Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

Enzokk

janfebmar wrote: »

And next time we need a bailout, like we did not so many years ago, I doubt the British will be among the first to help us when nobody else would lend us money, like they helped us last time.

We need them more than they need us, German car makers, French wine and cheese, etc.


In other news, I could say a lot about this story but most of it is just insults towards Banks so I will not go that far.

Arron Banks 'ignored deal to stop pro-Brexit ads' after Jo Cox death

Arron Banks ordered his Leave.EU campaign group to continue promoting pro-Brexit adverts in the wake of the murder of Jo Cox, despite an agreement to suspend campaigning, according to Channel 4 News.

Immediately after the MP’s killing, politicians on both sides of the EU referendum debate agreed to the suspension, and remain and leave campaigners cancelled speeches and events.

However Channel 4 News said it had seen email sent the morning after Cox’s murder from Banks, Leave.EU’s key financial backer, to his assistant Liz Bilney, the campaign group’s chief executive, that read: “Keep pumping the McKenna video” and “up the Spend A”.

Unsurprisingly he hasn't responded to this because he is on a ski holiday.

Capt'n Midnight

Sam Russell wrote: »

Their constitution relies on precedents - and if there isn't one handy, they will invent one. Works every time.

Or drag up stuff like the the Statute of Proclamations 1539, which allowed Henry VIIII to overrule Parliament with a swift flick of the quill.

A lot of tradition has changed recently. Look at how the role of the Speaker has changed, and how the govt have responded. In 2015, with Labour's support, he survived after a proposed rule change that was seen as an attempt to oust him by the Tory government. And he may be the first Speaker in two centuries who won't get a peerage.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/order-order-the-sharp-tongued-speaker-of-the-house-of-commons-is-changing-the-rules--and-maybe-brexit/2019/01/27/ff0c18c4-1b61-11e9-b8e6-567190c2fd08_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.48bd16da2b77

Brexit has turned everything upside down, and Bercow has transformed into an extraordinary player, whose broad interpretation of parliamentary rules and upending of tradition have allowed backbenchers in Parliament to wrest partial control over which direction Brexit might go.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, they loaned us money to save themselves.

No, the UK, IMF and EU lent us money to save ourselves.
Here is a report from Nov 2010:
"Ireland has finally been forced to take an economic bail-out from the European Union.

After a humiliating week of denying it needed help, the Dublin government succumbed to pressure from other euro zone countries and asked for a “very big” loan.

G7 and euro zone finance ministers including George Osborne, the Chancellor, held emergency telephone conference talks on a combined EU-IMF rescue package of up to £77billion.

British taxpayers now face paying a bill of at least £7billion and possibly as much as £9billion because, under a deal signed by the last Labour government, British taxpayers are liable to share in the cost of any EU bail-out.

This represents upwards of £300 for every family in the UK."

How people forget.

Leroy42

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

That's not good either.

We might also want to leave one day and don't want to be kicked around for doing so either.

Nobody is kicking anyone around. Can you explain what you mean by that?

Any country can leave, as the UK are proving, but there are consequences that need to be faced.

The problem the UK have is they never actually discussed the real consequences prior to the vote, either making sweeping statements about recessions or ignoring everything based on 'Project Fear'.

So they find themselves not only having to negotiate but trying to sell the negotiation as anything other than a capitulation since they told people they could get everything they wanted. If you are promised everything than anything less will seem like a failure.

Even now, TM is twisting and turning rather than facing up, and telling the country, of the consequences of their decision. You voted for Brexit, this is what it means. instead they are blaming the EU, inparty fighting and continuing with soundbites and outright lies.

It seems it has come as a surprise that the club to which they contributed billions each year actually has some benefits, benefits that people weren't aware but don't want to give up.

Akrasia

janfebmar wrote: »

And next time we need a bailout, like we did not so many years ago, I doubt the British will be among the first to help us when nobody else would lend us money, like they helped us last time.

They lent us the money we needed to pay their banks back

Inquitus

janfebmar wrote: »

No, the UK, IMF and EU lent us money to save ourselves.
Here is a report from Nov 2010:
"Ireland has finally been forced to take an economic bail-out from the European Union.

After a humiliating week of denying it needed help, the Dublin government succumbed to pressure from other euro zone countries and asked for a “very big” loan.

G7 and euro zone finance ministers including George Osborne, the Chancellor, held emergency telephone conference talks on a combined EU-IMF rescue package of up to £77billion.

