Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

briany

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Remaining only makes sense if it's followed by reform. Otherwise, Farage, Rees-Mogg, Gove, Johnson and all the rest funded by their mysterious masters will be back to bring us back to this point and it'll all begin again.

If you've seen the documentary 'Collapse' with Michael Ruppert, Ruppert predicts that due to things like peak oil, each recession the world faces will be worse than the last, and each recovery will be less than the last. If Brexit was driven by austerity and inequality, then it will be inevitably fed by the next big economic downturn and come back as something even more monstrous. Although maybe by that point the UK, and indeed the rest of the West, might have bigger things to worry about than what economic bloc they're a part of.

prawnsambo

So as you were folks. The lunatics are back out of the padded cell.

That could mean anything of course. Different flavour unicorns vs May's unicorns or even no deal.

An Ciarraioch

The "Labour source" is generally considered to be Seamus Milne:

http://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1100139225356341248

An Ciarraioch

prawnsambo wrote: »

So as you were folks. The lunatics are back out of the padded cell.

Snap!

judeboy101

briany wrote: »

If you've seen the documentary 'Collapse' with Michael Ruppert, Ruppert predicts that due to things like peak oil, each recession the world faces will be worse than the last, and each recovery will be less than the last. If Brexit was driven by austerity and inequality, then it will be inevitably fed by the next big economic downturn and come back as something even more monstrous. Although maybe by that point the UK, and indeed the rest of the West, might have bigger things to worry about than what economic bloc they're a part of.

Oil supposedly reached peak production in the 1970's, then again in the 80's followed by 90's, 00's and now 10's.

For Forks Sake

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Not to mention that Turkey's membership bid has been in limbo for the best part of two decades.

And there it will remain for the foreseeable future.

10000maniacs

prawnsambo wrote: »

I'd agree with this. The two main parties are effectively eschewing government n favour of internal party politics.

Brexit is nothing to do with party politics. Its not a right/left thing. It's the cult of leave and it affects left and right leaning people equally. The 52% to 48% ratio affects both main parties equally.
It was funny how both Conservatives and Labour responded to the New Independents when they left the main parties last week. The response of Emily Thornberry summed it up nicely, responding with abuse and the old party tribalism. She as well as 50% of the HOC miss the point that the old politics has failed on Brexit and the only way out of the mess is for everyone to put the country before party and have a peoples vote.

Professor Moriarty

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

The "Labour source" is generally considered to be Seamus Milne:

http://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1100139225356341248

So within three hours Labour is split as to what should be on the ballot paper of a second referendum. What's that sound? Ah yes, the clinking of glasses in Conservative HQ.

prawnsambo

10000maniacs wrote: »

Brexit is nothing to do with party politics. Its not a right/left thing. It's the cult of leave and it affects left and right leaning people equally. The 52% to 48% ratio affects both main parties equally.
It was funny how both Conservatives and Labour responded to the New Independents when they left the main parties last week. The response of Emily Thornberry summed it up nicely, responding with abuse and the old party tribalism. She as well as 50% of the HOC miss the point that the old politics has failed on Brexit and the only way out of the mess is for everyone to put the country before party and have a peoples vote.

I've no idea why you responded to my post with this. Especially since your next paragraph essentially expands on what I posted.

10000maniacs

prawnsambo wrote: »

I've no idea why you responded to my post with this. Especially since your next paragraph essentially expands on what I posted.

I agree with your post. My post wasn't an argument against your post. Just pointing that all commentary centres around party politics and its not really about that.

Mr.Nice Guy

Personally I wouldn't want there to be a second referendum and for Brexit to be reversed. That would be a get out of jail free card for all those like the DUP, Farage, Johnson etc. who said it would be hunky dory and everything would be grand. They would then cry 'betrayal' and concoct their own 'stabbed in the back theory' a la Germany after WW1 and would dine off that for decades. While the EU would avoid short-term upheaval it would lead to a sullen and sulking member forever more, constantly looking to undermine things going forward.

In my view the best outcome is an orderly Brexit and if attitudes mature in the UK in twenty odd years - which I would doubt tbh - then they could look to reapply.

But to face decades of a narrative that screams "It really would have worked out if not for the traitors!"? No thank you.

youcantakethat

Joanna Better Hairpiece wrote: »

Isn't there about x6 new countries in the Western Balkans about to join the 27?

Then (later) Turkey, and (much, much later) the Ukraine.

They need the sterling notes to pay for this,

They (the EU) will not be getting the billions of sterling notes any more.

The British rightfully hate to see their hard earned money wasted. For example, only a few years ago it was revealed that the European Commission had overspent its €220 million translation budget and had to supplement the cost from other sources. One small but telling reason is the cost of translation into the Irish language, which almost nobody is listening to or even reading in Brussels, which is twice the average rate for other languages. At €43 per page, it is almost twice the €22 average cost.

