Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

listermint

I didn't know you had to go out of the touch site to the full site to get the ignore post option. Valuable information and worth the minute or so it took me

alloywheel

It reminds me of the Falklands war, and when things were looking doidgy for the British Haughety put the jibe in against the British and stood up for the Malvinas etc. I remember people joking about would we get Argentian viositors that following summer! Of course the Argi visitors did not come, and UK visitor numbers were down a lot for a number of years. I think Leo should be very careful not to alienate our biggest trading partner (in terms of tourism and imports) and nearest neighbour.

Anthracite

listermint wrote: »

Your doing it again.

Our trade with the UK is down double percentage points

This stuff is incredibly embarrassing. You realise these posts stay here, right ?

I have a suspicion we will see a new incarnation in the not too distant future.

downcow

The arrogance of Irish people is incredible. "we are the EU" I think a reality check is called for.
I will take no pleasure in watching the fall from grace march/april. The EU does not need Ireland but it will feel a fairly big affect if it falls out with UK.

I reckon we will get an announcement at the 11th/12th hour which simply says we have reached an agreement. They won't tell us much else until the dust settles. We will eventually be given a fudge that protects trade between EU & UK. Ireland will have to smile and say we are happy with the deal and we'll all move on. Ireland, eu and uk will all be ok. Don't panic Mr Mannering

CelticRambler

Leroy42 wrote: »

Now that Leo has insulted them so much, I do not think we will get as many UK visitors this year.

Did you miss the DFA's reporting of UK applications for Irish passports being at a record high? If there's a drop in the number of UK visitors, it'll be because their £ is has plummeted in value and they can't afford to leave their island (assuming they can even get a place on the ferry).

Enzokk

alloywheel wrote: »

It reminds me of the Falklands war, and when things were looking doidgy for the British Haughety put the jibe in against the British and stood up for the Malvinas etc. I remember people joking about would we get Argentian viositors that following summer! Of course the Argi visitors did not come, and UK visitor numbers were down a lot for a number of years. I think Leo should be very careful not to alienate our biggest trading partner (in terms of tourism and imports) and nearest neighbour.

Regarding trade and where the UK stands in relation to other countries, it is very much like the argument about German car makers coming in to save the UK. You can see what the reaction has been from them and just replicate it for us and the UK.

The UK is the biggest market for German car makers. However, if you add all the other EU countries together as they will still be the single market and the UK will be separate then German car makers has more trade with the single market than the UK. So the importance of the collection of EU countries outweighs the importance of what is your biggest market within the EU.

Do you understand that concept?

10000maniacs

alloywheel wrote: »

You are wrong again, not surprising considering the amount of anti-UK propoganda we are subject to in Ireland.

The UK is our biggest import partner.
1 UK 18,868 million 24
2 USA 16,368 million 21
3 France 10,500 million 13
4 Germany 6,890 million 9
5 China 4,424


https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-ti/irelandstradeingoods2017/toptradingpartners2017/

In terms of exports the UK is our second biggest.

Below is a list showcasing 15 of Ireland’s top trading partners in terms of Irish export sales. That is, countries that imported the most Irish shipments by dollar value during 2017. Also shown is each import country’s percentage of total Irish exports.

United States: US$36.1 billion (26.8% of total Irish exports)
United Kingdom: $18.3 billion (13.5%)
Belgium: $15 billion (11.1%)
Germany: $10.8 billion (8%)
Switzerland: $7 billion (5.2%)
Netherlands: $6.7 billion (4.9%)
France: $5.9 billion (4.3%)
China: $4.8 billion (3.6%)


http://www.worldstopexports.com/irelands-top-import-partners/

No, the EU is our biggest trading partner with the UK a poor second. The EU should be treated as a single entity as economically it actually is. Going by those figures our imports and exports to and from the UK cancel each other out. We just need to trade elsewhere to fill the gap left by Brexit.

Enzokk

downcow wrote: »

The arrogance of Irish people is incredible. "we are the EU" I think a reality check is called for.
I will take no pleasure in watching the fall from grace march/april. The EU does not need Ireland but it will feel a fairly big affect if it falls out with UK.

I reckon we will get an announcement at the 11th/12th hour which simply says we have reached an agreement. They won't tell us much else until the dust settles. We will eventually be given a fudge that protects trade between EU & UK. Ireland will have to smile and say we are happy with the deal and we'll all move on. Ireland, eu and uk will all be ok. Don't panic Mr Mannering

I thought about replying to this and explaining hoe the EU works but I don't have the patience for it. If the EU throws us under the bus at the 11th hour then you will have to wait in line to celebrate as there has been many previous predictions that this would happen.

alloywheel

downcow wrote: »

The arrogance of Irish people is incredible. "we are the EU" I think a reality check is called for.
I will take no pleasure in watching the fall from grace march/april. The EU does not need Ireland but it will feel a fairly big affect if it falls out with UK.

