Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

ziggyman17

so if the UK crashes out with a no-deal, will that make them untrustworthy among other nations when looking to set up trading deals ? To me they have always been untrustworthy but now the world will get to see them for what they really are.......

Capt'n Midnight

McGiver wrote: »

no amount of appeasement or compromising will make HMG a trustworthy negotiating party, it seems rather the opposite.

Does the UK need reminding about the dangers of appeasement ?

And is the Withdrawal Agreement to be treated as just a piece of paper ?

Anthracite

Joanna Better Hairpiece wrote: »

Generally that includes Silema, St.J and many other nearby urban areas which are all a stones throw away. Again check your figures as 480 is wrong, as it calling Cork (city area) anywhere near to 1/2m.

My figures for Malta seem to be wrong on the high side - CIA factbook as the whole country (including Gozo) at 450k. Where have you seen 550k?

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/mt.html

Joanna Better Hairpiece wrote: »

Val already has (developed) docklands, hence all the crusie ships. There are similaraities as others have mentioned driving on left, 3pin plugs, and even red postboxes/phoneboxes. Not to mention 'tax friendly' factors in both. The 4th Ind Rev generally won't lend itself towards heavy industry/manufacturing.

Their docklands are already developed - so where are all the new offices and residential buildings for migrating companies to go?

It's a pretty silly argument to suggest that 'Valetta City' (pop. 6000 or so) is effectively the whole of Malta all the way across to Melieha Bay.

I'm sure you will also have noted how long it takes to travel around Malta. Travelling from Ballincollig to Carrigaline will take you a while, but not nearly as long as it would take to cross from one side of 'Valleta City' (i.e. Malta apparently) to the other...

4068ac1elhodqr

Anthracite wrote: »

My figures for Malta seem to be wrong on the high side

I'm sure you will also have noted how long it takes to travel around Malta. Travelling from Ballincollig to Carrigaline will take you a while, but not nearly as long as it would take to cross from one side of 'Valleta City' (i.e. Malta apparently) to the other...

Ah yes about 460, not sure where 550 came from lol.

Essentialy it's more urban (they don't stop building at the 8th floor), the 460k is mainly centrally located on the SE (CBD) of the island (316 km² total area), easy to access quickly on scooter, whereas Cork (and county) is dispersed over 7,500 km² - a bit of a drive about alright.

To me Cork is more of a large town, and somewhat remote (it would a whole hour less in time to drive to Belfast from Dublin, than Dublin to Cork.)

An Ciarraioch

ziggyman17 wrote: »

so if the UK crashes out with a no-deal, will that make them untrustworthy among other nations when looking to set up trading deals ? To me they have always been untrustworthy but now the world will get to see them for what they really are.......

The most important trade deal of all has already been completed!

http://twitter.com/KristinaHafoss/status/1090994250169356289

bob mcbob

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

We fought the Establishment and the Establishment lost.

I heard it described differently - That the English working class decided to make a protest about the bed they were sleeping in by sh**ing in it .

For Forks Sake

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

The most important trade deal of all has already been completed!

http://twitter.com/KristinaHafoss/status/1090994250169356289

I thought they were prohibited from signing any deals whilst still in the EU?

4068ac1elhodqr

Assuming hard exit, will the regular Joe on the street, face some rations?
(council taxes, transport, public services, tv licence and most essentials going up in price regardless).

The green bookies have these items listed, with a shortening price on Beef produce (20/1) to be the 1st to be withheld.
Milk also a possibility (12, or 11/1). UHT/Powder white just isn't the same in the breakfast tea.



Come to think of it, there has been widespread 'veg burger/sausages' promotions recently.
Will there be regular lethargic queues weighing outside Greggs stores on the horizon?

Strazdas

For Forks Sake wrote: »

I thought they were prohibited from signing any deals whilst still in the EU?

Well the Faroe Islands is not an independent country : it is a devolved region of Denmark (similar to Wales and NI's status within the UK)

tuxy

Strazdas wrote: »

Well the Faroe Islands is not an independent country : it is a devolved region of Denmark (similar to Wales and NI's status within the UK)

But they are outside the customs area of Denmark so when it comes to trade they are independent.

Water John

So UK have signed a deal with Mainland.

briany

Joanna Better Hairpiece wrote: »

Assuming hard exit, will the regular Joe on the street, face some rations?
(council taxes, transport, public services, tv licence and most essentials going up in price regardless).