Irish ministers rarely speak Irish at the EU, and even Sinn Fein rarely does. However, Irish language campaigners have estimated that almost 200 full time jobs for Irish translators will be created when, incredibly, Irish becomes a full working language of the union in 2020.

No wonder the British want out.

Professor Moriarty

youcantakethat wrote: »

They (the EU) will not be getting the billions of sterling notes any more.

The British rightfully hate to see their hard earned money wasted. For example, only a few years ago it was revealed that the European Commission had overspent its €220 million translation budget and had to supplement the cost from other sources. One small but telling reason is the cost of translation into the Irish language, which almost nobody is listening to or even reading in Brussels, which is twice the average rate for other languages. At €43 per page, it is almost twice the €22 average cost.

Irish ministers rarely speak Irish at the EU, and even Sinn Fein rarely does. However, Irish language campaigners have estimated that almost 200 full time jobs for Irish translators will be created when, incredibly, Irish becomes a full working language of the union in 2020.

No wonder the British want out.

Hmmm. A major principle of the EU is that it is a union which respects and fosters its members heritage and culture. Hence its longstanding and welcome support for the Irish language.

Wrt Britain leaving, I think you fundamentally misunderstand their core reasons for voting to leave.

4068ac1elhodqr

youcantakethat wrote: »

They (the EU) will not be getting the billions of sterling notes any more.

If they vote remain, they will have to. Or if they want access to the market (for sale of goods) they will need a conribution.

£220m is peanuts in the grand scheme of things. 2017 the UK government paid £13 billion to the EU.

There will be waste anywhere that the greedy can cream off, whether it's childers hospitals, auto-translate scripts, HS2, or a couple of slow moving, outdated floating warships - all while many of the lower classes sleep rough or peruse food banks weekly.

youcantakethat

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Hmmm. A major principle of the EU is that it is a union which respects and fosters its members heritage and culture. Hence its longstanding and welcome support for the Irish language.

Wrt Britain leaving, I think you fundamentally misunderstand their core reasons for voting to leave.

When the British voted to join the EEC in the early seventies there was no mention of the thousands of quangos or the 200 highly paid translators, translating Brussels matters in the the Irish language which would NEVER be read in Irish. No mention of the coming EU army either. I think you fundamentally misunderstand many people distrust of the EU, and the reason why it is the slowest growing region in the world, with chronic unemployment etc (double the UK rate).

FrancieBrady

youcantakethat wrote: »

When the British voted to join the EEC in the early seventies there was no mention of the thousands of quangos or the 200 highly paid translators, translating Brussels matters in the the Irish language which would NEVER be read in Irish. No mention of the coming EU army either. I think you fundamentally misunderstand many people distrust of the EU, and the reason why it is the slowest growing region in the world, with chronic unemployment etc (double the UK rate).

And the UK never wasted any EU money? Or sanctioned it?
They were, like all the others...THE EU.

Professor Moriarty

youcantakethat wrote: »

When the British voted to join the EEC in the early seventies there was no mention of the thousands of quangos or the 200 highly paid translators, translating Brussels matters in the the Irish language which would NEVER be read in Irish. No mention of the coming EU army either. I think you fundamentally misunderstand many people distrust of the EU, and the reason why it is the slowest growing region in the world, with chronic unemployment etc (double the UK rate).

Obviously, you believe that Irish translators were a major factor in the Leave vote. I don't subscribe to that point of view. Research shows that the primary reasons that people voted Leave were sovereignty, immigration and identity.

youcantakethat

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Obviously, you believe that Irish translators were a major factor in the Leave vote.

Really? Where did I say that? I never said Irish language translators were "a major factor in the Leave vote"

FFS !

They are an example of EU waste. The British have been one of the biggest net contributors to EEC and then EU funds, they will not be for much longer.

Professor Moriarty

youcantakethat wrote: »

Really? Where did I say that? I never said Irish language translators were "a major factor in the Leave vote"

FFS !

They are an example of EU waste. The British have been one of the biggest net contributors to EEC and then EU funds, they will not be for much longer.

Grand. We'll just have wait a little longer before the cost/benefit analysis of their departure becomes clear.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/847941/EU-translation-services-overspend-Ireland-priciest

It's hilarious really. Any inane anti-EU argument can be found by typing it with the "the Express" into Google.

An Claidheamh

youcantakethat wrote: »

Irish ministers rarely speak Irish at the EU, and even Sinn Fein rarely does. However, Irish language campaigners have estimated that almost 200 full time jobs for Irish translators will be created when, incredibly, Irish becomes a full working language of the union in 2020.

No wonder the British want out.

How is that bad for Ireland?

It creates jobs for Irish people.

It's not indeed any wonder why the Brits want out - the ignorant and xenophobic.

We'll still be getting their billions, just not directly.

youcantakethat

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Grand. We'll just have wait a little longer before the cost/benefit analysis of their departure becomes clear.

