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Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,622 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    UK are miles behind the EU in negotiating strategy. If the UK hop any which way, the EU negotiating team have already clarified the answer to it with the 27 countries.
    For example, if the UK ask for a short extension, no doubt Barnier will reply the same day.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,604 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    It is odd though that Barnier would come out like that.

    Was is supposed to come across the the much anticipated 11th hour climbdown, which TM could hold aloft in the HoC?

    I fail to understand what he was trying to achieve, it's just added more confusion to the whole thing.

    It blows apart the argument that the EU is trying to trap the U.K. in the customs union.
    Clearly all they are trying to achieve is an open border in Ireland. Which the majority of Irish people want.
    It is the U.K. who are the trappers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,875 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    Christy42 wrote: »
    Is there a way out of this for the UK?

    Drive a Delorean off the Brexit cliff at 88mph? :D

    Although I'm not sure jumping through time would change anything. What intrigues me most about Brexit as played out in the UK is that most of the verbs one might use don't apply: positions are not "unfolding" or "developing" or "evolving" or "progressing" or "shifting" in any meaningful way. Looking back at the talking heads and talking points of 2016, nothing has changed!

    In some ways, it reminds me of the Battle of the Somme (extended edition): the Brits fought for ages, completely underestimated their adversary, suffered huge losses, made absolutely no headway, and eventually called it off in a fog of dubious claims of success that haven't stood up to scrutiny.

    "Back home" on the island, all the bubbles remain intact. The defections to The Independent Group have stopped; Labour continues to witter meaninglessly; the Tories continue to squabble amongst themselves; TM keeps her seat despite losing so many meaningful votes; and other than a few booze-cruisers and hard-core Brexit preppers, the electorate appear to be almost completely ignorant of and disengaged from something that will/could significantly change their quality of life.

    For a country that supposedly wants to "take back control" of so much, there's no sign of anyone being willing or able to do just that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,379 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    If there was a snap GE, May's Tory party would get 41% and Corbyn's Labour would get 30%. Corbyn is beyond useless.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    Christy42 wrote: »
    Is there a way out of this for the UK?

    If they revoke article 50 a lot of people will be infuriated and blame the EU for everything and try again.
    GM228 wrote: »
    No matter what happens I'm sure a lot of people will blame the EU for everything.

    Listening to a local radio station here in Sheffield (well the radio station is somewhere around South Yorkshire or possibly N.Derbyshire; I don't know) whilst driving earlier and a young sounding (maybe very early twenties) woman caller to a show blamed the EU for all the knife crime in England at the moment. I have to say it's one thing to argue a point with someone, it's quite another to suffer a fool for the sake of being polite. Thicker than mince, and that's being unkind to mince.

    The EU is already being blamed for everything and anything. Quite literally.


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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,526 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    If there was a snap GE, May's Tory party would get 41% and Corbyn's Labour would get 30%. Corbyn is beyond useless.

    They also have the option of voting Lib Dem or UKIP. If people really cared about Brexit or remaining they could vote for them. Suggesting that while Brexit is important for many, for most it is just one issue amongst many!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    If there was a snap GE, May's Tory party would get 41% and Corbyn's Labour would get 30%. Corbyn is beyond useless.

    Corbyn currently stands on the precipice of doing to the reputation of the Labour Party what Thatcher did to the Tories throughout the 80s for successive generations. What does it mean? I have no idea; only that voter disenfranchisement is going to reach crisis levels.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭Mr.Wemmick


    Lemming wrote: »
    Listening to a local radio station here in Sheffield (well the radio station is somewhere around South Yorkshire or possibly N.Derbyshire; I don't know) whilst driving earlier and a young sounding (maybe very early twenties) woman caller to a show blamed the EU for all the knife crime in England at the moment. I have to say it's one thing to argue a point with someone, it's quite another to suffer a fool for the sake of being polite. Thicker than mince, and that's being unkind to mince.