The green bookies have these items listed, with a shortening price on Beef produce (20/1) to be the 1st to be withheld.
Milk also a possibility (12, or 11/1). UHT/Powder white just isn't the same in the breakfast tea.



Come to think of it, there has been widespread 'veg burger/sausages' promotions recently.
Will there be regular lethargic queues weighing outside Greggs stores on the horizon?

When you put the prospect of shortages to true blue Brexiteers, their response seems to be either that it is scaremongering or that firms will find a way to import whatever's necessary to meed demand. Companies like Tesco are such major business concerns that they will be able work around whatever obstacles are put in place by a no-deal Brexit, is their reasoning. And there's very little you can say to convince such Brexiteers otherwise. Maybe they think a no-deal will be the second coming of the cockney spiv who can get you anything for a bob.

It just seems to me that there is a chasm that cannot be bridged between whatever people say will happen after Brexit, and whatever will actually happen after Brexit. It's a bit like the mystery of death - many people have an idea one way or another, but by the point that it is known for sure, it will be too late to go back and tell everyone.

Graphs and statistics just bounce off the skulls of Brexiteers like Nerf darts.

Capt'n Midnight

For Forks Sake wrote: »

I thought they were prohibited from signing any deals whilst still in the EU?

Fish.

UK and Faroe Islands sign trade continuity agreement
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-faroe-islands-sign-trade-continuity-agreement

The new UK-Faroe Islands agreement replicates the existing trading arrangements as far as possible. It will come into effect as soon as the implementation period ends in January 2021, or on 29 March 2019 if the UK leaves the EU without a deal.

CelticRambler

briany wrote: »

And there's very little you can say to convince such Brexiteers otherwise. Maybe they think a no-deal will be the second coming of the cockney spiv who can get you anything for a bob.

Well, yerman the other day was talking about smuggling lettuces over from France ... I suppose it's only to be expected that a certain amount of lawbreaking is to be condoned by people who believe in a referendum that was won on the back of criminal activity. :rolleyes:

Meanwhile, about that Faroe trade deal. I'm confused:

The new UK-Faroe Islands agreement replicates the existing trading arrangements as far as possible.

this agreement will allow imports to continue tariff-free and enable businesses to trade as freely as they do now.

Consumers in the UK will potentially benefit from greater choice and lower prices for fish and seafood

How will UK consumers benefit from "greater choice and lower prices" by replicating the existing (tariff-free) arrangements?

Oh well, at least the hungry Brit won't be disappointed if he follows Sammy's advice to "go down the chippy." :pac:

Harry Palmr

A breakaway party is threatened - from the Labour side which means they'll have a meeting, be unable to outline a basic policy platform, get bored and go home with no party actually formed.

Capt'n Midnight

Oh gawd... this doesn't bode well for the Rest Of The World deals.


The new UK-Faroe Islands agreement replicates the existing trading arrangements as far as possible. ie. the UK is NOT taking back control of fishing.

It took two years to do a status quo deal with a single product island nation of 51,000. And the UK has not won any concessions from them even though the Faroese are totally dependent on selling fish which forms 98% of exports.


This means the Faroese can continue to sell fish caught in UK waters back to the UK :rolleyes:
https://www.seafoodsource.com/news/supply-trade/mackerel-deal-between-eu-and-faroe-islands-is-criticized-by-scottish-commercial-fishing-groups

Scottish boats did not catch any mackerel in Faroese waters in 2015, while Faroese boats caught 33,000 metric tons of mackerel in E.U. waters – mostly in the Scottish EEZ – according to a report by U.K. authority Seafish.

In a press release, the Scottish Pelagic Fishermen and the Scottish Pelagic Processors Association said the bilateral deal is “heavily skewed” in favor of the Faroese and pushed for a fairer access agreement to be negotiated.

Anthracite

It's not a good day when you get your pants pulled down by the mighty Faroe Islands.

EdgeCase

I'd assume that if the EU just sits and waits that the UK will eventually end up signing a trade deal on EU terms anyway.

They've absolutely zero leverage other than pure arrogance and bluster.

