Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

Professor Moriarty

Brexiteers on Sky saying that 'we' need to go back to the EU and get changes to the WA. You can't fix stupid.

listermint

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Seems I am allowed to be abused. Yes I am a libertarian and strong believer in free markets. You are right my interest in Crypto come from my libertarian beliefs.

Always amusing that people are libertarians having benefitted from free schooling , healthcare and next to free college education.

You find no such libertarians in third world countries. They don't even have it in the vocabulary.


Amusing

Always.

Professor Moriarty

dresden8 wrote: »

Conservative guy on Sky, we can squeeze a deal out of the EU. Just named as Johnny Maher.

Mercer.

Kermit.de.frog

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Why are you dismissive of a nation on the in security council, a blue water navy, intelligence agencies that lead the world, the city, one of the , most powerful soft power nations? Why shouldn't the UK look at itself and think they shoUld not be ruled by the EU.

Because they are not "ruled" by the EU.

No country in the EU is "ruled" by the EU. :rolleyes:

CelticRambler

cryptocurrency wrote: »

What is coming?.. Then threats seem to flow free and fast with the EU. No nation should bow-to threats, they must be headed straight on.

What threats? Barnier said the EU's continuing with its No-Deal preparations. Statement of fact, consistent with the UK's position of keeping No-Deal on the table as "leverage" in negotiations.

cryptocurrency wrote: »

I see the anti-Democratic and anti-competition the EU club has become.

Anti-competition? Try telling the French that the EU are anti-competition when they're riding on British-own aeroplanes, Spanish-run buses, Italian and German trains - all doing business in France thanks to EU competition/free-market rules.

Spanish Eyes

Deleted User wrote: »

Have they not said they're voting on
A: May's Deal
B: Blocking No Deal
C: A50 extension vote

Surely to not have that last vote would be... (illegal is too strong a word, but surely refusing that vote would be very wrong?)

Unless they know WHY they are voting for an extension, it is all cobblers imv. And the EU know this also. No guarantees EU will oblige (as 27 individual votes) either. Everyone is sick of the UK intransigence and apparent superiority.

If only there was some roadmap as to what they actually want from an extension, well things might be a tad more conciliatory.

So far we have NO to the WA

Probably tomorrow have NO to No Deal.

What DO they want really. I am so sick of the obfuscation and negativity so it appears there may be no positive means of engagement anymore.

Donald Trump

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Why are you dismissive of a nation on the in security council, a blue water navy, intelligence agencies that lead the world, the city, one of the , most powerful soft power nations? Why shouldn't the UK look at itself and think they shoUld not be ruled by the EU.

Nice speech.

But they aren't ruled by the EU.

Lets see their influence grow in the next decade so.

And lets see how they get on with their unconditional free trades deals with China and US.


US is already threatening German about using Huawei in their telecoms infrastructure. UK hasn't ruled out using it either. Still, the US would hardly impinge on dear old Blighty's free trade now would it?

lawred2

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Why are you dismissive of a nation on the in security council, a blue water navy, intelligence agencies that lead the world, the city, one of the , most powerful soft power nations? Why shouldn't the UK look at itself and think they shoUld not be ruled by the EU.

such tedium

they have been members of the EU and would be classed as one of the 'rulers' given their population and size of their economy..

it's just they don't like sharing

which we all here in Ireland know full well about

but yeah - you keep waffling on about blue water navies - whatever gets you wet

cmac2009

Sammy Wilson on the radio stating its now time for May to go back to Europe again and get the deal the UK deserves. Extraordinary levels of ineptness.

Spanish Eyes

James O'Brien on LBC tomorrow could be very interesting. He generally is anyway. He is not afraid to call the muppets out.

Infini

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

As I understand it, if they don't revoke A50 then they automatically leave whether they voted against leaving or not.

Basically yes. They talk about an extention but they can only REQUEST it the entire EU has to agree. Being given one is not an absolute and honestly the way it's looking it would be better to push them to decide if they truly want to be the ones who were at the helm of Great Britain as they drove the entire economy off the cliffs of Dover for their vainglorious project.

Another thing is that we dont have to say ourselves that we reject an extention either because since an Extention requires all members to agree the likes of Germany or France could say "non/nein" basically because Britain has no plan bar withdrawing A50 and easily take the heat from Britain like water off a ducks back because they're big enough to simply throw it back at em and say "that's what you choose: Live with the consequences of YOUR decision."

End of the day Britain's in this mess because its government and parliament refuse to choose: They've been given an out they can still use it but if they do this farce ends. That's why an extension shouldn't be given unless of course they present a clear plan forward but that's why they're stuck because they HAVE no plan.

