Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

prawnsambo

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Immigration from the EU8 is now negative due to many factors , most likely being UK economy falling behind theirs, the drop in Sterling and increased xenophobia.

BTW Poles coming over to the UK and taking jobs has being going on for a long time. During the Battle of Britain they took out an eight of the German planes.

Ironically and amusingly, German hospitals are now making a concerted effort to woo Polish nurses working in the UK. Promising such blandishments as better pay, working conditions, food and... proximity to Poland.

Water John

Lb may abstain on TM's Deal provided it's put to the people. So that would be TM's Deal or Remain on the ballot.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/28/labour-moving-towards-plan-to-let-mays-brexit-deal-pass-if-it-faces-public-vote

prawnsambo

Water John wrote: »

Lb may abstain on TM's Deal provided it's put to the people. So that would be TM's Deal or Remain on the ballot.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/28/labour-moving-towards-plan-to-let-mays-brexit-deal-pass-if-it-faces-public-vote

Yeah, but that's another amendment which even if passed, there's no guarantee that the Tories will follow through on it. They could call a referendum, but the wording would be entirely in their power and of course another amendment could strip the Labour one out. Bit of a hostage to fortune imo.

J Mysterio

Oh. They are saying that they will abstain on May Deal only after a referendum backs it.

So their policy is to wait till the 12th and vote for three days:

* no to May Deal
* no to No Deal
* Yes to extension for 2nd Referendum

Risky stuff.

J Mysterio

29 days till Brexit. 28 in 20 minutes.

It will be 15 days till Brexit after the scheduled 'extension vote'.

Assuming no to May Deal, no to No Deal and Yes to extension, they will have to agree what they want to extend for (presumably 2nd ref) and the terms for this.

There will be less than 15 sitting days of parliament.

Then all EU would have to agree to these proposals in time.

UK will presumably also have to repeal leave legislation.

J Mysterio

No Deal ads coming soon apparently. A historic moment for all concerned.

https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1101088733712007169

Peregrinus

J Mysterio wrote: »

29 days till Brexit. 28 in 20 minutes.

It will be 15 days till Brexit after the scheduled 'extension vote'.

Assuming no to May Deal, no to No Deal and Yes to extension, they will have to agree what they want to extend for (presumably 2nd ref) and the terms for this.

There will be less than 15 sitting days of parliament.

Then all EU would have to agree to these proposals in time.

The EU Council meets on 21/22 March. That's when any extension will be granted.

J Mysterio wrote: »

UK will presumably also have to repeal leave legislation.

If an extension is granted? No. There's a power in the Act for the Minister, by order, to defer Brexit date from 29 March to any later date that may be agreed between the UK and the Council.

Peregrinus

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

This, apparently, is news:

http://twitter.com/EmmaVardyTV/status/1101155060292173824

reslfj wrote: »

"Not going to happen" /EU27

Lars

It is nevertheless news, because it represents a willingness by Wilson (and the DUP) to shift away from their so far inflexible position of absolute opposition to the backstop. And, once they start to shift, there's no reason to think that they'll necessarily stop shifting at the point that Sammy is now at.

ancapailldorcha

In other news, about 80 years after the people of Jarrow marched to London to protest against unemployment and poverty, it looks like Nigel Farage and the nebulously funded right wing Turning Point UK organisation are marching for the opposite. I'm not sure what they think they'll achieve after the 700,000 People's Vote march failed to sway public opinion.

seamus

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

EU migration lowest for 10 years, Non-EU migration highest for 15 years.

There's the bitter irony. Brexit was about taking control of borders, and to paraphrase a poster on another thread, ensuring that the "Good" (read: not criminal) EU migrants could get in while the "Bad" (read: criminal savages) non-EU migrants could not.
And it's had the exact opposite effect. It appears that leaving the EU will apparently flood the UK with exactly the kind of migrants that Brexiteers voted to keep out.

Sterling work. Surely someone should be pointing out now to Brexiteers that the best way to avoid an influx of people with the wrong skin color and the wrong religion is to stay in the EU?

Balanadan wrote: »

How's everyone's Brexit preparations going?