Strazdas

briany wrote: »

When you put the prospect of shortages to true blue Brexiteers, their response seems to be either that it is scaremongering or that firms will find a way to import whatever's necessary to meed demand. Companies like Tesco are such major business concerns that they will be able work around whatever obstacles are put in place by a no-deal Brexit, is their reasoning. And there's very little you can say to convince such Brexiteers otherwise. Maybe they think a no-deal will be the second coming of the cockney spiv who can get you anything for a bob.

It just seems to me that there is a chasm that cannot be bridged between whatever people say will happen after Brexit, and whatever will actually happen after Brexit. It's a bit like the mystery of death - many people have an idea one way or another, but by the point that it is known for sure, it will be too late to go back and tell everyone.

Graphs and statistics just bounce off the skulls of Brexiteers like Nerf darts.

Virtually the only thing that will register with Leave voters is if they succeed in crashing the economy. When you watch the discussions on forums and Twitter, they are not actually engaging in debate.....they are merely spouting Vote Leave slogans and soundbites. Anyone who says anything critical about Brexit is dismissed as spreading lies or scaremongering.

Seth Brundle

MSNBC's take on Brexit (things are bad when the American media can explain it better than some of the UK stations!)...

https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1091409385178439681?s=19

branie2

No deal Brexit - disaster in my book

Leonard Hofstadter

EdgeCase wrote: »

I'd assume that if the EU just sits and waits that the UK will eventually end up signing a trade deal on EU terms anyway.

They've absolutely zero leverage other than pure arrogance and bluster.

And that's exactly why our Government must not give them an inch regarding the backstop. I don't think they will, otherwise they will be absolutely decimated in any subsequent election. No deal means absolute chaos and they will have no leverage on anything with the EU, to paraphrase a Leave campaign phrase, 'they need us more than we need them', so item number one in any free trade deal will be the backstop, closely followed by the €45 billion.

briany

Strazdas wrote: »

Virtually the only thing that will register with Leave voters is if they succeed in crashing the economy. When you watch the discussions on forums and Twitter, they are not actually engaging in debate.....they are merely spouting Vote Leave slogans and soundbites. Anyone who says anything critical about Brexit is dismissed as spreading lies or scaremongering.

It's crazy. If you watch Question Time on BBC, it's the same exact points being made by audience members of both persuasions, week in and week out. It's nearly even the same wording.



"..... so it should be put back to the people!!....." (round of applause)


".....17.4 million!!...." (round of applause)


I think the sloganeering is going on with both sides. Both sides are absolutely entrenched. There's as much chance of the line moving as there was for the Western Front in 1916.

Strazdas

briany wrote: »

It's crazy. If you watch Question Time on BBC, it's the same exact points being made by audience members of both persuasions, week in and week out. It's nearly even the same wording.



"..... so it should be put back to the people!!....." (round of applause)


".....17.4 million!!...." (round of applause)


I think the sloganeering is going on with both sides. Both sides are absolutely entrenched. There's as much chance of the line moving as there was for the Western Front in 1916.

It's more like a cult or a political ideology, rather than 'having a position on the referendum result'. People are coming from it as if the political ideology is the right one no matter what and are fitting all their arguments around it.

They're going to wreck their country because of it though. If they cannot compromise and they insist on the ideology being implemented, it can only end very badly. They are like a bunch of punch drunk Marxists who suddenly have the opportunity to make the UK a Marxist country via a referendum result.

Capt'n Midnight

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

So, as I understand it:

1. The SUV is currently built in Japan,
2. No announcement has been made about cancelling or postponing plans to produce it at Sunderland,
3. We do not know the reason this would have happened
4. Possibilities include the fall in car sales in general, the fall in Diesel sales in particular and the problems arising from replacing Ghosn
5. It may also be worried about Brexit or the impending Eurozone recession

You can argue about one product in one plant, but when the entire industry is drawing in their horns ?
n 2015, car manufacturers invested £2.5bn in the UK. Since then it has fallen ever year and in 2018 was just £589m. '

Inward investment fell 46.5% to £588.6m last year from £1.1bn in 2017, the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) says.

Production fell 9.1% to 1.52m vehicles, with output for the UK and for export falling 16.3% and 7.3% respectively.

To put that in perspective, both VW and Ford have margins of 4%
So the £600m investment shortfall would represent £15 billion of income.