British taxpayers now face paying a bill of at least £7billion and possibly as much as £9billion because, under a deal signed by the last Labour government, British taxpayers are liable to share in the cost of any EU bail-out.

This represents upwards of £300 for every family in the UK."

How people forget.

That's if we didn't pay it back, so basically a load of bollox

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

No, the UK, IMF and EU lent us money to save ourselves.
Here is a report from Nov 2010:
"Ireland has finally been forced to take an economic bail-out from the European Union.

After a humiliating week of denying it needed help, the Dublin government succumbed to pressure from other euro zone countries and asked for a “very big” loan.

G7 and euro zone finance ministers including George Osborne, the Chancellor, held emergency telephone conference talks on a combined EU-IMF rescue package of up to £77billion.

British taxpayers now face paying a bill of at least £7billion and possibly as much as £9billion because, under a deal signed by the last Labour government, British taxpayers are liable to share in the cost of any EU bail-out.

This represents upwards of £300 for every family in the UK."

How people forget.

That is what 'unions' are for. From the Credit Union to the European Union.

The UK had to go to the IMF themselves, before they got into the safety of the European Union.

Irishmale0399

janfebmar wrote: »

No, the UK, IMF and EU lent us money to save ourselves.
Here is a report from Nov 2010:
"Ireland has finally been forced to take an economic bail-out from the European Union.

After a humiliating week of denying it needed help, the Dublin government succumbed to pressure from other euro zone countries and asked for a “very big” loan.

G7 and euro zone finance ministers including George Osborne, the Chancellor, held emergency telephone conference talks on a combined EU-IMF rescue package of up to £77billion.

British taxpayers now face paying a bill of at least £7billion and possibly as much as £9billion because, under a deal signed by the last Labour government, British taxpayers are liable to share in the cost of any EU bail-out.

This represents upwards of £300 for every family in the UK."

How people forget.

Who gave the Irish banks the money in the first place??? Who was securing the loans in the background????


The British government gave us the money to protect their own banks and insurance industry as they were the ones together with the Deutsche Bank that were securing the loans or carrying the insurance policies in the background. They and I mean the full EU didnt bail us out because they are a great bunch of lads.......they did it to protect their own economies and banks. And the money wasnt given as a present...it was a loan with hefty interest rates and penalties for early repayment.

listermint

What's particularly depressing or perplexing depending on your viewpoint is that brexit is not essentially about the EU . Its really about disaster capitalism. The EU is a tool for this.

The UK by its very nature is asset rich. London especially. As found out by 2008. Wealthy players became absolutely ultra wealthy through disaster investments. Asset stripping vulture funds. And investigating in firms specialised in all of this. 2008 honed the skills of these players and they've been yearning for something similar to happen.

It's why you have wealthy protagonists across the board or the coat tail wealthy who elbow in circles of wealth yearning for their own pay day.

Consistently wealthy Tories. Wealthy business people. They want brexit. It's the reason we hear things like tusk being a fascist and nazi references to the EU. They are trying to annoy the EU so much with this that it puts deal beyond conclusion.


And the gauling part.

Poor people voting for it and parroting the lines all the while voting for losing their own jobs. Their own homes . Their own services to privatisation.

Absolute dim ..... Beyond bloody dim. I sometimes want to climb inside the TV and shake people screaming at them 'that rich b**stard behind the mic over there is robbing your futue.'.

WomanSkirtFan8

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

Who gave the Irish banks the money in the first place??? Who was securing the loans in the background????


The EU and the IMF dude. :rolleyes:

janfebmar

listermint wrote: »

They are trying to annoy the EU so much with this that it puts deal beyond conclusion.

I think most of the insults are coming from the EU side eg the EU person Tusk saying that Brexiteers had a "special place in hell" etc

"Brexiteers will have a 'special place in hell' declares EU chief Donald Tusk"

Leroy42

janfebmar wrote: »

listermint wrote: »

They are trying to annoy the EU so much with this that it puts deal beyond conclusion.

I think most of the insults are coming from the EU side eg the EU person saying that Brexiters had a "special place in hell" etc

Yeah but nobody said that.

Can you provide a link to that quote please?

Tell me how

janfebmar wrote: »

I think most of the insults are coming from the EU side eg the EU person Tusk saying that Brexiteers had a "special place in hell" etc

"Brexiteers will have a 'special place in hell' declares EU chief Donald Tusk"

You got the quote wrong kid.

