Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

An Ciarraioch

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You mean you didn't find his experience of going to the Supreme Soviet illuminating?

The Telegraph is doubling down on pieces like this recently, trying to harden their No Deal editorial stance and assumed readership. Carney says something that can be vaguely interpreted as positive for No Deal and they're all over it, when they spend weeks vilifying him earlier in the year.

Seems the author was a member of the US Republicans for eleven years, and was the only Estonian MP to reject the European Constitution:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Gräzin

Leroy42

It merely a soap opera at this point. They need to look like they did everything they can, the trade union dispute that is settled in the wee hours. I always get the impression that it could have been resolved during the day but then the people involved can't claim to have done everything.

Cox needs to rush back to the HoC, bleary eyed and clearly lacking sleep to almost collapse into the HoC.

All the reports seem to suggest that they is nothing of any real substance being actually talked about, there is no 'new way' being thrashed out.

seamus

robinph wrote: »

Doesn't really matter what passport you use on leaving a country, they don't care as you are leaving and there is only ever one queue to leave through security. Use the EU one for the EU bound flight and the UK one for the UK bound flight.

I think the question was more about the fact that the airline will often ask for passport details and how you would manage booking a return trip because airlines won't take two passports for the one person.

The missing piece is that the airline don't care, it's an ID & box-ticking exercise for them.

The main queues are at immigration desks, who don't rely on the airlines to provide them with passport info.

So you land in Malaga and show your EU passport at the Spanish desk. On the way home, you show your UK passport at the British desk. For the airline, you just choose one of them and go with that.

ancapailldorcha

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You mean you didn't find his experience of going to the Supreme Soviet illuminating?

The Telegraph is doubling down on pieces like this recently, trying to harden their No Deal editorial stance and assumed readership. Carney says something that can be vaguely interpreted as positive for No Deal and they're all over it, when they spend weeks vilifying him earlier in the year.

Christ, I thought that was the Spectator. Too many big words to be a Mail or Sun piece.

Is this supposed to be clickbait or something? The Telegraph was supposed to be a fairly serious publication until fairly recently.

Professor Moriarty

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Christ, I thought that was the Spectator. Too many big words to be a Mail or Sun piece.

Is this supposed to be clickbait or something? The Telegraph was supposed to be a fairly serious publication until fairly recently.

The Telegraph is worse than The Express. The Express has shrill anti-EU headlines but when you read their articles they are quite balanced. The Telegraph is a series of pro-Brexit opinion pieces interspersed with pro-Brexit opinion pieces dressed up as news articles. The Telegraph is now a mouthpiece for the Tory Right and has long since abandoned any pretence of being a serious newspaper.

LuckyLloyd

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Christ, I thought that was the Spectator. Too many big words to be a Mail or Sun piece.

Is this supposed to be clickbait or something? The Telegraph was supposed to be a fairly serious publication until fairly recently.

It's not a serious publication, at least it hasn't been during the last three years I've held a subscription. No Deal is their editorial policy, which I don't find remotely credible.

Seth Brundle

Huge queues as French customs staff stage Brexit drill for Eurostar at Gare du Nord in Paris

Train services from Paris to London were delayed and there were huge queues today as French customs staff staged “Brexit-style” security checks at the Gare du Nord.

As passengers and trains were hit by delays of up to two hours, one border guard declared: “This will be what it is like after Brexit. Back to 1970s.”

Customs officials are convinced that clearing passengers for Eurostar services from the French capital will become much harder once Britain leaves the EU.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/huge-queues-as-french-customs-staff-stage-brexit-drill-for-eurostar-at-gare-du-nord-in-paris-a4084316.html

Adamcp898

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It's actually rather fabulous, I enjoyed a chuckle at numerous parts.

Was half expecting to hear the "Call to Arms" sound when I reached the end. Everyone have their shovel handy?

ToBeFrank123

The UK press played a huge role in Brexit before, during and after the referendum campaign. They also deserve a lot of the blame for the mess due to their influence on the public mood. But the media never hold the media to account. They will point fingers elsewhere.

Akrasia

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It's not a serious publication, at least it hasn't been during the last three years I've held a subscription. No Deal is their editorial policy, which I don't find remotely credible.

Why do you give them the money by subscribing to them when they are using that revenue to misinform the public on politics and climate change denial?

(unless you hold a subscription through a university or your employment)

Curly Judge

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You mean you didn't find his experience of going to the Supreme Soviet illuminating?

The Telegraph is doubling down on pieces like this recently, trying to harden their No Deal editorial stance and assumed readership. Carney says something that can be vaguely interpreted as positive for No Deal and they're all over it, when they spend weeks vilifying him earlier in the year.