Rain Ascending

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

So, as I understand it:

1. The SUV is currently built in Japan,
2. No announcement has been made about cancelling or postponing plans to produce it at Sunderland,
3. We do not know the reason this would have happened
4. Possibilities include the fall in car sales in general, the fall in Diesel sales in particular and the problems arising from replacing Ghosn
5. It may also be worried about Brexit or the impending Eurozone recession

We'll know one way or the other on Monday -- there are media reports that there will be an announcement then.

But either way, this narrative ignores one of the major problems with a no-deal Brexit: having a 10% tariff slapped on a firm's product line makes a marginal business case deeply negative. In other words, the first big casualties of Brexit will be those firms, those investment proposals that were struggling in the first place.

Here's an example from Ireland. Not long after the Brexit vote, the resulting drop in the value of the pound with respect to the Euro put a mushroom producer out of business. Their main market with the UK and it was a low margin business that couldn't withstand the shock of the currency shift.

A mushroom producer in Ireland out of business; major car manufacturer in the UK cancelling future investment. The weaker companies first.

But the disruption of Brexit on the business world is just beginning and will extend into healthier businesses. For a sense of the scale of it, consider this report from the UK Institute of Directors showing that 29% of their members are considering making or have already made Brexit-related investments in the EU. That's investment being diverted from the UK and will be a significant drag on the UK economy that's very hard to reverse with the UK dropping out of the Single Market and the customs union.

A large, stable market is always going to leach investment out of a neighboring small unstable one... And that is why the Republic of Ireland, to touch on another discussion here, won't jeopardize its membership of the Single Market.

Rain Ascending

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

To put that in perspective, both VW and Ford have margins of 4%

Thanks for this figure!

So slapping on a 10% no-deal WTO tariff becomes hugely problematic. If demand is highly elastic, i.e. very price sensitive, then those margins can easily disappear. The best place for production then has to be from within the biggest market (in this case the EU) or in countries with a trade agreement with that market (e.g. Japan). What might have been a long protracted investment discussion between the CEO and his/her direct reports, becomes very, very short indeed...

MPFGLB

Well the Brexiter economist predicted (and welcomed) the winding down of the car industry in the UK..its a good thing seemingly

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/devastating-future-welsh-manufacturing-predicted-15323164

Zubeneschamali

MPFGLB wrote: »

Well the Brexiter economist predicted (and welcomed) the winding down of the car industry in the UK..its a good thing seemingly

From that article, in the runup to the referendum in 2016, he said: Obviously protection will be removed quite slowly in response to free trade agreements around the world so it won’t all happen overnight but probably, if you are looking [10 years ahead] we will see it moving up, becoming more productive really.”

This is not at all what is going to happen in a crash-out.

jochenstacker

MPFGLB wrote: »

Well the Brexiter economist predicted (and welcomed) the winding down of the car industry in the UK..its a good thing seemingly

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/devastating-future-welsh-manufacturing-predicted-15323164

It really goes to show that there are mainly two types of brexiteers.
The first is the type who fell for the lies and the deception of the leave side, who promised them unicorns and rainbows.
The second ones are the leave campaigners who will destroy the lives of the very people who voted for them by destroying the labour market as it exists today.
Brexit is their wet dream, by eroding worker's rights, decimating wages and putting millions of people on the dole.
A desperate workforce is one that will accept any job at any pay and conditions.
And people will gladly vote for their doom if you just bang the propaganda drum hard enough.
This demonstrates the weakness of democracy. The electorate can be exploited by unscrupulous people who manipulate them with lies and deception.

In short, over the next few years the British people will find out that the leave vote was an orchestrated coup by a group of disaster capitalists to get enormously rich by deliberately crashing the country onto a cliff.
IMO they should be tried for treason.

Working class heroes

Anthracite wrote: »

It's not a good day when you get your pants pulled down by the mighty Faroe Islands.

Yes, it’s official. They are away with the Faroes.

Peregrinus

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Oh gawd... this doesn't bode well for the Rest Of The World deals.


The new UK-Faroe Islands agreement replicates the existing trading arrangements as far as possible. ie. the UK is NOT taking back control of fishing.

It took two years to do a status quo deal with a single product island nation of 51,000. And the UK has not won any concessions from them even though the Faroese are totally dependent on selling fish which forms 98% of exports.


This means the Faroese can continue to sell fish caught in UK waters back to the UK :rolleyes:
https://www.seafoodsource.com/news/supply-trade/mackerel-deal-between-eu-and-faroe-islands-is-criticized-by-scottish-commercial-fishing-groups

Apparently the Faroese hold all the cards.