BlitzKrieg

I dont see the EU accepting an extension on the grounds of a general election.

It's just labour are as bad as the tories about their deal which does not have a majority support, there is no sign either party will walk the election let alone gain such a majority that they can easily sign a deal without their backbenchers. Offering an extension on the grounds of a general election is pretty much resetting the clock for another 2 years of madness and infighting regardless of who wins.

Beechwoodspark

So no deal ruled out tomor

Then how long will they want for the extension?

Of course the Eu hold most of the cards now so the Brits will be told what they can have and the conditions attached.

Second ref? Election? Art 50 revoked?

cryptocurrency

lawred2 wrote: »

such tedium

they have been members of the EU and would be classed as one of the 'rulers' given their population and size of their economy..

it's just they don't like sharing

which we all here in Ireland know full well about

but yeah - you keep waffling on about blue water navies - whatever gets you wet

If they were one of its rulers they would be anle to come right out and say the UK will insist on no tax harmonisation, no EU army and no federal Europe, and no euro, they would say it in front of barrier, tusk and juncker and make them respond to the British people for the record.

Also the likes of Tusk should be made to go on the likes of a question time panel to engage at local level as often as Vince cable. He is no more important.

jmayo

dresden8 wrote: »

Parliament not agreeing a deal and not allowing no deal gives May a mandate to revoke.
...

Could she really do that ?

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

How have things worked out for them to date?

Well I often wonder why the remainers like Jo Johnson, stick it out and haven't jumped ship. Maybe it is once a tory always a tory ?

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Why are you dismissive of a nation on the in security council, a blue water navy, intelligence agencies that lead the world, the city, one of the , most powerful soft power nations? Why shouldn't the UK look at itself and think they shoUld not be ruled by the EU.

Oh For Fecks Sake.
Britain has been in decline as a world power for decades.
Their empire disappeared in the 50s and 60s.
They have riden on the coat tails of the US for decades now.

And maybe you should stop watching James Bond movies.

Donald Trump

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

I dont see the EU accepting an extension on the grounds of a general election.

They might be quicker to accept it if there was a feasible pro-Europe/anti-Brexit alternative that could perhaps get into government on a wave of support from a population that now wants to stay in.



But there isn't.

So the latest "deal" struck with the EU has been rejected, It was clear that the EU didn't really give Theresa May anything worth going back to parliament that could secure a successful outcome.
Tomorrow the vote is simply "(prey to get a better) Deal" or "no deal", if they can't get a sense of any movement from the EU, a no deal looks the most likely option!

So far the EU is not shifting at all, this leaves Ireland in a difficult position as the EU member most exposed to the fallout of a "no deal" outcome.
One possible outcome is that the republic of Ireland is "quarantined" so as to avoid a hard border with the UK (NI & GB) while having to carry out some customs checks for trade via the mainland EU ports.

cryptocurrency

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

James O'Brien on LBC tomorrow could be very interesting. He generally is anyway. He is not afraid to call the muppets out.

While interesting I listen to laugh at him moan in his monologues. Hard brexit will be worth it just to annoy the extreme left like him alone for so many people.
Mogg made mincemeat of him if you check the interview recently on YouTube..i was shouting ”finish him” with five mins to go.

seamus

If they do ask for an extension, the EU might request a legally binding guarantee that the UK will do whatever it is planning. We already know they can't be trusted to follow through on their commitments.

So, for example, if May goes to the EU requesting an extension for a General Election, the EU might only approve on the condition that an Election is held before the end of April. If not, the extension is void and the UK crashes out.

fash

cryptocurrency wrote: »

What is coming?.. Then threats seem to flow free and fast with the EU. No nation should bow-to threats, they must be headed straight on.

You mean like the way Ireland had to agree to Northern Ireland being carved out or else terrible and immediate war? Or how the bullies in the UK parliament are now refusing to agree to any solution that ensures that the is no hard border in NI - in breach of its obligations towards the GFA - and while issuing various threats to starve Ireland and cripple its economy? Those sorts of threats?
What should we do about that country? What should we do with people who support that country? What should we do with Irish citizens who betray Ireland in this matter?

I am confused...

Help!

If the HOC says tomorrow, "No deal cannot happen", surely that means either revoking A50, or applying or an extension, presumably on the basis of a referendum/GE.
They can no longer vote for the deal itself, so they won't be able to leave on March 29th if shelving the no deal vote wins?

CelticRambler

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Why are you dismissive of a nation on the in security council, a blue water navy, intelligence agencies that lead the world, the city, one of the , most powerful soft power nations? Why shouldn't the UK look at itself and think they shoUld not be ruled by the EU.