    The EU is already being blamed for everything and anything. Quite literally.

    If that isn't a sign of a broken, divided country, I don't know what is..

    Will they ever see that it is the policies implemented by their own governments have weakened infrastructure and services and left communities vulnerable? It's shocking that folks are so clueless. May is still feeding into that ignorance by riding on its coat tails and blaming the EU for her f*ck ups.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,379 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Lemming wrote: »
    Corbyn currently stands on the precipice of doing to the reputation of the Labour Party what Thatcher did to the Tories throughout the 80s for successive generations. What does it mean? I have no idea; only that voter disenfranchisement is going to reach crisis levels.

    Exactly. this is long term damage. He's the ERG's best asset.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    Mr.Wemmick wrote: »
    If that isn't a sign of a broken, divided country, I don't know what is..

    Will they ever see that it is the policies implemented by their own governments have weakened infrastructure and services and left communities vulnerable? It's shocking that folks are so clueless. May is still feeding into that ignorance by riding on its coat tails and blaming the EU for her f*ck ups.

    In fairness to the show, all the other callers were calling out government policies/cuts to policing/education/welfare/etc. for failure for young people with one caller from a social worker background making fascinating points about how drug gangs are grooming vulnerable children and "as skilled as social workers" in dealing with young people; that clown just came on the air with total WAHHOOOOOOOOOO stuff that was completely divorced from reality.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,379 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    They also have the option of voting Lib Dem or UKIP. If people really cared about Brexit or remaining they could vote for them. Suggesting that while Brexit is important for many, for most it is just one issue amongst many!

    The do but don't forget that it's a FPTP system. In some constituencies, it's pointless voting at all unless you are Tory or Labour and even then it might be pointless. This is the worst and most divided Tory government in decades led by an incompetent. And yet Corbyn's Labour is 11 points behind them. It's almost as if he is a Tory plant whose function is to undermine the Labour party from within.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 886 ✭✭✭Anteayer


    Long time lurker, but decided to join up to give a bit of perspective having been over and back to England over the last few months.

    I would still caution that unless you're travelling around England and getting talking to people from some of the midsized cities and towns, you're just reading the temperature in London and Manchester. This is exactly what happened ahead of the referendum and it looked like everything was going to be fine, with a pragmatic majority for remain.

    There's huge and totally unwarranted anger directed towards the EU by quite a lot of people in England and it's just not rational. They've been buying into a rhetoric that blames the EU or "Brussels" for absolutely everything and that's been going on for decades. Even people who are otherwise very reasonable, often hold bizarre and unjustifiably negative views towards Europe. Some of it's about nationalism and the history of old imperialism and a touch of xenophobia, but most of it is just about having bought into absolute lies that were served up by the tabloids for going right back to the 1970s.

    I really don't think most Irish people fully understand the view of the world from some of those towns because our window on the UK is largely British television, which is far more toned down and sane than the tabloids and some of the radio phone ins and so on. We also tend to have a view of England that's through a lens of big cities and more progressive areas of the country as, let's face it, not many people tend to want to move to old mining towns in the North of England or depressed former seaside resorts and so on.

    Based on my perception of it (and I could be totally wrong but it's just a personal view), I think the international markets and even Irish commentators are grossly underestimating the likelihood of a crash out on the 29th of March. I don't really see things becoming more pragmatic and they've managed to bring the worst aspects of Northern Irish politics straight into the middle of it too, just to add to the mess.

    I'm hoping for the best, but I don't think it's going to happen.

    I am just dreading to think what the politics in England will be like if Brexit does happen in a chaotic way and you end up with harsh economic realities and a remain said saying "we told you so" while the Brexiteers will probably take it out on the EU claiming that they've been punished.

