Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

Enzokk

I am sure we have all noticed the outrage from the UK at what Donald Tusk had to say, but what has also been absent is evidence that he is wrong with what he said. Not one person has come out and said he needs to apologize because they had a plan that they can show they presented before the referendum. It is all outrage on his words and not the substance of it.

https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1093188597979774977

otnomart

This is OT maybe.
Tusk served as Prime Minister of Poland from 2007 to 2014.
How many Poles emigrated when he was PM ?
What does that say about a PM when his population leaves the Countries in such numbers ?

Bit cynical

otnomart wrote: »

This is OT maybe.
Tusk served as Prime Minister of Poland from 2007 to 2014.
How many Poles emigrated when he was PM ?
What does that say about a PM when his population leaves the Countries in such numbers ?

Well in fairness the Poles had at that point only recently joined a generally richer bloc with the right of free movement. Can't really blame the PM for that.

Hurrache

On the BBC News, surprise surprise, Katya Adler, even bigger surprise surprise, painting those in the EU as saying that Tusk is an emotional person, not speaking for all the EU, someone who's known for seriously misjuding his words and enjoys the attention, and she's calling his judgement into question. She's terrible.

Contrast with Tony Connolly who has always said he always carefully judges his words, and the fact he later tweeted the same shows this.

A Dub in Glasgo

otnomart wrote: »

This is OT maybe.
Tusk served as Prime Minister of Poland from 2007 to 2014.
How many Poles emigrated when he was PM ?
What does that say about a PM when his population leaves the Countries in such numbers ?

What?

MrMusician18

Hurrache wrote: »

On the BBC News, surprise surprise, Katya Adler, even bigger surprise surprise, painting those in the EU as saying that Tusk is an emotional person, not speaking for all the EU, someone who's known for seriously misjuding his words and enjoys the attention, and she's calling his judgement into question. She's terrible.

She is woeful. This wasn't a misjudgements, it was intentional and calculated.Ffs he even doubled down.

The BBC need someone else in Europe.

And they should get rid of gossip girl Laura k when they're at it.

Enzokk

otnomart wrote: »

This is OT maybe.
Tusk served as Prime Minister of Poland from 2007 to 2014.
How many Poles emigrated when he was PM ?
What does that say about a PM when his population leaves the Countries in such numbers ?

What was the emigration numbers like in Ireland under Enda Kenny? Was that all his fault and what does it say about him? There are other reasons why people would choose to leave their country to work in other countries and to only look at numbers without the context around that. Poland only returned to democracy in 1989 after being under communism from the Soviet Union following WW2. So the reasons for people migrating still from Poland has more to do with their past post WW2 than what Tusk was able to do to turn the country around.

Awesomeness

https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1093200394027761664?s=19

Wow gloves really coming off. We are really reaching the end game

Special place in hell could be hell+++

Enzokk

Hurrache wrote: »

On the BBC News, surprise surprise, Katya Adler, even bigger surprise surprise, painting those in the EU as saying that Tusk is an emotional person, not speaking for all the EU, someone who's known for seriously misjuding his words and enjoys the attention, and she's calling his judgement into question. She's terrible.

Contrast with Tony Connolly who has always said he always carefully judges his words, and the fact he later tweeted the same shows this.

Did she say that the EU will offer the UK something at the last minute of the negotiations?

Enzokk

Awesomeness wrote: »

https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1093200394027761664?s=19

Wow gloves really coming off. We are really reaching the end game

Special place in hell could be hell+++

Here is the substance of the tweet:

"Well, I doubt Lucifer would welcome them, as after what they did to Britain, they would even manage to divide hell 🙂"

I enjoyed this tweet as well on the same theme,

https://twitter.com/MattCartoonist/status/1093203680915058689

Adamcp898

Awesomeness wrote: »

https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1093200394027761664?s=19

Wow gloves really coming off. We are really reaching the end game

Special place in hell could be hell+++

That's...........getting a bit silly now tbh.

devnull

When did the quality of journalism at the BBC get so bad? They are very much trying to sell a certain line and narrative recently and the way Tusk's comments were initially presented has done a lot of damage. They are no way impartial on this. It's ridiculous.

