Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

That is an exaggeration. Only republicans are seeing it as a partition issue.

:D The UK are facing up to the problem of a stupid partition. They would be an island out of the EU if it was not for northern Ireland. Yeh...partition has nothing to do with it, :D:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Call me Al

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

It very simple.

British people will use the term Irish, English, Welsh or Scottish to distinguish one British person, or group of British people,from another.

It's used in the context of Britain, not as a standalone term.

Just like white Americans will use the term Irish American, German American, Italian American to distinguish one a person or a group of people.

So a person could be seen as both Irish and British.

But those same British people don't distinguish beyond that. A unionist from Antrim is not from NI, they're just lumped in with all the rest of us as Irish.
To the vast majority of them we over here are all the same. Irish.

View

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Brexit for the entire island of Ireland is a partition issue. Fact. And the British people are seeing it, why can't a 'Dub'?

It isn’t a partition issue. That was independence.

When the U.K. is about to go over a cliff, tying ourselves to the North, is a rejection of our independence, as it ties up permanently to the U.K.

alloywheel

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The GFA allows you to identify as you wish, it does not remove fact. If you come from Ireland you are Irish. Nobody, except hardline Irish unionists has a real problem with that.

lol I know some nationalist from the North who identify themselves as Northern Irish : that is where they are from. They are not from Co. Kerry.

People from the continent of America have the choice of describing themselves as Mexicans or Americans or Canadians, it helps identify what part of America they are from.

I know some people born and bred in the Canaries, they have a Spanish Passport and call themselves Spanish if asked their nationality, even though the Canaries are much closer to Morocco than Spain.

trashcan

downcow wrote: »

Pretty serious denial going on here. You tell me is Norther Ireland British by international law?

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The clue is in the name.

sameoldname

downcow wrote: »

And I know people in Spain who call themselves Catalan or basque but francie thinks they should just suck it up and call themselves Spanish

The equivalent would be Iberian not Spanish.

briany

Looks like Japan has been playing some hardball with the UK in preliminary trade talks

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/08/japan-seeking-big-concessions-from-britain-in-trade-talks-eu-brexit

Infini

Look to be honest we could Identify as Irish, Nordies, Brits, Klingons, Martians w/e but it's meaningless in the end. Also lets face it Identity politics are a joke theyre cancerous and honestly people should ignore it, its a trap! Fact is Brexit is a joke, brought on by a combination of Toxic Media, Oppertunistic Tory Politicians, ignorant fools, disaster capitalists and of course our wonderful sponsors the Russian Troll Federation! This should have ended a long time ago and would have if British Politicians had the cop on and integrity to call a halt to obvious outside interference but if there's a crash out it's completely on Westminster and noone else because they not only failed to agree but will fail to use the one OUT they've been given from all this which would be to cancel A50 and end this. The EU cannot and should not be blamed for protecting it's interest against a clearly incompetent and stupid government.

As for what happens here it's all up in the air but honestly a crash out will make a border poll inevitable. Regardless of how downcow or that might feel the border poll will not ultimately be about unionism or nationalism but ultimately about economics and what's in it for NI. In a no deal scenario Westminster politicians will have failed their own people and their union. The DUP will literally have shot their own voters in the feet but then again their shocking lack of even any basic ability to do their damn job should prompt serious questions as to why people should even vote for them to begin with.

A Dub in Glasgo

Finally went into control panel for the ignore function

I understand May is having dinner in Dublin - any statements issued yet?

Roanmore

Wasn’t there Mod warnings on this thread previously about the whole Irish / Northern Irish / British nationality bull****. Some posters doing it to deliberately derail the thread.

Infini

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Finally went into control panel for the ignore function

I understand May is having dinner in Dublin - any statements issued yet?

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2019/0208/1028407-leo-theresa-dinner/

Only this from RTE so far.

Roanmore wrote: »

Wasn’t there Mod warnings on this thread previously about the whole Irish / Northern Irish / British nationality bull****. Some posters doing it to deliberately derail the thread.

Think the mods are in overdrive atm page keep shifting when I update one or 2 posts...

Maybe Ill send em a coffee machine or something....

Laois_Man

Nice to see RTE keeping us all bang up-to-date on the important information

Discussions took place over a menu of cured organic salmon for starter and fillet of beef, dauphinoise potato, green beans and parsnip puree for the main course.

Dessert was a selection of Irish cheeses, meringue nest topped with seasonal fruit. Mrs May, who is diabetic, had fruit for dessert.

Seriously though. Don't expect a damn thing of any consequence to come out of it. The whole thing is a charade!

Strazdas

Laois_Man wrote: »

Nice to see RTE keeping us all bang up-to-date on the important information



Seriously though. Don't expect a damn thing of any consequence to come out of it. The whole thing is a charade!

Pretty much, yes. May invited herself to Dublin just as she invited herself to Brussels (!)