Not at all tbh. It doesn't really affect me home or work wise. As we approach the end of March I might stock up a shelf with a couple of weeks of tinned food in case there's a shortage of some staple. But I don't see any major issue on the horizon for me.

Leroy42

seamus wrote: »

There's the bitter irony. Brexit was about taking control of borders, and to paraphrase a poster on another thread, ensuring that the "Good" (read: not criminal) EU migrants could get in while the "Bad" (read: criminal savages) non-EU migrants could not.
And it's had the exact opposite effect. It appears that leaving the EU will apparently flood the UK with exactly the kind of migrants that Brexiteers voted to keep out.

Sterling work. Surely someone should be pointing out now to Brexiteers that the best way to avoid an influx of people with the wrong skin color and the wrong religion is to stay in the EU?

But one doesn't follow the other. As was the case prior to Brexit, the UK is completely in control of immigration from Non-EU. So an increase in immigration from Non-EU is being allowed, it isn't just happening. It could be stopped tomorrow if the will was there, simply stop issuing visas.

So leaving the EU should, in theory, not result in any increase but should, on the assumption that immigration was a leading factor in the Brexit vote for many, actually lead to significantly reduced overall immigration as Non-EU is further controlled and EU is now fully controlled.

Seth Brundle

On Question Time last night...
https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1101433556113465344

Whereas German comedian Henning Wehn points out the futility of holding yet another referendum...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxtB8f4WcIw

Professor Moriarty

Here's Brexiteer Raab, commenting today, on how he believes that the EU isn't living up to its ideal of solidarity and unity (the ironing is delicious) by 'using' the backstop to twist Britain's arm:

It is very clear that they have used the Northern Ireland protocol and backstop as a means of trying to press on the sensitive issue of Northern Ireland, with all the sensitivities around that, in order effectively to try and lock us into a range of their laws, really just to undercut our competitiveness ...

I think trying to use Northern Ireland, given the history of that conflict, given the secessionist tendencies in other European countries, in order to put pressure on us in the way that they have, no, I don’t think that’s right. And, frankly, I don’t think it’s right from the point of view of European unity and solidarity


And here's a wonderful riposte by tweet from MP Joanna Cherry:

Dominic Raab’s disgraceful comments & ill informed comments on #backstop on @BBCr4today are indicative of a mindset that cannot understand why #EU won’t throw #Ireland under the bus because that’s what his ilk have done for 800 years

ancapailldorcha

I found this infograph from Yougov quite interesting:



It's very much as expected though Theresa May's name is in the middle of the list. Seems the fact that she was a tacit remainer has been forgotten.

lawred2

The EU

The EU is stopping no one leaving. The UK can leave right now if they want. It is the UK that knows it needs a deal to prevent economic death.

ancapailldorcha

lawred2 wrote: »

The EU

The EU is stopping no one leaving. The UK can leave right now if they want. It is the UK that knows it needs a deal to prevent economic death.

You and I know that but we both post regularly on a tightly moderated Politics forum. I'm sure you'll correct me if necessary but I'm going to assume that you've not been drinking significantly from the poisoned well that is the British press.

Leroy42

In Hennings QT contribution, he got a great laugh and a round of applause because the audience completely missed that he called them all stupid.

"If you were daft enough to fall for the the 350m quid a week for the NHS lie, well if you're that stupid you'll fall for something equally daft the next time"

This hits the nail on the head against a 2nd Ref. People are still totally uneducated about the issue and running a 2nd Ref, without the proper information campaign and ability to stop people simply making stuff up, is pointless.

seamus

The graphic above is a good illustration of why a hard Brexit is probably the best thing in the long-term for the EU.

RobMc59

Sam Russell wrote: »

Not as angry as the Russians wre in 1963 when the Irish Navy arrsted a Russian trawler for fishing within the three mile limit. They refused to be arrested and so the Navy opened fire, knocking the rust off the railings of the trawler. They were escorted to Waterford. They had mackeral on board.

Quite a coup for the Irish Navy.

Armed warships arresting little fishing boats,posters celebrating warships firing on rusty old trawlers..Can you imagine if it was the UK doing this?..