Anthracite

MPFGLB wrote: »

Well the Brexiter economist predicted (and welcomed) the winding down of the car industry in the UK..its a good thing seemingly

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/devastating-future-welsh-manufacturing-predicted-15323164

I would genuinely like to know exactly how Mogg and Minford think that 'metal bashers' as he calls them in these factories will turn into engineers - if they didn't have the money, ability or desire to do so when they were young, how will they suddenly find all three in their 30s/40s/50s?

Harry Palmr

Theresa Mays exit to Brussels with an interview invoking battles and Britain and being armed just sets the right tone doesn't it?

Capt'n Midnight

Peregrinus wrote: »

Apparently the Faroese hold all the cards.

Reality Check :
It's a £200m trade deal that could cost them 12 seats in Scotland.

What ever happened to taking back control ?



Besides the margin on that deal is way below the going rate to buy a single MP.

Brexit: John McDonnell rejects any funds deal for votes

The government is understood to be considering proposals from a group of Labour MPs in predominantly Leave-supporting constituencies to allocate more funds to their communities for big infrastructure projects.

It is thought the MPs have urged the prime minister to consider re-allocating the EU's regional aid budget away from big cities and local councils and to give the cash direct to smaller communities, often in former steel and coal mining areas.

Impetus

Looking at the route from Ireland to Paris, a direct trip to Paris does not increase from 20 to 40 hours (comparing via GB travel with direct travel).

The media idiots have created an echo chamber of untruth, and the concept is going unchallenged.

Google maps puts the route from Cork to Paris at 15h41 min via Dublin and GB (1'337 km), 17h53 (1'143 km) and directly (via Roscoff) 19h6 min (1'159 km).

Going via Dublin is the longest route in km terms - mainly because of the clueless motorway network design foisted on the country by politicians and others. But due to the speed limits and road infrastructure is the fastest.

The main limiting factor on the direct Cork Roscoff Paris route is the number of sailings - practical terms. The journey time could be reduced by using waterjet technologies (eg Finland's Wärtsilä - powered by clean nastural gas) putting it on a par with the time taken via Dublin. Obviously the real speed would be dictated by sea conditions - but the real speed via GB has lots of unknowns (weather, traffic, poor road infrastructure etc) in terms of end to end journey times.

Google journey time comparison: https://tinyurl.com/ybkaprr9

Engine: https://tinyurl.com/yaplcbjt

fergiesfolly

Won't say this very often, but I thought Mary Lou spoke very well on Andrew Marr right now.
It's vital that all parties show a United front to the UK and the EU and she really put party polititics aside and pushed the national agenda.
Pity the UK politicians can't do the same.

CelticRambler

Impetus wrote: »

Google maps puts the route from Cork to Paris at 15h41 min via Dublin and GB (1'337 km), 17h53 (1'143 km) and directly (via Roscoff) 19h6 min (1'159 km).

Google maps is woefully optimistic with regards to vehicular journey times, and pretty useless if that vehicle weighs more than 3.5t or happens to be towing a trailer. On continental journeys, I've found it to be as much as 25% out (faster) than the forecast for same route on viamichelin. The latter has one of the crappiest journey-planning websites, but I think Michelin know more about European roads than the IT bods in Silicon Valley.

Google also disregards the legal requirement to stop every so often. Human journey planners find ways to incorporate those stops efficiently into long treks. Unless, of course, that's a full stop at a closed border/customs check point.

embraer170

Nissan have a confirmed the Sunderland story. While not explicitly blaming Brexit uncertainty, the language is pretty clear.

https://news.sky.com/story/nissan-boss-confirms-sunderland-blow-brexit-not-helping-11626958

He added that the announcement would be "interpreted by a lot of people as a decision related to Brexit" and that "uncertainty around the UK's future relationship with the EU is not helping companies like ours to plan for the future".

VonZan

embraer170 wrote: »

Nissan have a confirmed the Sunderland story. While not explicitly blaming Brexit uncertainty, the language is pretty clear.

https://news.sky.com/story/nissan-boss-confirms-sunderland-blow-brexit-not-helping-11626958

He added that the announcement would be "interpreted by a lot of people as a decision related to Brexit" and that "uncertainty around the UK's future relationship with the EU is not helping companies like ours to plan for the future".