I look forward to seeing the smile wiped from Leo Vrad. face when the expected tourists from Brussels fail to replace the missing UK tourists next summer, and the EU tells Leo to erect a hard border.

lawred2

alloywheel wrote: »

I look forward to seeing the smile wiped from Leo Vrad. face when the expected tourists from Brussels fail to replace the missing UK tourists next summer, and the EU tells Leo to erect a hard border.

Weird thing to look forward to but I suppose everyone has their own perversion.

alloywheel

Hurrache wrote: »

Who?

The tee-shock. Or Taoiseach as some may call him. You may have seen him sneering at our neighbours recently.

Enzokk

alloywheel wrote: »

I look forward to seeing the smile wiped from Leo Vrad. face when the expected tourists from Brussels fail to replace the missing UK tourists next summer, and the EU tells Leo to erect a hard border.

If the EU "forces" us to put up a hard border we will have more to worry about than replacing UK visitors to Ireland. I would suggest those in the UK will be worrying more about other things as well than their trip to Ireland. In any case, anyone in Ireland relishing that needs to have a talk with themselves in all honesty. You will be celebrating the worst case scenario and hardship for a lot of people.

AtomicHorror

I don't agree with downcow on anything else so far, but repeatedly insisting that a person is part of a culture they say they are not part of is bizarre. Sure isn't driving the conversation anywhere interesting.

An Ciarraioch

AtomicHorror wrote: »

I don't agree with downcow on anything else so far, but repeatedly insisting that a person is part of a culture they say they are not part of is bizarre. Sure isn't driving the conversation anywhere interesting.

Agreed, but saying that someone is geographically Irish fully acknowledges their right not to be considered culturally Irish.

alloywheel

lawred2 wrote: »

Weird thing to look forward to but I suppose everyone has their own perversion.

He will have his come-uppance yet, before too long, rest assured. He thought it was good to sneer at our nearest neighbours and biggest trading partner (in terms of tourism, imports etc) and get digs in against "de Brits". He thinks it wise not to compromise or deal with them.

As I said earlier "It reminds me of the Falklands war, and when things were looking dodgy for the British Haughey put the jibe in against the British and stood up for the Malvinas etc. I remember people joking about would we get Argentian viositors that following summer! The British went on to win the war. Of course the Argi visitors did not come, and UK visitor numbers were down a lot for a number of years." I think Leo should be very careful not to further alienate our biggest partner and nearest neighbour.

FrancieBrady

alloywheel wrote: »

I look forward to seeing the smile wiped from Leo Vrad. face when the expected tourists from Brussels fail to replace the missing UK tourists next summer, and the EU tells Leo to erect a hard border.

Are the attractions that bring tourists going to disappear?
UK tourists will disappear because they cannot afford to tour. We did our best to stop them hurting themselves but if they crash out (they won't because they would be gone long ago if they were convinced of their own arguments/not scared) then the tourist business will just have to readjust, just like they did after so many set backs before - 9-11, foot and mouth, recession etc

An Ciarraioch

alloywheel wrote: »

He will have his come-uppance yet, before too long, rest assured. He thought it was good to sneer at our nearest neighbours and biggest trading partner (in terms of tourism, imports etc) and get digs in against "de Brits". He thinks it wise not to compromise or deal with them.

As I said earlier "It reminds me of the Falklands war, and when things were looking dodgy for the British Haughey put the jibe in against the British and stood up for the Malvinas etc. I remember people joking about would we get Argentian viositors that following summer! The British went on to win the war. Of course the Argi visitors did not come, and UK visitor numbers were down a lot for a number of years." I think Leo should be very careful not to further alienate our biggest partner and nearest neighbour.

Unless every British tourist elects not to visit Ireland, overall tourist numbers still increased during the years when UK visits declined.

lawred2

alloywheel wrote: »

He will have his come-uppance yet, before too long, rest assured. He thought it was good to sneer at our nearest neighbours and biggest trading partner (in terms of tourism, imports etc) and get digs in against "de Brits". He thinks it wise not to compromise or deal with them.

As I said earlier "It reminds me of the Falklands war, and when things were looking dodgy for the British Haughey put the jibe in against the British and stood up for the Malvinas etc. I remember people joking about would we get Argentian viositors that following summer! The British went on to win the war. Of course the Argi visitors did not come, and UK visitor numbers were down a lot for a number of years." I think Leo should be very careful not to further alienate our biggest partner and nearest neighbour.

Yeah whatever

Lost interest in whatever you've got to offer with that 'tee-shock' comment. Only people I've ever seen use that are the usual anti Irish bigot types who find themselves amusing.

You've put yourself in low company.

You're going on ignore

An Ciarraioch

Never mind the UK finalising a deal by March 29th, increasingly unlikely that even the Tories will reach an agreed position by then:

http://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1093971779498971136

alloywheel

Enzokk wrote: »

If the EU "forces" us to put up a hard border we will have more to worry about than replacing UK visitors to Ireland.