    I just hope the country can manage to somehow stick itself back together again and find some kind of sane politics again, as otherwise, it's going to be a very rough couple of decades ahead.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,470 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The do but don't forget that it's a FPTP system. In some constituencies, it's pointless voting at all unless you are Tory or Labour and even then it might be pointless. This is the worst and most divided Tory government in decades led by an incompetent. And yet Corbyn's Labour is 11 points behind them. It's almost as if he is a Tory plant whose function is to undermine the Labour party from within.

    His biggest asset as leader was an enthusiastic, idealistic and young support base who he has done almost everything in his power to alienate since the last election.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,379 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Akrasia wrote: »
    His biggest asset as leader was an enthusiastic, idealistic and young support base who he has done almost everything in his power to alienate since the last election.

    He's even too much of an ideologue for Momentum now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,470 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Anteayer wrote: »
    Long time lurker, but decided to join up to give a bit of perspective having been over and back to England over the last few months.

    I would still caution that unless you're travelling around England and getting talking to people from some of the midsized cities and towns, you're just reading the temperature in London and Manchester. This is exactly what happened ahead of the referendum and it looked like everything was going to be fine, with a pragmatic majority for remain.

    There's huge and totally unwarranted anger directed towards the EU by quite a lot of people in England and it's just not rational. They've been buying into a rhetoric that blames the EU or "Brussels" for absolutely everything and that's been going on for decades. Even people who are otherwise very reasonable, often hold bizarre and unjustifiably negative views towards Europe. Some of it's about nationalism and the history of old imperialism and a touch of xenophobia, but most of it is just about having bought into absolute lies that were served up by the tabloids for going right back to the 1970s.

    I really don't think most Irish people fully understand the view of the world from some of those towns because our window on the UK is largely British television, which is far more toned down and sane than the tabloids and some of the radio phone ins and so on. We also tend to have a view of England that's through a lens of big cities and more progressive areas of the country as, let's face it, not many people tend to want to move to old mining towns in the North of England or depressed former seaside resorts and so on.

    Based on my perception of it (and I could be totally wrong but it's just a personal view), I think the international markets and even Irish commentators are grossly underestimating the likelihood of a crash out on the 29th of March. I don't really see things becoming more pragmatic and they've managed to bring the worst aspects of Northern Irish politics straight into the middle of it too, just to add to the mess.

    I'm hoping for the best, but I don't think it's going to happen.

    I am just dreading to think what the politics in England will be like if Brexit does happen in a chaotic way and you end up with harsh economic realities and a remain said saying "we told you so" while the Brexiteers will probably take it out on the EU claiming that they've been punished.

    I just hope the country can manage to somehow stick itself back together again and find some kind of sane politics again, as otherwise, it's going to be a very rough couple of decades ahead.
    You're right that there is a big section of uk society who have been poisoned against the EU, but at the end of the day, the decision is now down to the House of Commons and the only thing there is a majority for in parliament is that a No Deal is not acceptable.

    I think the likelyhood of a crash out is about 20% with a 30% chance May will get her deal passed before July and a 50% chance of a long extension and a 2nd referendum


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,604 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    Anteayer wrote: »
    Long time lurker, but decided to join up to give a bit of perspective having been over and back to England over the last few months.

    I would still caution that unless you're travelling around England and getting talking to people from some of the midsized cities and towns, you're just reading the temperature in London and Manchester. This is exactly what happened ahead of the referendum and it looked like everything was going to be fine, with a pragmatic majority for remain.

    There's huge and totally unwarranted anger directed towards the EU by quite a lot of people in England and it's just not rational. They've been buying into a rhetoric that blames the EU or "Brussels" for absolutely everything and that's been going on for decades. Even people who are otherwise very reasonable, often hold bizarre and unjustifiably negative views towards Europe. Some of it's about nationalism and the history of old imperialism and a touch of xenophobia, but most of it is just about having bought into absolute lies that were served up by the tabloids for going right back to the 1970s.