It's hard to feel sorry for the workers. 61% voted for this. What did they think would happen?

On another note, can anyone work out how the Conservatives have made gains again? I understand Labour dropping but it's strange to see the Tories gain support. Was it the Brady amendment? Possibly Northern Labour voters switching allegiance.

Surely a Labour will turn on Corbyn soon.

Impetus

CelticRambler wrote: »

Google also disregards the legal requirement to stop every so often. Human journey planners find ways to incorporate those stops efficiently into long treks. Unless, of course, that's a full stop at a closed border/customs check point.

Why does a driver (and tractor) have to travel on a ferry?

The delivery driver could be based on the French side (using an LHD tractor), and pull the load off a boat, which only has a ferry crew on it. Even if the driver travels with the load, he is surely resting during the cruise (ie s/he is not driving). It is not possible with current technology to sleep while driving a truck through GB.

While Google may be optimistic - and is using timings for a car as opposed to a truck, it is using the same model to compute travel via GB routes as for IE <> FR direct trips.

In any event, I am proposing an LNG waterjet traction system for the maritime link, which is far faster than any freight ship currently serving Ireland at present.

Insular Ireland thinking!

Water Jet videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCpVvWrK_Ic

Simulation of water jet propelled tanker (in a tsunami)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4AOkeyRsm0

Celtic sea map with depths:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/Celtic_Sea_and_Bay_of_Biscay_bathymetric_map-en.svg

Could container ships as fast as speedboats soon shorten global supply chains? A transport revolution is waiting to happen

https://www.economist.com/business/2001/08/02/how-to-shrink-the-world

mickoneill31

CelticRambler wrote: »

Google maps is woefully optimistic with regards to vehicular journey times, and pretty useless if that vehicle weighs more than 3.5t or happens to be towing a trailer. On continental journeys, I've found it to be as much as 25% out (faster) than the forecast for same route on viamichelin. The latter has one of the crappiest journey-planning websites, but I think Michelin know more about European roads than the IT bods in Silicon Valley.

Google also disregards the legal requirement to stop every so often. Human journey planners find ways to incorporate those stops efficiently into long treks. Unless, of course, that's a full stop at a closed border/customs check point.

So the summary is that Google Maps isn't the correct tool to measure journey times for trucks, which in fairness I don't think is its intended purpose.

briany

VonZan wrote: »

It's hard to feel sorry for the workers. 61% voted for this. What did they think would happen?

I don't think there was a whole lot of considered thinking involved. Politicians like Jacob Rees Mogg may be able to more eloquently state why he thinks Brexit's a good idea, but on the street the argument appears to be more emotional than anything.

Taking Sunderland as an example - I watched Sunderland 'til I Die recently, and the picture painted is one that many northern English towns seem to share in. It used to have a lot of industry, but it's been gradually stripped out, and you now have a town that's just trying to keep its head above water. When certain Brexit voters talk about it being a protest vote, I guess Sunderland would be a prime host to that type - to make something, anything, change. And not everybody in Sunderland works for Nissan so we cannot assume they should have thought what'll happen to that factory, and even of those who do, I'd wonder if they voted for Brexit 60/40.

Donald Trump

Impetus wrote: »

Looking at the route from Ireland to Paris, a direct trip to Paris does not increase from 20 to 40 hours (comparing via GB travel with direct travel).

The media idiots have created an echo chamber of untruth, and the concept is going unchallenged.

Google maps puts the route from Cork to Paris at 15h41 min via Dublin and GB (1'337 km), 17h53 (1'143 km) and directly (via Roscoff) 19h6 min (1'159 km).

Going via Dublin is the longest route in km terms - mainly because of the clueless motorway network design foisted on the country by politicians and others. But due to the speed limits and road infrastructure is the fastest.

The main limiting factor on the direct Cork Roscoff Paris route is the number of sailings - practical terms. The journey time could be reduced by using waterjet technologies (eg Finland's Wärtsilä - powered by clean nastural gas) putting it on a par with the time taken via Dublin. Obviously the real speed would be dictated by sea conditions - but the real speed via GB has lots of unknowns (weather, traffic, poor road infrastructure etc) in terms of end to end journey times.

