime minister, agreed with it.

BTW, have you found that list of the countries thriving on WTO terms, or any of the questions that you've been asked?

The cabinet also agreed with it. It's just not getting through parliament at the moment. And when people interpreted the Brady amendment as meaning the WA would get through without the backstop, noises have started about the WA as a whole being unacceptable. So the bogeyman will just move on to be something else if the backstop is dropped.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Take the history elsewhere please.

breatheme

alloywheel wrote: »

More that just tea you may be missing if the EU refuses to do a deal. We import from the UK a lot (3.7bn euro/£3.3bn) of food and drink.

You still refuse to acknowledge any of my previous points and just focus on this one. (The one you feel like you can address I guess.) I live in Spain and good tea is usually British tea. Hopefully Irish producers can step up and fill the vacuum.

Ireland can import from the rest of the EU. Meanwhile the UK's strategy will be to... fling the doors wide open and import from the whole world sans tariffs, probably decimating the Northern Irish agricultural sector.

L1011

breatheme wrote: »

*Actually it'll be the customer in the EU, but still. I'm stockpiling on tea over here, sadly.

What brand?

Main brands here are made in either the Netherlands or domestic, and the tea isn't grown in the UK either.

alloywheel

The fact we, in this little agricultural country, import 3.4 billion ( yes billion) euro worth of food and drink from the UK each year implies it is more to our taste, better quality and / or better value than the food and drink from elsewhere.

Of course the UK would like a deal, but the EU want to punish them. EU intransigence could mean no-deal Brexit. We can blame Leo when the EU then tells us to put up a border.

FrancieBrady

alloywheel wrote: »

The fact we, in this little agricultural country, import 3.4 billion ( yes billion) euro worth of food and drink from the UK each year implies it is more to our taste, better quality and / or better value than the food and drink from elsewhere.

Of course the UK would like a deal, but the EU want to punish them. EU intransigence could mean no-deal Brexit. We can blame Leo when the EU then tells us to put up a border.

What 'punishment' is there in accepting a backstop?

ilovesmybrick

alloywheel wrote: »

The fact we, in this little agricultural country, import 3.4 billion ( yes billion) euro worth of food and drink from the UK each year implies it is more to our taste, better quality and / or better value than the food and drink from elsewhere.

Of course the UK would like a deal, but the EU want to punish them. EU intransigence could mean no-deal Brexit. We can blame Leo when the EU then tells us to put up a border.

In agri-food we have a trade surplus of 1 billion with the UK, I think we'll be fine without the tins of Frey Bentos.

Irish agri-food sector

KingofSheep

alloywheel wrote: »

The fact we, in this little agricultural country, import 3.4 billion ( yes billion) euro worth of food and drink from the UK each year implies it is more to our taste, better quality and / or better value than the food and drink from elsewhere.

Of course the UK would like a deal, but the EU want to punish them. EU intransigence could mean no-deal Brexit. We can blame Leo when the EU then tells us to put up a border.

The UK have a deal.

Hurrache

alloywheel wrote: »

The fact we, in this little agricultural country, import 3.4 billion ( yes billion) euro worth of food and drink from the UK each year implies it is more to our taste, better quality and / or better value than the food and drink from elsewhere.

Of course the UK would like a deal, but the EU want to punish them. EU intransigence could mean no-deal Brexit. We can blame Leo when the EU then tells us to put up a border.

Again can you give evidence as to where you're getting your figures from. What type of foodstuffs, the numbers from each sector, etc etc.

Strazdas

alloywheel wrote: »

The fact we, in this little agricultural country, import 3.4 billion ( yes billion) euro worth of food and drink from the UK each year implies it is more to our taste, better quality and / or better value than the food and drink from elsewhere.

Of course the UK would like a deal, but the EU want to punish them. EU intransigence could mean no-deal Brexit. We can blame Leo when the EU then tells us to put up a border.

The UK have already negotiated and signed off on a deal with the EU. The fact that the hardcore right wing nuts in England don't like it is a completely different argument.

murphaph

alloywheel wrote: »

The fact we, in this little agricultural country, import 3.4 billion ( yes billion) euro worth of food and drink from the UK each year implies it is more to our taste, better quality and / or better value than the food and drink from elsewhere.

Of course the UK would like a deal, but the EU want to punish them. EU intransigence could mean no-deal Brexit. We can blame Leo when the EU then tells us to put up a border.

Give it a rest.