    I really don't think most Irish people fully understand the view of the world from some of those towns because our window on the UK is largely British television, which is far more toned down and sane than the tabloids and some of the radio phone ins and so on. We also tend to have a view of England that's through a lens of big cities and more progressive areas of the country as, let's face it, not many people tend to want to move to old mining towns in the North of England or depressed former seaside resorts and so on.

    Based on my perception of it (and I could be totally wrong but it's just a personal view), I think the international markets and even Irish commentators are grossly underestimating the likelihood of a crash out on the 29th of March. I don't really see things becoming more pragmatic and they've managed to bring the worst aspects of Northern Irish politics straight into the middle of it too, just to add to the mess.

    I'm hoping for the best, but I don't think it's going to happen.

    I am just dreading to think what the politics in England will be like if Brexit does happen in a chaotic way and you end up with harsh economic realities and a remain said saying "we told you so" while the Brexiteers will probably take it out on the EU claiming that they've been punished.

    I just hope the country can manage to somehow stick itself back together again and find some kind of sane politics again, as otherwise, it's going to be a very rough couple of decades ahead.


    It is those very areas that are the economic dead weight of the U.K.
    These are exactly the areas that economists for brexit and Patrick minford, JRM et al intend to leave behind in their future free trade post brexit shangri la.
    No matter what happens London, Manchester etc will always be at the economic heart of the U.K.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,526 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    The do but don't forget that it's a FPTP system. In some constituencies, it's pointless voting at all unless you are Tory or Labour and even then it might be pointless. This is the worst and most divided Tory government in decades led by an incompetent. And yet Corbyn's Labour is 11 points behind them. It's almost as if he is a Tory plant whose function is to undermine the Labour party from within.

    Ironically it could work to the Lib Dems advantage if they could only raise their profile. They could take votes from both Labour and Tories and then just need approximately a third of the vote rather than nearly half the vote. In a given constituency with 60+% remain and leave labour and tory candidates. They could easily swing to Lib Dem as a once off to deal with Brexit if it was really important to them. The fact that they most often vote for the same two parties is their fault, not the consequence of the FPTP system itself.

    Im firmly of the view that people get the government they deserve, and if they are not prepared to vote away from Tory/Labour at such an important time, then that is the government they deserve.

    Proof of the pudding lies in Scotland, where in 2003 SNP only had 9 out of 78 seats. Now they have 59. If people really care enough they can change their government, even in FPTP


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,047 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Anteayer wrote: »
    Long time lurker, but decided to join up to give a bit of perspective having been over and back to England over the last few months.

    I would still caution that unless you're travelling around England and getting talking to people from some of the midsized cities and towns, you're just reading the temperature in London and Manchester. This is exactly what happened ahead of the referendum and it looked like everything was going to be fine, with a pragmatic majority for remain.

    There's huge and totally unwarranted anger directed towards the EU by quite a lot of people in England and it's just not rational. They've been buying into a rhetoric that blames the EU or "Brussels" for absolutely everything and that's been going on for decades. Even people who are otherwise very reasonable, often hold bizarre and unjustifiably negative views towards Europe. Some of it's about nationalism and the history of old imperialism and a touch of xenophobia, but most of it is just about having bought into absolute lies that were served up by the tabloids for going right back to the 1970s.

    I really don't think most Irish people fully understand the view of the world from some of those towns because our window on the UK is largely British television, which is far more toned down and sane than the tabloids and some of the radio phone ins and so on. We also tend to have a view of England that's through a lens of big cities and more progressive areas of the country as, let's face it, not many people tend to want to move to old mining towns in the North of England or depressed former seaside resorts and so on.

    Based on my perception of it (and I could be totally wrong but it's just a personal view), I think the international markets and even Irish commentators are grossly underestimating the likelihood of a crash out on the 29th of March. I don't really see things becoming more pragmatic and they've managed to bring the worst aspects of Northern Irish politics straight into the middle of it too, just to add to the mess.