BonnieSituation

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Seasonal British immigrants in Spain freaking out over Brexit. I believe a lot of these people were pro-Brexit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXnGkUmH1zM

I find it difficult to understand how incredibly stupid and egocentric you'd have to be to live in a foreign country in the EU while voting for your home country, of which you are a citizen, to leave the EU.

The absolute gall of the ambassador to Spain:

"In a no deal scenario it will be up to the Spanish government to explain how they will deal with British citizens"

Mother of God. It's just one delusion after another.

Anthracite

BonnieSituation wrote: »

"In a no deal scenario it will be up to the Spanish government to explain how they will deal with British citizens"

Same as they would deal with hundreds of thousands of old Chinese people who want to take over their coasts and not integrate, hopefully.

Imreoir2

downcow wrote: »

I have been corrected several times on here when I refer to roi. I’ve been told that the country containing 26 counties is IRELAND. So would you agree if I live in County Down then I do not live in Ireland? You can’t have it both ways. And it was honestly an education to me to find out on here that you country is Ireland. I have pointed out to a few nationalist friends this week that you think they do not live in Ireland and they are not impressed ��

I think you may be confsing the Irish state and the Irish nation. People living in NI do not live within the Irish state (officialy called Ireland), but they can certainly belong to the Irish nation and they live on the island of Ireland and as such are welcome to say that they live in Ireland.

Now, how about we move away from the childish semantics?

Imreoir2

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

He actually did say it :pac:

https://twitter.com/Stella_Vaskoudi/status/1093944237735989248

Distorted of course, still a strange line though

Would I be correct in assuming that it was in response to a comment that would have tried to portray the EU and Irish position as being somehow at odds with one another.

As an off the bat statement "I am the EU" is a wierd statement, but in response to something like "Is your position on Brexit liable to come into conflict with the EU's?", then as a member of the European Council, it is not an unusual statement.

ThePanjandrum

So, it turns out that Seaborne Freight was a front company for Ireland's Arklow Shipping which wrote to the DfT a fortnight ago pledging its continued support but has now reneged on its deal.

Imreoir2

alloywheel wrote: »

You are wrong again, not surprising considering the amount of anti-UK propoganda we are subject to in Ireland.

The UK is our biggest import partner.
1 UK 18,868 million 24
2 USA 16,368 million 21
3 France 10,500 million 13
4 Germany 6,890 million 9
5 China 4,424


https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-ti/irelandstradeingoods2017/toptradingpartners2017/

In terms of exports the UK is our second biggest.

Below is a list showcasing 15 of Ireland’s top trading partners in terms of Irish export sales. That is, countries that imported the most Irish shipments by dollar value during 2017. Also shown is each import country’s percentage of total Irish exports.

United States: US$36.1 billion (26.8% of total Irish exports)
United Kingdom: $18.3 billion (13.5%)
Belgium: $15 billion (11.1%)
Germany: $10.8 billion (8%)
Switzerland: $7 billion (5.2%)
Netherlands: $6.7 billion (4.9%)
France: $5.9 billion (4.3%)
China: $4.8 billion (3.6%)


http://www.worldstopexports.com/irelands-top-import-partners/

The UK is not our most important trading partner, for Exports it is behind the US and the EU27. for imports it is behind the EU27.

The EU single market is our most important trading partner, not the UK.

Call me Al

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

So, it turns out that Seaborne Freight was a front company for Ireland's Arklow Shipping which wrote to the DfT a fortnight ago pledging its continued support but has now reneged on its deal.

Could you please provide a context or background/proof for this claim so we can discuss? Unless you expect us to accept this at face value :-)

Imreoir2

alloywheel wrote: »

I showed you the link from our own cso, and I provided you with the figures. It may be down but it is still the country from whom we import the most. We also get the most tourists from the UK, by far.

In Overseas Visitors to the Republic of Ireland
Rank Country Percentage
1 United Kingdom 41.6%
2 United States & Canada 17.5%
3 Germany 6.0%
4 France 5.2%

Now that Leo has insulted them so much, I do not think we will get as many UK visitors this year. Maybe they will come from Luxemburg instead?

Are we talking about countries or most important trading partners? The UK does not manage its own trade arangements, that is the EU's job, if the UK regains that competance after Brexit, they will not be our most important trading partner, that will be the EU27, followed by the US. The UK will not even be top 2.

I have to ask, why is it so important to you that the UK be no. 1? Its not, you really need to accept that.

Imreoir2

downcow wrote: »

The arrogance of Irish people is incredible. "we are the EU" I think a reality check is called for.
I will take no pleasure in watching the fall from grace march/april. The EU does not need Ireland but it will feel a fairly big affect if it falls out with UK.