The UK and the Unionists do not want a hard border and will not pay a penny towards a hard border. If the EU tells us to put up a hard border they will be going against the wishes of the people of these islands. And making us all worse off. But they will not care. Wait and see;)

briany

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are the attractions that bring tourists going to disappear?
UK tourists will disappear because they cannot afford to tour. We did our best to stop them hurting themselves but if they crash out (they won't because they would be gone long ago if they were convinced of their own arguments/not scared) then the tourist business will just have to readjust, just like they did after so many set backs before - 9-11, foot and mouth, recession etc

As I understand it, British people will be allowed to come to the EU for short stays even after no-deal (3 months or less?). That plus the CTA, plus the fact that Ireland is the closest English-speaking country to the UK and its possessions, plus the fact that there are a multitude of British people with Irish relations, means that it'll probably still be fine for people to come from the UK as tourists.

alloywheel

VinLieger wrote: »

Last time i checked it was the united kingdom of great britain AND northern ireland....

The key obviously being british people are from britain...

Its sounds as stupid as the yanks who call themselves irish, italian etc cus their great great great grandfather was from there

Britain is "the mainland" for Northern Irelanders, so they are entitled to call themselves British.
Just as people born and bren in the Canaries can call themselves "Spanish" as their nationality.
Just as people from Sicily can call themselves "Italian" as their nationality.

It is very arrogant to tell people from N. Ireland what they are are and what they are not, they are entitled to call themselves whatever they want. Its a mouthful to call themselves "United Kingdomers" after their UK passport so "British" or "Northern Irish" or "Irish" if they so wish is quite ok with me, I have no problem with any of that.

FrancieBrady

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I think this sort of hair splitting is pathetic.

They see themselves as British, leave it at that.

Yes, I get your point but the fact it the British see them as Irish. Evidenced over and over again.
I don't get the insistence by unionists that they are some invented notion...given that the term 'British' is an invented notion originally as is the 'UK'
We are islands made up of different nationalities, simple as. If you choose a different identity that doesn't change where you are actually from. I respect your choice by the way.

Enzokk

alloywheel wrote: »

The UK and the Unionists do not want a hard border and will not pay a penny towards a hard border. If the EU tells us to put up a hard border they will be going against the wishes of the people of these islands. And making us all worse off. But they will not care. Wait and see;)

You cannot have your own trade deals and control your borders if you don't, you know, control your borders. It really is a simple concept. If the UK and Unionists are okay with regulatory alignment and common customs tariffs then there will not be a border. If they want to rule the world with global trade deals then they are going to have to square the circle, which after more than 2 years does not look any more possible than ever.

VinLieger

alloywheel wrote: »

Britain is "the mainland" for Northern Irelanders, so they are entitled to call themselves British.
Just as people brrn and bren in the Canaries can call themselves "Spanish" as their nationality.
Just as people from Sicily can call themselves "Italian" as their nationality.

Ohh wow, this is incorrect on so many levels but this is way off topic and its friday night so im not gonna spend it banging my head against a wall

Fr Tod Umptious

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes, I get your point but the fact it the British see them as Irish. Evidenced over and over again.
I don't get the insistence by unionists that they are some invented notion...given that the term 'British' is an invented notion originally as is the 'UK'
We are islands made up of different nationalities, simple as. If you choose a different identity that doesn't change where you are actually from. I respect your choice by the way.

It very simple.

British people will use the term Irish, English, Welsh or Scottish to distinguish one British person, or group of British people,from another.

It's used in the context of Britain, not as a standalone term.

Just like white Americans will use the term Irish American, German American, Italian American to distinguish one a person or a group of people.

So a person could be seen as both Irish and British.

CelticRambler

alloywheel wrote: »

Britain is "the mainland" for Northern Irelanders, so they are entitled to call themselves British.

And by the same logic, the continental mass of the EU is the mainland for Ireland (both jurisdictions) so we are entitled to call ourselves "the EU".

That some members of the EU electorate consider themselves outside that citizenship doesn't change the fact that they are the EU, just as much as Leo, Guy and Michel.

Christy42

Enzokk wrote: »

alloywheel wrote: »

The UK and the Unionists do not want a hard border and will not pay a penny towards a hard border. If the EU tells us to put up a hard border they will be going against the wishes of the people of these islands. And making us all worse off. But they will not care. Wait and see;)

You cannot have your own trade deals and control your borders if you don't, you know, control your borders. It really is a simple concept. If the UK and Unionists are okay with regulatory alignment and common customs tariffs then there will not be a border. If they want to rule the world with global trade deals then they are going to have to square the circle, which after more than 2 years does not look any more possible than ever.

After all the fear of the left bringing in completely open borders it would be hilarious if the right were the first to do it.

I jest, it would be horrible and the UK is not that dumb. Not charging in import tax on anything would mean a quick death for their economy and the end to any potential trade deals.

johnnyskeleton

Mod note:

Friday night doesnt mean that the rules dont apply.

Borderhopper

I think this thread is in serious danger of being permanently derailed. A few months ago it was stuffed full of useful and interesting information on pretty much everything that relates to Brexit, but it seems to have gone downhill-the thread is taken up by pages and pages of trolling, with the same incorrect/irrelevant information being repeated constantly.

Could the mods step in here, as it seems to be getting out of hand?