    I'm hoping for the best, but I don't think it's going to happen.

    I am just dreading to think what the politics in England will be like if Brexit does happen in a chaotic way and you end up with harsh economic realities and a remain said saying "we told you so" while the Brexiteers will probably take it out on the EU claiming that they've been punished.

    I just hope the country can manage to somehow stick itself back together again and find some kind of sane politics again, as otherwise, it's going to be a very rough couple of decades ahead.

    It's been an accident waiting to happen. A dumbed down electorate, a poor education system, a feeling that Britain is the most important country in Europe and that everywhere else is inferior. Couple that with a lying, corrupt, trashy press feeding into people's prejudice and failed political system and you have the current debacle.

    It's not that Britain has the appearance of being a basket case country at the moment, it genuinely is one. Everything has gone wrong at the same time. The fall from grace from being one of the most respected countries in the world has been shocking.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 886 ✭✭✭Anteayer


    Akrasia wrote: »
    You're right that there is a big section of uk society who have been poisoned against the EU, but at the end of the day, the decision is now down to the House of Commons and the only thing there is a majority for in parliament is that a No Deal is not acceptable.

    I think the likelyhood of a crash out is about 20% with a 30% chance May will get her deal passed before July and a 50% chance of a long extension and a 2nd referendum

    You can only hope they'll do something as they're currently hung-up on the backstop and the right wing of the tories seem to have managed to absorb the political position of the DUP. I could see a situation arising where it won't be a crash out, but rather a tumble out. I mean with the kind of comments coming from the Northern Secretary you'd really have to wonder what's going on. It's basically singing from the DUP's hymn sheet.

    I think we're also overestimating the EU's patience on the issue. It's a HUGE deal in Ireland in the sense that we're the most proximate neighbour, but on the continent there's an emerging sense that this needs to be put to bed before it causes more instability.

    I'm not saying they'll throw Ireland under a bus, but I don't think they're all that open to the UK dragging this out forever either as it's opening up domestic political issues for other countries too - notably Macron. If he doesn't get a solution to this, it will be used by Marine Le Pen as a large stick to beat him with for the next couple of years. She's already looking to take the largest share of French MEP seats this summer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,379 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Ironically it could work to the Lib Dems advantage if they could only raise their profile. They could take votes from both Labour and Tories and then just need approximately a third of the vote rather than nearly half the vote. In a given constituency with 60+% remain and leave labour and tory candidates. They could easily swing to Lib Dem as a once off to deal with Brexit if it was really important to them. The fact that they most often vote for the same two parties is their fault, not the consequence of the FPTP system itself.

    Im firmly of the view that people get the government they deserve, and if they are not prepared to vote away from Tory/Labour at such an important time, then that is the government they deserve.

    Proof of the pudding lies in Scotland, where in 2003 SNP only had 9 out of 78 seats. Now they have 59. If people really care enough they can change their government, even in FPTP

    Indeed they could but past evidence suggests that they won't deviate from the binary choice. There isn't the same need for a nationalist party in England as there is in Scotland as the Tories provide a home for English nationalism. So, it's essentially right versus left with the LIb Dems providing an element of centre. The only hope that the Lib Dems have is that Crobyn continues to alienate the softer left in Labour.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 886 ✭✭✭Anteayer


    Strazdas wrote: »
    It's been an accident waiting to happen. A dumbed down electorate, a poor education system, a feeling that Britain is the most important country in Europe and that everywhere else is inferior. Couple that with a lying, corrupt, trashy press feeding into people's prejudice and failed political system and you have the current debacle.

    It's not that Britain has the appearance of being a basket case country at the moment, it genuinely is one. Everything has gone wrong at the same time. The fall from grace from being one of the most respected countries in the world has been shocking.

    It's also worth remembering that many of the Brexiteers are genuinely very nice people who just have swallowed this stuff, hook line and sinker. It's often based around a notion of trying to return the country to some imagined version of the 'good old days' where things were simpler.