A few of my UK based relatives of the older generation have commented that they are horrified to be told that they should go to hell after learning that from the BBC and when I've told them what Tusk actually said was about those in power and without a plan and of course apparently I am the one spinning it.

By the time the BBC changed their initial story the damage was done and you have to ask yourself if it was a mere oversight or there was something more to it than that. I normally watch Sky anyway as least they consider the Irish viewpoint as well, but the BBC is truly shocking.

Hurrache

Awesomeness wrote: »

https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1093200394027761664?s=19

Wow gloves really coming off. We are really reaching the end game

Special place in hell could be hell+++

Ha ha, wow, hilarious.
https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1093200394027761664?s=19

Awesomeness

Thanks on phone so didn't link properly

Awesomeness

Thanks on phone so didn't link properly

Hurrache

Enzokk wrote: »

Did she say that the EU will offer the UK something at the last minute of the negotiations?

I think she suggested something will be offered,

Enzokk

Adamcp898 wrote: »

That's...........getting a bit silly now tbh.

We are 52 days away from Brexit and the UK has no idea what they want from the EU other than the EU needs to compromise. The UK PM negotiated a deal for 18 months which she couldn't get through because she went at it alone, then she whipped her party to vote against her own deal so she can go back to the EU to get a new deal. What is that new deal you may ask? I don't think anyone knows at this stage.

I think we are way past silly and into the stage where you have to laugh or you will cry stage.

briany

Hurrache wrote: »

Ha ha, wow, hilarious.
https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1093200394027761664?s=19

Imagine how red the lines would be in Hell.... :cool:

But seriously, though, I don't think it's that great an idea for EU officials to be sh*te talking on Twitter. Just taking it down to the Farage level.

demfad

briany wrote: »

Is there a red line that May can remove and get that deal through parliament?

There is but she doesn't have to.

Her plan now (assuming no-deal was not the plan all along, it could actually be)
is this:

Her deal lost against the sum of (remain: extend: harder: softer: anti-backstop)
As in a PR system the alternatives get whittled down.

Currently only the Negotiated Deal and no-Deal can make the final run-off.

(the vote after the next one)

The Deal should win by 500:100

OR

She creates a mechanism to take no-deal off the table:
Extend or revoke A50 if no deal passes.

The ERG would quickly get on board with her Deal which now would represent the hardest possible Brexit. Again she could probably get it rthough without any compromise, but easily through with any softening.

She could just ease her red lines. Get Corbyns support and it passes easily.

Her appointment of American connected Fox straight away for trade and the news that UK trade people have been in the US since July 2017 indicates all her eggs are in the US basket.

So she will stick to this (far-right) Brexit all the way and try to blame Irish/EU intransience.

She is in complete control of whether a deal happens or not.

downcow

Hurrache wrote: »

On the BBC News, surprise surprise, Katya Adler, even bigger surprise surprise, painting those in the EU as saying that Tusk is an emotional person, not speaking for all the EU, someone who's known for seriously misjuding his words and enjoys the attention, and she's calling his judgement into question. She's terrible.

Contrast with Tony Connolly who has always said he always carefully judges his words, and the fact he later tweeted the same shows this.

Yeah. I watched both. They are like day and night. The truth obviously lies somewhere in the middle

MrMusician18

devnull wrote: »

When did the quality of journalism at the BBC get so bad? They are very much trying to sell a certain line and narrative recently and the way Tusk's comments were initially presented has done a lot of damage. They are no way impartial on this. It's ridiculous.

A few of my UK based relatives of the older generation have commented that they are horrified to be told that they should go to hell after learning that from the BBC and when I've told them what Tusk actually said was about those in power and without a plan and of course apparently I am the one spinning it.