We import a lot from the UK because of mostly historical reasons and the associated brand familiarity.

It's mostly processed foods we import and a huge percentage of that includes foods that are really quite bad for us (snacks, chocolate etc.).

They on the other hand NEED to import the kind of stuff we ship to them (basics like meat and dairy).

Will we notice some items missing from the shelves to be replaced with "weird" Continental versions? Yes. But IME British jam and German jam taste remarkably similar ;-)

alloywheel

Not a fair deal, it was not passed by parliament. It divides their country for a start.

El Weirdo

alloywheel wrote: »

It divides their country for a start.

Would that be the UK-wide backstop?

FrancieBrady

alloywheel wrote: »

Not a fair deal, it was not passed by parliament. It divides their country for a start.

Not passed yet.

And according to the UK's Attorney General the backstop does not alter the constitutional position of any part of the UK.

'Abstract notions' is what is blocking the UK PM from delivering the deal she agreed = it's the UK's internal problem to resolve while we all wait to move on.

RobMc59

What do people think about Taoiseach Varadkar saying there will be armed forces and gardai armed with automatic weapons on the border-is this reasonable in the event of a hard border or is this potentially an inflammatory move?

Rory28

RobMc59 wrote: »

What do people think about Taoiseach Varadkar saying there will be armed forces and gardai armed with automatic weapons on the border-is this reasonable in the event of a hard border or is this potentially an inflammatory move?

Who else is going to do it? lollypop ladies?

If the border is going up it will need to be policed.

Seth Brundle

alloywheel wrote: »

The fact we, in this little agricultural country, import 3.4 billion ( yes billion) euro worth of food and drink from the UK each year implies it is more to our taste, better quality and / or better value than the food and drink from elsewhere.

You're also forgetting that our little agricultural country* produces high quality food which is highly regarded across the world.

In terms of your snide remark "this little agricultural country" shows a complete lack of understanding of Irish industry. Agriculture contributes 1.2% of GDP which is close to the EU average. But you're obviously blinded by your Englishness to see past the image of Irish farmers with their tweet caps swilling porter on the back of a donkey cart.

alloywheel wrote: »

Of course the UK would like a deal, but the EU want to punish them. EU intransigence could mean no-deal Brexit. We can blame Leo when the EU then tells us to put up a border.

...and the alloywheel has gone a full circle :rolleyes:

Hurrache

RobMc59 wrote: »

What do people think about Taoiseach Varadkar saying there will be armed forces and gardai armed with automatic weapons on the border-is this reasonable in the event of a hard border or is this potentially an inflammatory move?

He didn't say there WILL be, nor did he specify the weaponry, now THAT is an inflammatory statement.

Seth Brundle

alloywheel wrote: »

Not a fair deal, it was not passed by parliament.

It was fair enough for Teresa May and Donimic Rabb to agree with it.
Then they changed their mind.
Is that the fault of Leo and the EU?

alloywheel wrote: »

It divides their country for a start.

So does many of the laws in place already e.g. marriage equality and abortion availability in NI.
But lets not let facts get in the way of a good trolling.

road_high

murphaph wrote: »

Give it a rest.

We import a lot from the UK because of mostly historical reasons and the associated brand familiarity.

It's mostly processed foods we import and a huge percentage of that includes foods that are really quite bad for us (snacks, chocolate etc.).

They on the other hand NEED to import the kind of stuff we ship to them (basics like meat and dairy).

Will we notice some items missing from the shelves to be replaced with "weird" Continental versions? Yes. But IME British jam and German jam taste remarkably similar ;-)

It’s simply a legacy of our history that England bought in cheap ingredients from us and the other colonies, processed them into higher value items and sold them back to us for higher profit. Culturally we are tied to the UK food industry as tastes developed quite similarly as did brand loyalty.
You go to Germany France or holland I encounter wonderful equivalents (often cheaper) that are not on the shelves here.

RobMc59

Hurrache wrote: »

He didn't say there WILL be, nor did he specify the weaponry, now THAT is an inflammatory statement.

Ok-But if that was to happen would it be reasonable or inflammatory?-surely the fact he mentioned it means it's a possibility.

breatheme

L1011 wrote: »

What brand?

Main brands here are made in either the Netherlands or domestic, and the tea isn't grown in the UK either.

PG Tips and Twinnings being the ones I'm currently worried about. I'll actually check the origin, I never have, so I don't know if it actually comes from the UK.