RobMc59

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yeah but nobody said that.

Can you provide a link to that quote please?

https://www.politico.eu/article/__trashed-21/

Enzokk

janfebmar wrote: »

I think most of the insults are coming from the EU side eg the EU person Tusk saying that Brexiteers had a "special place in hell" etc

"Brexiteers will have a 'special place in hell' declares EU chief Donald Tusk"

I just had a massive feeling of deja-vu. In any case you should be aware that he did not say that. You will need to (again?) provide proper links to statements if you are not stating your opinion.

Here, I will show you how it should be done.

Donald Tusk's special place in hell looks like where we are right now

After a Brussels press conference punctuated with knowing sighs, in which he again made clear the withdrawal agreement was not up for renegotiation but that – as a gesture of goodwill – he was willing to entertain sensible alternative suggestions from the UK government, the EU council’s president concluded with a simple thought. “I’ve been wondering,” he mused, “what that special place in hell looks like, for those who promoted Brexit without even a sketch of a plan how to carry it out safely.”

See, and hopefully you will see that your original statement is wrong, he did not call you or your mates that knocked on doors for Brexit to go to hell. He said that those who promoted Brexit, the likes of Johnson and Gove and Farage, to go to hell as they were supposed to have the plan as they were at the forefront and were the promoters for Brexit.

Headshot

janfebmar wrote: »

I think most of the insults are coming from the EU side eg the EU person saying that Brexiters had a "special place in hell" etc

What a load of nonsense. The Brexiters are destroying their country for their own selfish needs and Tusk was right on the money. These people are a small minority in UK politics and cannot be reasoned with. Their hatred and vile always comes to the surface

The amount of ****e the Brexiters have said about the EU is disgraceful from liking European leaders to Nazis and Soviets. The list is endless with the amount of insults thrown from the Brexiters.

Enzokk

RobMc59 wrote: »

https://www.politico.eu/article/__trashed-21/

Will you post his quote in the article where he said those who voted for Brexit, Brexiteers, has a special place in hell reserved for them?

I will save you the time, he did not say what our new (old?) friend posted as you should know.

janfebmar

Tell me how wrote: »

You got the quote wrong kid.

Plenty of people voted for Brexit (was it 22 million?), so Tusk was insulting those peoples political decisions when he insulted those Brexit politicians.



After the press conference ended, Varadkar was picked up on a microphone saying "they'll give you terrible trouble, the British, for this." Tusk nodded and laughed. So there you have it, two people sniggering and gloating about the British. Not the EC's finest hour. I hope it come back to haunt them.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

Plenty of people voted for Brexit (was it 22 million?), so Tusk was insulting those peoples political decisions when he insulted those Brexit politicians.



After the press conference ended, Varadkar was picked up on a microphone saying "they'll give you terrible trouble, the British, for this." Tusk nodded and laughed. So there you have it, two people sniggering and gloating about the British. Not the EC's finest hour. I hope it come back to haunt them.

Varadkar, was right. The British press mis-interpreted (willfully) what he said, like you have.

Nody

janfebmar wrote: »

Plenty of people voted for Brexit (was it 22 million?), so Tusk was insulting those peoples political decisions when he insulted those Brexit politicians.

If you want to stop making a complete fool of yourself start using basic things such as facts and links to your claims. I'll even give you a head start on how, use google because so far you're making claims which are simply outright fake news as in what you claim has not happened, the numbers you claim are outright wrong by millions etc.

fash

janfebmar wrote: »

They loaned us money so we could keep our lights on / pay our public servants and social welfare and pensions.

They certainly did not - they did it solely to protect their own banks.
The UK’s attitude to Ireland has changed little from famine times - the idea that they are so altruistic and care deeply about Irish pensioners, social welfare dependents and public servants is the most ludicrous thing I have heard in quite some time.

Indestructable

janfebmar wrote: »

Plenty of people voted for Brexit (was it 22 million?), so Tusk was insulting those peoples political decisions when he insulted those Brexit politicians.



After the press conference ended, Varadkar was picked up on a microphone saying "they'll give you terrible trouble, the British, for this." Tusk nodded and laughed. So there you have it, two people sniggering and gloating about the British. Not the EC's finest hour. I hope it come back to haunt them.

This is infuriating sh1te. You know exactly what youre doing too

Midlife

janfebmar wrote: »

Plenty of people voted for Brexit (was it 22 million?), so Tusk was insulting those peoples political decisions when he insulted those Brexit politicians.