I reckon we will get an announcement at the 11th/12th hour which simply says we have reached an agreement. They won't tell us much else until the dust settles. We will eventually be given a fudge that protects trade between EU & UK. Ireland will have to smile and say we are happy with the deal and we'll all move on. Ireland, eu and uk will all be ok. Don't panic Mr Mannering

The arrogance of British people has been and continues to be astounding. The EU does not need the UK and will put its own interests, meaning the interests of its members ahead of the interests of the UK.

If the UK want's to survive Brexit without taking huge economic damage, then you will have to smile and say you are happy with the deal you are given. Otherwise you are welcome to your self inflicted poverty.

BonnieSituation

BonnieSituation wrote: »

The absolute gall of the ambassador to Spain:

"In a no deal scenario it will be up to the Spanish government to explain how they will deal with British citizens"

Mother of God. It's just one delusion after another.

He is correct. In a no deal scenario it won't be for the UK or EU to tell the Spanish government what to do with British immigrants.

There is a range of possible outcomes but it will be for the Spanish to decide.

Strazdas

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

So, it turns out that Seaborne Freight was a front company for Ireland's Arklow Shipping which wrote to the DfT a fortnight ago pledging its continued support but has now reneged on its deal.

Hang on a sec, Arklow / Seaborne would have been hired by the British government, not the British government being hired by Arklow / Seaborne.

Not sure how a firm offering a service to a government in return for payment can "renege" on a deal if it hasn't even provided the service or been paid yet. Sounds like they simply withdrew from the deal.

ThePanjandrum

Call me Al wrote: »

Could you please provide a context or background/proof for this claim so we can discuss? Unless you expect us to accept this at face value :-)

Sorry, missed off the link https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/02/09/no-deal-ferries-doubt-irish-firm-pulls-deal/

Starts out

"he Department for Transport has pulled the plug on a controversial contract to provide contingency ferries in the event of a no-deal Brexit after Seaborne Freight lost major financial backing from Ireland’s biggest shipping firm.

The Telegraph has learned that Transport Secretary Chris Grayling - who had faced criticism for awarding the contract to a start-up company with no ferries - has axed the deal amid suggestions the Irish government may have intervened.

The DfT had been a accused of a lack of transparency after it announced on Christmas Eve it had awarded £103 million worth of contracts to Brittany Ferries, DFDS and Seaborne Freight to provide roll-on-roll-off ferries.

Now The Telegraph can reveal that Mr Grayling awarded a £13 million slice of the contract because Seaborne Freight had the backing of Arklow Shipping, one of the Eu's biggest shipping firms, based in County Wicklow, south of Dublin.

A DfT source said Arklow, which operates more than 50 ferries, sent a letter two weeks ago guaranteeing they would be Seaborne Freight’s major equity partner but requesting that its backing was not made public for “commercially sensitive reasons” as it was in the process of acquiring new ferries. Then without warning on Friday, Arklow withdrew its support from Seaborne Freight, throwing the start-up into crisis."

alloywheel

Deleted User wrote: »

He is correct. In a no deal scenario it won't be for the UK or EU to tell the Spanish government what to do with British immigrants.

There is a range of possible outcomes but it will be for the Spanish to decide.

If each country in the EU is the EU (as Leo infamously said "I am the EU) then there will have to be consistency among the EU when it comes to dealing with British immigrants, for example. If the Spanish treat them one way, the other EU countries will have to treat them the same? What about the Rep. of Ireland - we have many British living here.

L1011

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Now The Telegraph can reveal that Mr Grayling awarded a £13 million slice of the contract because Seaborne Freight had the backing of Arklow Shipping, one of the Eu's biggest shipping firms, based in County Wicklow, south of Dublin.
"

"had the backing of" does not equal front company. I presume you have sufficient legal protection for basically making slanderous stuff up about a rather large company?

ThePanjandrum

Strazdas wrote: »

Hang on a sec, Arklow / Seaborne would have been hired by the British government, not the British government being hired by Arklow / Seaborne.

Not sure how a firm offering a service to a government in return for payment can "renege" on a deal if it hasn't even provided the service or been paid yet. Sounds like they simply withdrew from the deal.

If you have made assurances to win a contract then withdraw these assurances after being awarded the contract you have reneged on the deal.

renege
(also renegue)VERB

[NO OBJECT]
1Go back on a promise, undertaking, or contract.

‘the government had reneged on its election promises’

Hurrache

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Sorry, missed off the link https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/02/09/no-deal-ferries-doubt-irish-firm-pulls-deal/

Hang on, this is nothing what you claimed happened!

ThePanjandrum

L1011 wrote: »

"had the backing of" does not equal front company. I presume you have sufficient legal protection for basically making slanderous stuff up about a rather large company?

I'm an accountant. It was meant to be the major equity partner, it could not be replaced and it hid its involvement.

It was a front company.

A subsidiary or shell company used to shield another company from liability or scrutiny.

I've used front companies before to disguise involvement.