The whole editorial board are spitting feathers these days with a fair dollop of hen-shyte mixed in.
Poor Darlings!

LuckyLloyd

Akrasia wrote: »

Why do you give them the money by subscribing to them when they are using that revenue to misinform the public on politics and climate change denial?

(unless you hold a subscription through a university or your employment)

Because I find it fascinating. I read their political opinions in awe at the brazen way in which they lie, obfuscate, spin and manipulate. I also believe that anyone with a keen interest in Brexit owes it to themselves to read and familiarise themselves with the other arguments, such as they are.

I understand the downside of that - giving them money - but the alternative is wallowing completely in my own bubble.

Inquitus

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Because I find it fascinating. I read their political opinions in awe at the brazen way in which they lie, obfuscate, spin and manipulate. I also believe that anyone with a keen interest in Brexit owes it to themselves to read and familiarise themselves with the other arguments, such as they are.

I understand the downside of that - giving them money - but the alternative is wallowing completely in my own bubble.

I couldn't countenance encouraging them with my hard earned euros! Telegraph, Daily Mail and the Express are on my blacklist!

LuckyLloyd

Inquitus wrote: »

I couldn't countenance encouraging them with my hard earned euros! Telegraph, Daily Mail and the Express are on my blacklist!

I hear ya, believe me I do. But I think completely insulating yourself from the nonsense of the other side is dangerous. The Telegraph is real, it’s influential and you can’t pretend it isn’t there!

Strazdas

The Telegraph are losing readers at a rate of knots. The circulation drop was in double figures in the last 12 months. It looks like a lot of people realise they are no longer reading a newspaper.

murphaph

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I hear ya, believe me I do. But I think completely insulating yourself from the nonsense of the other side is dangerous. The Telegraph is real, it’s influential and you can’t pretend it isn’t there!

Agree. I read the Express most days. It's a parallel universe of alternative facts and the comments are useful in understanding an alien mindset.

prawnsambo

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I hear ya, believe me I do. But I think completely insulating yourself from the nonsense of the other side is dangerous. The Telegraph is real, it’s influential and you can’t pretend it isn’t there!

Yeah, but you don't need to give them money. An email address allows you read two 'premium' articles a week online, two gives you four, etc.

J Mysterio

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It's not a serious publication, at least it hasn't been during the last three years I've held a subscription. No Deal is their editorial policy, which I don't find remotely credible.

Why on earth would you give these goons your money?

Edit: have seen reasoning. Still wouldnt subsidise them.

bob mcbob

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I hear ya, believe me I do. But I think completely insulating yourself from the nonsense of the other side is dangerous. The Telegraph is real, it’s influential and you can’t pretend it isn’t there!

I understand your reasoning but the owners of this paper are not very nice.

This is a famous story of those noted democrats, the Barclay brothers.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/dec/12/barclay-brothers-sark-democratic-election

Snickers Man

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

You'd wonder how many of these new passport applicants are DUP/Conservative/Leave voters. I'd say a good many. They want the best of both worlds.

Isn't that what Boris calls "having your cake and eating it"?

Thargor

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It's actually rather fabulous, I enjoyed a chuckle at numerous parts.

Peregrinus wrote: »

Well, that's three minutes I won't get back.

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Christ, I thought that was the Spectator. Too many big words to be a Mail or Sun piece.

Is this supposed to be clickbait or something? The Telegraph was supposed to be a fairly serious publication until fairly recently.

I actually groaned out loud when I got to the Y2K bit.

Do some people genuinely not grasp that Y2K preparation was a massive success that prevented a major disaster?

Capt'n Midnight

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Meanwhile, this what they are reading in the Telegraph this morning.:pac:


The British defeated the EU - you should be demanding surrender terms, not offering them


wow, just wow

You'd expect it from an old Etonian


But no, Igor Gräzin is an old Estonian who used to be on the Supreme Soviet of the Soviet Union. *wonders* if there's a Russian connection.

Sovereignty is letting foreigners telling you how to ruin your own country ?

Snickers Man

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

DUP under pressure from Bombardier to accept Mays deal.

In Irish Times. Big employers up there.

Big? I believe they're the biggest single private sector employer in the Province.

Also, most of their work at the moment, I believe, is sub contract work on behalf of Airbus. And that is extremely vulnerable to anything even slightly firmer than a Brexit so soft as to be squishy.

Much has been made of the travails of the British car industry of late. To be fair, a more accurate description would be "the car industry based in Britain" as so little of it is actually British.

Honda announced they were closing their Swindon plant. "Nothing to do with Brexit" they said. All to do with de-emphasising diesel and shifting towards electric motors. Let's take that at face value for the time being.