By the time the BBC changed their initial story the damage was done and you have to ask yourself if it was a mere oversight or there was something more to it than that. I normally watch Sky anyway as least they consider the Irish viewpoint as well, but the BBC is truly shocking.

The BBC had always been jingoistic. Great BBC journalism really only happened when the UK was politically neutral or there was an obvious humanitarian outrage taking place

Hurrache

briany wrote: »

Imagine how red the lines would be in Hell.... :cool:

But seriously, though, I don't think it's that great an idea for EU officials to be sh*te talking on Twitter. Just taking it down to the Farage level.

I think it reflects the level of exasperation at this point. They know more than we do as to what's happening, suggested and being said behind closed doors, it must be more off the wall to what we're hearing in public.

The ERG and their allies don't want the deal to go through regardless so they've nothing to lose there. The audience for the comments today are everyone else in Europe. Diane Dodds on RTE now, having the gall to start her statement crying about inflammatory language.

downcow

devnull wrote: »

When did the quality of journalism at the BBC get so bad? They are very much trying to sell a certain line and narrative recently and the way Tusk's comments were initially presented has done a lot of damage. They are no way impartial on this. It's ridiculous.

A few of my UK based relatives of the older generation have commented that they are horrified to be told that they should go to hell after learning that from the BBC and when I've told them what Tusk actually said was about those in power and without a plan and of course apparently I am the one spinning it.

By the time the BBC changed their initial story the damage was done and you have to ask yourself if it was a mere oversight or there was something more to it than that. I normally watch Sky anyway as least they consider the Irish viewpoint as well, but the BBC is truly shocking.

Can you not see that you have the mirror image in you media in the south. You need to watch both to get a decent perspective.

devnull

downcow wrote: »

Can you not see that you have the mirror image in you media in the south. You need to watch both to get a decent perspective.

I do watch both Sky and RTE - I just found the BBC is essentially turning to what we would call in other countries State TV, that is essentially a mouthpiece for the government to spread propaganda.

Hurrache

Dodds wants Tusk to find the alternative arrangements ffs.

downcow

Amazing outburst from trusk. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt by suggesting it was lost in translation but that might be over generous. Is he the Sammy Wilson of Europe?
Or is he starting to feel the pressure To give way on the backstop?

flutered

otnomart wrote: »

This is OT maybe.
Tusk served as Prime Minister of Poland from 2007 to 2014.
How many Poles emigrated when he was PM ?
What does that say about a PM when his population leaves the Countries in such numbers ?

tusk ended up in a soviet gulag becose of his belifs, how many in uk politics would do the same

Hurrache

downcow wrote: »

Amazing outburst from trusk. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt by suggesting it was lost in translation but that might be over generous. Is he the Sammy Wilson of Europe?
Or is he starting to feel the pressure To give way on the backstop?

Dig into the content, what was wrong given the context?

briany

Hurrache wrote: »

I think it reflects the level of exasperation at this point. They know more than we do as to what's happening, suggested and being said behind closed doors, it must be more off the wall to what we're hearing in public.

The ERG and their allies don't want the deal to go through regardless so they've nothing to lose there. The audience for the comments today are everyone else in Europe. Diane Dodds on RTE now, having the gall to start her statement crying about inflammatory language.

I don't blame them for being exasperated, but it sounds like they've given up on the kind of calm political language that typified the first 18 months or so of the A50 process (up until May's speech after Salzburg). Lot of Brexiteer comments below that tweet ironically thanking Verhofstadt for helping them reaffirm their vote in their minds, and so on.

MrMusician18

downcow wrote: »

Can you not see that you have the mirror image in you media in the south. You need to watch both to get a decent perspective.

Well yes and no. RTE has actually been quite measured in it's coverage of this never ending story. That said major domestic crises are hard for domestic media to cover because the crisis often highlights their own failings. RTE wasn't great during our financial crisis, where the BBC, with no skin in the game had a rather even handed approach to the story.

That said, if Katya Adler was working for RTE the coverage might not be any better.