    You've also got a lot of 'softer' Brexiteers who are more just fed up listening to this debate and want it over and done with. They're in some ways the most dangerous part as they don't understand any of the facts and don't want to listen to them either. It's the "oh how bad can it be ... let's just get on with it! The people spoke.."

    In a lot of ways, I think the English remainers are failing to reach out to those people and bring them on board. You genuinely do get the sense that instead of trying to open a discussion, they're just shouting at them as if they're morons. That isn't shifting positions, it's putting people into bunkers.

    I'd rather have seen the UK having debated this properly and gone through the kind of debates we did with the recent abortion and marriage referenda where you actually had a national discussion and things were fleshed out for a long time ahead of a referendum. I'm also not saying that Ireland's always been good at doing that, we'd some horrific referenda in the past too which provided us with totally screwed up policy for a long time. I do think we learnt a lot of lessons (the hard way) about how to do those kinds of debates though.

    I just see very little evidence that people have come out of their bunkers in England and it's made worse by the way they tend to label themselves with 'working class' vs 'middle class' and North vs South or London vs Everyone else.

    The whole thing needs to be re-run and the debate needs to be a lot calmer, but I just don't see that happening. It's way too bogged down at this stage and they've fed all the most poisonous parts of the discussion.

    All of this stuff however is a discussion that should have been had several years ago. It's largely too late now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,047 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Anteayer wrote: »
    It's also worth remembering that many of the Brexiteers are genuinely very nice people who just have swallowed this stuff, hook line and sinker. It's often based around a notion of trying to return the country to some imagined version of the 'good old days' where things were simpler.

    You've also got a lot of 'softer' Brexiteers who are more just fed up listening to this debate and want it over and done with. They're in some ways the most dangerous part as they don't understand any of the facts and don't want to listen to them either. It's the "oh how bad can it be ... let's just get on with it! The people spoke.."

    In a lot of ways, I think the English remainers are failing to reach out to those people and bring them on board. You genuinely do get the sense that instead of trying to open a discussion, they're just shouting at them as if they're morons. That isn't shifting positions, it's putting people into bunkers.

    I'd rather have seen the UK having debated this properly and gone through the kind of debates we did with the recent abortion and marriage referenda where you actually had a national discussion and things were fleshed out for a long time ahead of a referendum. I'm also not saying that Ireland's always been good at doing that, we'd some horrific referenda in the past too which provided us with totally screwed up policy for a long time. I do think we learnt a lot of lessons (the hard way) about how to do those kinds of debates though.

    I just see very little evidence that people have come out of their bunkers in England and it's made worse by the way they tend to label themselves with 'working class' vs 'middle class' and North vs South or London vs Everyone else.

    The whole thing needs to be re-run and the debate needs to be a lot calmer, but I just don't see that happening. It's way too bogged down at this stage and they've fed all the most poisonous parts of the discussion.

    All of this stuff however is a discussion that should have been had several years ago. It's largely too late now.

    That is true but you have to remember what happened in the months after the referendum. Leave voters were delirious in victory and shouting "Suck it up, losers" at anyone who had voted remain (and this was being reinforced to the max by the right wing press).....despite the fact it was only a wafer thin 'win'. All hope of compromise went out the window at that point.

    The whole episode has been a catastrophe and an exercise in how not to hold a referendum.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 886 ✭✭✭Anteayer


    Strazdas wrote: »
    That is true but you have to remember what happened in the months after the referendum. Leave voters were delirious in victory and shouting "Suck it up, losers" at anyone who had voted remain (and this was being reinforced to the max by the right wing press).....despite the fact it was only a wafer thin 'win'. All hope of compromise went out the window at that point.

    The whole episode has been a catastrophe and an exercise in how not to hold a referendum.

    Well you’ve two parallel presses in England. Never do the two meet anywhere in the middle.