Google journey time comparison: https://tinyurl.com/ybkaprr9

Engine: https://tinyurl.com/yaplcbjt

Or we could just build a big cannon or catapult and fire the exports to France?




Being serious, if you think it is possible and cost effective to transport all goods via ferry then you need to get the finance together to put your plan into action and corner the market. Even if Brexit doesn't happen, surely you're still going to be able to compete? And given that traffic and transport costs tend to go only in one direction, you're advantage would only increase over time

KildareP

Impetus wrote: »

Why does a driver (and tractor) have to travel on a ferry?

The delivery driver could be based on the French side (using an LHD tractor), and pull the load off a boat, which only has a ferry crew on it. Even if the driver travels with the load, he is surely resting during the cruise (ie s/he is not driving). It is not possible with current technology to sleep while driving a truck through GB.

While Google may be optimistic - and is using timings for a car as opposed to a truck, it is using the same model to compute travel via GB routes as for IE <> FR direct trips.

In any event, I am proposing an LNG waterjet traction system for the maritime link, which is far faster than any freight ship currently serving Ireland at present.

Insular Ireland thinking!

Waterjet is incredibly more expensive to run however and has not had great success on the Irish Sea to date.

Stena long since withdrew all three HSS gas-turbine waterjet craft.
Two of the three have now been scrapped - well before their expected service life.
The fuel costs were astronomical when they ran 99 minute crossings, with 5 return trips a day and over the years they both extended the voyage time beyond 2 hours and cut the frequency to just one return trip a day.

Irish Ferries have had a bit better luck with their diesel waterjet craft, but even they have halved the number of crossings over the years. They also recently sold the first Swift craft to be replaced with a vessel just two years "newer" than the existing Swift but with a much slower service speed which would again point to fuel costs not being worth the faster voyage time.

Hurrache

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

So, as I understand it:

1. The SUV is currently built in Japan,
2. No announcement has been made about cancelling or postponing plans to produce it at Sunderland,
3. We do not know the reason this would have happened
4. Possibilities include the fall in car sales in general, the fall in Diesel sales in particular and the problems arising from replacing Ghosn
5. It may also be worried about Brexit or the impending Eurozone recession

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1092027894610755586?s=19

briany

When is the next big news frenzy expected?

Sam Russell

Boris Johnson dumps Brexit parliamentary paperwork in fuel station bin

Bumbling Boris Johnson has trashed his own Brexit plans – dumping a load of paperwork in a petrol station bin.

The calamitous Conservative stuffed 70 pages of parliamentary work in the rubbish container after pulling up with a passenger, thought to be new love Carrie Symonds, 30.


But he was in such a rush that some pages fell to the ground as he ran across the forecourt to pay for his petrol.

The documents – including handwritten memos on the economy, the Irish backstop and his Brexit views – were picked up by a baffled member of the public and shown to the Sunday Mirror.

The finder said: “He says he wants to be Prime Minister. But how could he look after the country when he can’t even keep hold of his own notes on the biggest crisis in decades? It’s really unbelievable he put these documents in a public bin without shredding them.

Once a fool, always a fool.

Sorry, it's from the Daily Mirror.

Capt'n Midnight

VonZan wrote: »

It's hard to feel sorry for the workers. 61% voted for this. What did they think would happen?

On another note, can anyone work out how the Conservatives have made gains again? I understand Labour dropping but it's strange to see the Tories gain support. Was it the Brady amendment? Possibly Northern Labour voters switching allegiance.

Surely a Labour will turn on Corbyn soon.

This is more about Labour being unelectable than anything else.

FPTP means there is no point in voting for a third option.
Unless you live in NI or Scotland where there is no point in voting for any of the three main English parties.

https://www.rte.ie/news/uk/2019/0203/1027202-uk-politics-brexit/

Public approval of Mr Corbyn's personal handling of Brexit also fell to a new low of just 16%, from 18% two weeks previously.

His disapproval rating is 61% and he has support from little more than four in ten Labour voters (42%), according to the poll.

Capt'n Midnight

Impetus wrote: »

Why does a driver (and tractor) have to travel on a ferry?

Half the traffic on the Irish Sea is already unaccompanied.

On longer journeys the % is even higher.

For the channel the trip is shorter so not such a biggie. But if there are queue's and delays and passport controls then it's going to cost more to pay for the driver's downtime. And you don't have to ship the tractor.