Because (a) they're not ruled by the EU; and (b) all the advantages they had in respect of the other things on your list they've squandered by demonstrating in public that they're not in any fit state to share space on the planet with any other nation.

Their "soft power" is shot to bits as a result of Brexit. They've cut themselves out of the international intelligence community; they've even deliberately cut themselves off from military-grade global positioning satelite imagery, thanks to rules they drafted themselves, so their "blue water navy" will have to rely on third party concessions to know where it is and where it's going.

Irishmale0399

Deleted User wrote: »

I am confused...

Help!

If the HOC says tomorrow, "No deal cannot happen", surely that means either revoking A50, or applying or an extension, presumably on the basis of a referendum/GE.
They can no longer vote for the deal itself, so they won't be able to leave on March 29th if shelving the no deal vote wins?

Your not alone....I think at this stage they want the EU to make the decision for them so they can blame them for the whole shambles.

VinLieger

cryptocurrency wrote: »

If they were one of its rulers they would be anle to come right out and say the UK will insist on no tax harmonisation, no EU army and no federal Europe, and no euro, they would say it in front of barrier, tusk and juncker and make them respond to the British people for the record.

Also the likes of Tusk should be made to go on the likes of a question time panel to engage at local level as often as Vince cable. He is no more important.

There is no EU army stop reading the express.

I do love you claiming tusk is no more important than vince cable though would love to hear your nonsensical rambling on how you got to that?

Infini

cmac2009 wrote: »

Sammy Wilson on the radio stating its now time for May to go back to Europe again and get the deal the UK deserves. Extraordinary levels of ineptness.

It's Sammy Shítstirrer he's the North's version of the Healy Rae's only more malicious. Delusion and Incompetence are 2nd nature to him. The sheer irony wont be lost should a Border Poll come about out of all this because the likes of him refused to listen to facts and I only wish there was more people out there that could call him out on his total ignorant BS and put him back in his box for talking shíte. Of course if there's problems up north we can point out he told everyone in NI when these problems were put to him to "send em' to the chippy"........

Hurrache

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So far the EU is not shifting at all, this leaves Ireland in a difficult position as the EU member most exposed to the fallout of a "no deal" outcome.
One possible outcome is that the republic of Ireland is "quarantined" so as to avoid a hard border with the UK (NI & GB) while having to carry out some customs checks for trade via the mainland EU ports.

No, it's not a possible outcome at all.

cryptocurrency

fash wrote: »

You mean like the way Ireland had to agree to Northern Ireland being carved out or else terrible and immediate war? Or how the bullies in the UK parliament are now refusing to agree to any solution that ensures that the is no hard border in NI - in breach of its obligations towards the GFA - and while issuing various threats to starve Ireland and cripple its economy? Those sorts of threats?
What should we do about that country? What should we do with people who support that country? What should we do with Irish citizens who betray Ireland in this matter?

I never seen any of them threats. I seen the UK being much more reasonable to Ireland since brexit then the other way around.
Why can't the backstop be time-limited, even five years? If they can't work out arrangements in two years transition and five years backstop then they are seriously not trying. To refuse they just showed the whole plan was clearly a trap.

cryptocurrency

cryptocurrency wrote: »

While interesting I listen to laugh at him moan in his monologues. Hard brexit will be worth it just to annoy the extreme left like him alone for so many people.
Mogg made mincemeat of him if you check the interview recently on YouTube..i was shouting ”finish him” with five mins to go.

You're cool with JRM manipulating this to make himself 7 million or thereabouts?

Donald Trump

cryptocurrency wrote: »

While interesting I listen to laugh at him moan in his monologues. Hard brexit will be worth it just to annoy the extreme left like him alone for so many people.
Mogg made mincemeat of him if you check the interview recently on YouTube..i was shouting ”finish him” with five mins to go.

Given your preference for "hard Brexit" "no deal" and free trade then surely your choice would be to get out now as soon as possible, and to stop dealing with the EU until they open up all their borders to allow goods and services to flow back and forth across them with no controls and checks? I mean the UK can just do all this free trade with the rest of the world and not have to bother with the bureaucratic anti-democracy ***** in the EU surely?



Perhaps May et. al. are not incompetent but carefully orchestrating Empire II for the Brits without the rest of us eejits even realizing it? :cool:

An Claidheamh

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Why are you dismissive of a nation on the in security council, a blue water navy, intelligence agencies that lead the world, the city, one of the , most powerful soft power nations?

We're so dismissive..... because they're none of those things.

Britain can't even bring itself to police their border incase they upset the IRA.

The last time Britain had a premier navy, they were fighting Napolean.

British intelligence, a contradiction in terms.

Don't make me laugh Crypto.