10000maniacs

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Here's Brexiteer Raab, commenting today, on how he believes that the EU isn't living up to its ideal of solidarity and unity (the ironing is delicious) by 'using' the backstop to twist Britain's arm:

It is very clear that they have used the Northern Ireland protocol and backstop as a means of trying to press on the sensitive issue of Northern Ireland, with all the sensitivities around that, in order effectively to try and lock us into a range of their laws, really just to undercut our competitiveness ...

I think trying to use Northern Ireland, given the history of that conflict, given the secessionist tendencies in other European countries, in order to put pressure on us in the way that they have, no, I don’t think that’s right. And, frankly, I don’t think it’s right from the point of view of European unity and solidarity


And here's a wonderful riposte by tweet from MP Joanna Cherry:

Dominic Raab’s disgraceful comments & ill informed comments on #backstop on @BBCr4today are indicative of a mindset that cannot understand why #EU won’t throw #Ireland under the bus because that’s what his ilk have done for 800 years

I think it's a disgrace that BBC commentators on Radio 4 don't challenge these guys on their statements. The likes of Rabb, Davis and Bridgen have rolled up into a stumbling mess previously when forensically challenged on their logic on other radio stations. But the BBC never goes down that road.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: FYI, youcantakethat has been banned for reregging to evade a ban so there's no need to report his posts. For now at least.

Call me Al

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I found this infograph from Yougov quite interesting:



It's very much as expected though Theresa May's name is in the middle of the list. Seems the fact that she was a tacit remainer has been forgotten.

I'm very surprised Ireland and/or the Irish government weren't specifically listed as an option. Reading social media the contempt towards us from many quarters is noticeable.

AbusesToilets

Leroy42 wrote: »

In Hennings QT contribution, he got a great laugh and a round of applause because the audience completely missed that he called them all stupid.



This hits the nail on the head against a 2nd Ref. People are still totally uneducated about the issue and running a 2nd Ref, without the proper information campaign and ability to stop people simply making stuff up, is pointless.

Speaks to the fundamental failing of the Parliment, that they would abdicate the responsibility for rescinding Article 50 to a referendum.

swampgas

RobMc59 wrote: »

Armed warships arresting little fishing boats,posters celebrating warships firing on rusty old trawlers..Can you imagine if it was the UK doing this?..

Why, does Ireland protecting itself against illegal fishing operations upset you? Is little old Ireland getting above itself, in your view?

How dare we assert our sovereignty

johnnyskeleton

RobMc59 wrote: »

Armed warships arresting little fishing boats,posters celebrating warships firing on rusty old trawlers..Can you imagine if it was the UK doing this?..

swampgas wrote: »

Why, does Ireland protecting itself against illegal fishing operations upset you? Is little old Ireland getting above itself, in your view?

How dare we assert our sovereignty

Mod note:

Mabye a little less rhetoric please?

Infini

lawred2 wrote: »

The EU

The EU is stopping no one leaving. The UK can leave right now if they want. It is the UK that knows it needs a deal to prevent economic death.

Honestly I would not worry bout this too much. They can try blaming the EU but blaming someone else wont change the facts that theyre in the situation by their own choice and they were given an out. They created this they own this.

RobMc59

swampgas wrote: »

Why, does Ireland protecting itself against illegal fishing operations upset you? Is little old Ireland getting above itself, in your view?

How dare we assert our sovereignty

Is it protecting or bullying?It`s also interesting to note the UK is`nt enforcing this and has`nt stopped Irish boats fishing in UK waters.

ancapailldorcha

Call me Al wrote: »

I'm very surprised Ireland and/or the Irish government weren't specifically listed as an option. Reading social media the contempt towards us from many quarters is noticeable.

I think the middle aged and older people who constitute most of the Leave vote are less likely to use social media. That might be why.

josip

No surprises about the EU being in 2nd place, well, surprised it wasn't top of the list.

I am surprised Jeremy Corbyn makes it in at Number 4.
What has he done to prevent Brexit?

Varta

RobMc59 wrote: »

Armed warships arresting little fishing boats,posters celebrating warships firing on rusty old trawlers..Can you imagine if it was the UK doing this?..

Not quite on the scale of the Belgrano though, is it?