Grand. given the waste and inefficiencies in the EU, I would say the UK will do just nicely in a number of years time, and will outlast the EU. Shame about our 200 highly paid Irish language translators, there are more of them than speak Irish here on a daily basis ffs! Maybe we could ask some of the newer member states to pay for them?

Professor Moriarty

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/847941/EU-translation-services-overspend-Ireland-priciest

It's hilarious really. Any inane anti-EU argument can be found by typing it with the "the Express" into Google.

Very ironically, the Express' Irish translator article quotes Andrew Bridgen. The Brexiteer who believes that all English people are entitled to an Irish passport.

FrancieBrady

youcantakethat wrote: »

Grand. given the waste and inefficiencies in the EU, I would say the UK will do just nicely in a number of years time, and will outlast the EU. Shame about our 200 highly paid Irish language translators, there are more of them than speak Irish here on a daily basis ffs! Maybe we could ask some of the newer member states to pay for them?

Not if they keep behaving like this. Seriously, if there is to be a new referendum, one hopes the public will better inform themselves. 'The Saintly UK' has lost it's ring.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/sep/29/eu-farming-subsidies-uk-cap-ceiling-england

But the European commission said in a statement that EU rules allow member states to substantially cut CAP “basic payments” to large landowners, such as most of those cited in the Greenpeace report, by applying a ceiling. Nine countries do so, the commission said, including Britain which applies an upper limit in Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, where the funds generated are generally spent on rural development projects.

“The UK government chooses not to apply a ceiling in England,” the commission said, adding that repeated proposals for more radical reform – including a compulsory ceiling on basic payments to large landowners – have “consistently been watered down by national ministers”.

Brussels sources said Britain played a leading part in a small group of EU members that opposed the measure. As a result, a major 2014 CAP reform package did not include a compulsory upper limit – but left open an optional ceiling that could be applied at national level.

Professor Moriarty

youcantakethat wrote: »

Grand. given the waste and inefficiencies in the EU, I would say the UK will do just nicely in a number of years time, and will outlast the EU. Shame about our 200 highly paid Irish language translators, there are more of them than speak Irish here on a daily basis ffs! Maybe we could ask some of the newer member states to pay for them?

I'm guessing you have an issue with Irish translators? Just a wild guess.

Anyway, I don't agree that Britain will be better off outside the EU. For what it's worth, neither does the British government.

An Claidheamh

youcantakethat wrote: »

Grand. given the waste and inefficiencies in the EU, I would say the UK will do just nicely in a number of years time, and will outlast the EU. Shame about our 200 highly paid Irish language translators, there are more of them than speak Irish here on a daily basis ffs! Maybe we could ask some of the newer member states to pay for them?

I thought you lot and the UKIPers regarded us Irish as their "kith and kin" - seems like they have a massive chip on their shoulder about our culture. Guess we know who are real friends are.
Thanks Daily Express!

Wish they'd stop crawling on their hands and knees for us to hug them and be their friends though.

By the way, the UK will not outlast the EU - it is the stuff of delusional - you are delusional.

Sterling has collapsed, UK is a worldwide joke, Britain does not have a population 400 million.


You and your posts are nonsense.

youcantakethat

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I'm guessing you have an issue with Irish translators?

Can anyone justify the waste of translating things in to Irish, which will NEVER be read in Irish?

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Anyway, I don't agree that Britain will be better off outside the EU. For what it's worth, neither does the British government.

Rubbish, the British government would not be Brexiting if they did not believe they would be better off in the medium / long term outside of the bullying, corrupt wasteful EU as they see it.

swampgas

youcantakethat wrote: »

Can anyone justify the waste of translating things in to Irish, which will NEVER be read in Irish?

Yes, but won't derail this thread.

Rubbish, the British government would not be Brexiting if they did not believe they would be better off in the medium / long term outside of the bullying, corrupt wasteful EU as they see it.

Odd then that most MPs think the UK will be worse off outside the EU.

youcantakethat

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Sterling has collapsed,

It has not, a euro still only buys 87 pence sterling, the same as it did ten years ago.

It is the Euro which has collapsed against the dollar, from one euro buying 1.6 dollars to 1.15 dollars now or whatever. We cannot go shopping in the States now like we did in 2007, even though there is a complete ...... running the White House. You would think the dollar would have collapsed, no it is the Euro. Not surprising I suppose when growth in the Eurozone this past 10 years was less than anywhere else in the world, less than even even the US or UK.

youcantakethat

youcantakethat wrote: »

Grand. given the waste and inefficiencies in the EU, I would say the UK will do just nicely in a number of years time, and will outlast the EU. Shame about our 200 highly paid Irish language translators, there are more of them than speak Irish here on a daily basis ffs! Maybe we could ask some of the newer member states to pay for them?

Where is "here"?