After the press conference ended, Varadkar was picked up on a microphone saying "they'll give you terrible trouble, the British, for this." Tusk nodded and laughed. So there you have it, two people sniggering and gloating about the British. Not the EC's finest hour. I hope it come back to haunt them.

Wereany of them wrong?

Millionaire politicians promoting no-deal brexit by lying to the people while while probably bringing a fairly sigificant recession.

'Special place in hell'? Probably not the language I use but pretty lousy behaviour in fairness.

'They'll give you terrible trouble for this' - correct

Tusk acknowledged.

You're seem keeen to paint people as the sneering villianous bad guys.

tuxy

janfebmar wrote: »

After the press conference ended, Varadkar was picked up on a microphone saying "they'll give you terrible trouble, the British, for this." Tusk nodded and laughed. So there you have it, two people sniggering and gloating about the British. Not the EC's finest hour. I hope it come back to haunt them.

How can you get so many quotes wrong?
Varadkar said "they'll give you terrible trouble, the British Press, for this."

ancapailldorcha

A few posts have been deleted and bans issued. Having a pop at other posters is unacceptable here. Use the report function please.

Suspected rereg permabanned.

Daemonic

A quick question, if Article 50 is revoked, the HOC will still need to to vote on repealing the EU Withdrawal act, correct?

If it is correct, where does it leave the UK if the vote to repeal the act is not passed?

fash

janfebmar wrote: »

I think most of the insults are coming from the EU side eg the EU person Tusk saying that Brexiteers had a "special place in hell" etc

"Brexiteers will have a 'special place in hell' declares EU chief Donald Tusk"

Are you having a laugh - from May’s “Citizens of nowhere”, “the EU will be crushed” to Jeremy Hunt’s calling the EU the USSR, to Patel threatening Ireland with another genocidal famine and repeated statements that Ireland must “know its place (with the UK’s boot at Ireland’s throat), not a day passes without another insult from the UK - and that is just the verbal insults - the UK’s negotiations themselves have been an insult to Europe.
Turning to what Tusk actually said, I see you are misrepresenting what he said - please explain if that is a negligent misrepresentation or a willful misrepresentation on your part.
In fact Tusk said that those Brexiters who deliberately promoted Brexit and did so without a plan as to how they would leave the EU (and obviously based on lies) had a special place in hell.
(It is noteworthy that in order to claim that the EU has insulted the UK, you have been forced to distort and twist the words actually said).
I am sure that any reasonable person will agree that those people who promoted Brexit without such a plan were at best grossly negligent - and anyone who did so while claiming that there would be no negative consequences an obvious liar - that is simply fact.

jm08

janfebmar wrote: »

Plenty of people voted for Brexit (was it 22 million?), so Tusk was insulting those peoples political decisions when he insulted those Brexit politicians.

17,410,742 voted to leave. 16,141,241 voted to remain.

After the press conference ended, Varadkar was picked up on a microphone saying "they'll give you terrible trouble, the British, for this." Tusk nodded and laughed. So there you have it, two people sniggering and gloating about the British. Not the EC's finest hour. I hope it come back to haunt them.

He didn't say that. He said:
“they will give you terrible trouble in the British press for that"

As for the loan from UK:
UK lent Ireland £3.2 bn to be repaid by 2021. Fortunately its in £ not Euro as it means its cheaper to pay it back. Ireland tried to pay it all back, but unlike Denemark and Sweden who also lent us money, the UK were demanding extra for paying back early. €428 million interest has been paid back so far.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-pays-more-than-400m-in-interest-on-uk-bailout-loan-1.3053791

Spanish Eyes

Daemonic wrote: »

A quick question, if Article 50 is revoked, the HOC will still need to to vote on repealing the EU Withdrawal act, correct?

If it is correct, where does it leave the UK if the vote to repeal the act is not passed?

You could be correct there. But I don't recall a vote in HoC for invocation of A50 in the first place. I seem to recall that TM invoked A50 at her own time of choosing. Surely revocation would be on reciprocal terms.

But I may be wrong there, I often am.

tuxy

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

You could be correct there. But I don't recall a vote in HoC for invocation of A50 in the first place. I seem to recall that TM invoked A50 at her own time of choosing. Surely revocation would be on reciprocal terms.

But I may be wrong there, I often am.

MPs voted to give May the power to trigger article 50 in February 2017, she then triggered it a little under two month later.