    Ireland never had a big enough market to really develop those kinds of tabloid niches. Actually, on a global basis the UK tabloids are pretty unusual.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    Quote:Anteayer:"It's also worth remembering that many of the Brexiteers are genuinely very nice people who just have swallowed this stuff, hook line and sinker. It's often based around a notion of trying to return the country to some imagined version of the 'good old days' where things were simpler"

    That is worryingly true-I was watching BBC news yesterday evening and there were some people being asked their opinion,their attitude was lets just get on with it-they weren't what you would label as "brexiteer loonies".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,049 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Lemming wrote: »
    Listening to a local radio station here in Sheffield (well the radio station is somewhere around South Yorkshire or possibly N.Derbyshire; I don't know) whilst driving earlier and a young sounding (maybe very early twenties) woman caller to a show blamed the EU for all the knife crime in England at the moment. I have to say it's one thing to argue a point with someone, it's quite another to suffer a fool for the sake of being polite. Thicker than mince, and that's being unkind to mince.

    The EU is already being blamed for everything and anything. Quite literally.

    Hmm, New Strategy perhaps. Because i read on twitter that there was someone on the BBC saying the exact same thing in the last hour.

    I dont think these things happen in isolation. There is a concerted effort in this. These 'normal people' callers are anything but.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,801 ✭✭✭Roanmore


    listermint wrote: »
    Hmm, New Strategy perhaps. Because i read on twitter that there was someone on the BBC saying the exact same thing in the last hour.

    I dont think these things happen in isolation. There is a concerted effort in this. These 'normal people' callers are anything but.

    I would love to see the logic of that arguement :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,049 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Roanmore wrote: »
    I would love to see the logic of that arguement :rolleyes:

    Well genius rollseyes.

    We have Darren Grimes going around spending money that isn't is. We still don't know the origin of.

    You have campaigns like this one right here. Fronted by an individual that doesn't have the means nor connections to fund them.
    https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexspence/mysterious-facebook-brexit-group-britains-future-tim-dawson

    We have various women for leave campaigns going on fronted by people pretending to be normal house wives but are married to hugely wealthy equities traders and who run shoulders in Tory backer circles.

    We have BBC question time audience packed with people pretending to be normal off the street individuals but they are ukip councillors or their assistants.

    What I find perplexing is that you think these campaigns don't get people to phone into radio stations and appear on BBC shows pushing a narrative. And generally a fake made up one.

    Over to you....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,801 ✭✭✭Roanmore


    listermint wrote: »
    Well genius rollseyes.

    We have Darren Grimes going around spending money that isn't is. We still don't know the origin of.

    You have campaigns like this one right here. Fronted by an individual that doesn't have the means nor connections to fund them.
    https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexspence/mysterious-facebook-brexit-group-britains-future-tim-dawson

    We have various women for leave campaigns going on fronted by people pretending to be normal house wives but are married to hugely wealthy equities traders and who run shoulders in Tory backer circles.

    We have BBC question time audience packed with people pretending to be normal off the street individuals but they are ukip councillors or their assistants.

    What I find perplexing is that you think these campaigns don't get people to phone into radio stations and appear on BBC shows pushing a narrative. And generally a fake made up one.

    Over to you....


    Cool the jets I was talking about blaming the EU for knife crime


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭Laois_Man


    RTE was a bit sensationalist with that story. It got major breaking news prominence on RTE's website but little mention of it on BBC's.

    Worse than that....those of us with the RTE NewsNow app got push notification of an offer to let the UK unilaterally end the backstop.....no context or other details. Gob****es!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,321 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Laois_Man wrote: »
    Worse than that....those of us with the RTE NewsNow app got push notification of an offer to let the UK unilaterally end the backstop.....no context or other details. Gob****es!

    I got that push notification and it clearly said exit the Customs Union, no mention of the backstop.


This discussion has been closed.
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