Earlier, Nissan had announced that it was not, after all, going to manufacture two new models in Sunderland. They would be made in Japan instead. Now that was entirely to do with Brexit, but note, they are not closing the factory yet. But they ARE absolutely hedging their bets. Depends on what sort of deal they get after Brexit.

That's the car industry. Many players, highly competitive and very advantageous to have manufacturing close to market.

The commercial airline industry by contrast is largely a duopoly: two massive companies dominate the world wide market for most passenger jets. One is the American Boeing; the other is the European Airbus. There are some smaller players around the world but nobody to match these two.

Of course they have always to be looking over their shoulder for new entrants from places like India or China. And they have to be absolutely sure of their supply chains.

I would imagine that Airbus is such a strategically important company to Europe that NOTHING would be allowed to disrupt their supply chains. Any sort of fecking about with tariffs or regulatory delays would just not be tolerated.

The Airbus plants in Wales and England must be vulnerable, and the one in Northern Ireland, albeit a subcontract facility would fare no better in the event of a strategic "refocus" towards more solid dependable EU locations.

It would be a huge irony, and a serious economic blow, to Northern Ireland if hello Brexit was followed by Bye Bye Bombardier. And it would disproportionately affect the hardline unionist community that makes up the majority of Bombardier workers.

It would also do little for peace and calm in the north. Any temptation to Schadenfreude should Brexit deliver such a bite in the arse to a DUP stronghold should be tempered by that knowledge.

Mr.Nice Guy

The Secretary of State Karen Bradley's incredible comments today that murders committed by security forces during the Troubles were 'not crimes' to me has the DUP's fingerprints all over it.

There seems to be a very strong push right now in Westminster to try and absolve British soldiers of any responsibility for what happened during the conflict. I don't think the timing of this is coincidental. I think the DUP will make this front and centre of any election campaign they have to fight in the coming years, counting on their base being placated by this even if the economy takes a bad turn. Sadly, I think they're likely to be right that their core supporters will lap this up.

Capt'n Midnight

Silent Running wrote: »

As an aside he said that some battery company was moving to the UK to produce batteries for electric cars. I'm fairly tuned in to that market and I've never heard of this proposed move. He said he read it in the papers over there. Could it be more lies in print? ... hmmm.

Maybe it was this ?

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/aug/30/dyson-expand-hullavington-wiltshire-facility-boost-electric-car-tests

Sir James Dyson, the billionaire inventor and Brexit backer, has unveiled expansion plans to accommodate more than 2,000 workers at his Wiltshire research facility, more than doubling capacity for electric-vehicle testing.

But of course since then he's announced that production would be in Singapore. The UK is defo down at least one big battery company.

oscarBravo

Thargor wrote: »

Do some people genuinely not grasp that Y2K preparation was a massive success that prevented a major disaster?

Almost nobody, outside of those of us who slaved diligently for five years or more to avert that disaster, understands that at all. To the average pleb, "Y2k" is a synonym for "overhyped scaremongering".

averagejoesgym

I'm from Ireland but I have been working in Oxford for almost 2 years. I work with people who have family members working in the massive BMW mini factory. The attitude to Brexit is astonishing. I keep hearing "just leave whatever the cost"

The local newspaper The Oxford Mail comment section gives a flavour of the attitudes.

https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/17479536.councils-react-to-bmw-brexit-concerns-in-oxford/

prawnsambo

averagejoesgym wrote: »

I'm from Ireland but I have been working in Oxford for almost 2 years. I work with people who have family members working in the massive BMW mini factory. The attitude to Brexit is astonishing. I keep hearing "just leave whatever the cost"

The local newspaper The Oxford Mail comment section gives a flavour of the attitudes.

https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/17479536.councils-react-to-bmw-brexit-concerns-in-oxford/

And some of the comments are fairly mind-blowing:

Here is a message to BMW - sod off and go.
House prices in oxford might then actually drop to reasonable levels.

They have been planning this for years, Brexit gives an convenient excuse. In any case its all part of the campaign to accept the deal. Go, go now, go with no deal.

Rubbish - sorry. Brexit has nothing to do with the Good Friday agreement or the partition of Ireland - it's about a trade/customs border relating to goods passing to and from the European Union.

The Good Friday agreement was about personal 'ownership' - i.e. to which nation do you subscribe? The nationality of the people - totally different - I'm surprised people are too stupid to see that including the EU which is pedalling the prevarication to it's own end.

Akrasia

Thargor wrote: »

I actually groaned out loud when I got to the Y2K bit.

Do some people genuinely not grasp that Y2K preparation was a massive success that prevented a major disaster?

They're the same people who think they don't need to vaccinate their children because there haven't been any measels outbreaks in ages

prawnsambo

So this seems to be what the 'robust' discussions were about. No more faffing about, come up with something in two days or good luck.