Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

What?

As far as I can ascertain there is a majority in the north for the backstop and no majority for anything in Westminster.

You are raising the gfa again from a one sided perspective and you know that is not credible and fairly offensive and we have been asked to avoid that nonsense by mods.
As for majorities you know there are nearly as many remainers opposed to the backstop as leavers ie a very great majority are not going to support the backstop. You will note that our elected representatives from across the UK give the gov their biggest defeat in history on this including over 90% of NI mps who voted.

Inquitus

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

What?

As far as I can ascertain there is a majority in the north for the backstop and no majority for anything in Westminster.

As well as having voted Remain in the first place!

Professor Moriarty

downcow wrote: »

You are raising the gfa again from a one sided perspective and you know that is not credible and fairly offensive and we have been asked to avoid that nonsense by mods.
As for majorities you know there are nearly as many remainers opposed to the backstop as leavers ie a very great majority are not going to support the backstop. You will note that our elected representatives from across the UK give the gov their biggest defeat in history on this including over 90% of NI mps who voted.

Do you have evidence for your assertion that as many Remainers oppose the backstop as Leavers?

woohoo!!!

What is the UK prepared to give so that there's no need for a backstop?

Anthracite

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

BTW, I haven't seen it mentioned here yet but the new Brexit Party with Nigel Farage as the leader has been approved by the Electoral Commission (which must have hurt such a pro-remain, supposedly independent organisation).
It has pledges of more than one million pounds and only started soliciting public donations yesterday. It claims to have more than 200 candidates ready to stand in any election it chooses to participate in.
That could devastate the current parliamentary arithmetic.

I presume Britain's deeply undemocratic FPTP system will suppress their voices as it has every other party outside of the big two.

Anthracite

downcow wrote: »

I am genuinely interested in an answer to this. It would help me understand where you guys are coming from.

It's difficult for us to answer this, as we don't come from a culture that has a long history of invading and colonising other cultures and appropriating their land. I'm sure if we did, we would realise that our past dreadful behaviour puts the onus on us not to do further damage to those countries and cultures we have abused in the past.

Capt'n Midnight

alloywheel wrote: »

If each country in the EU is the EU (as Leo infamously said "I am the EU) then there will have to be consistency among the EU when it comes to dealing with British immigrants, for example. If the Spanish treat them one way, the other EU countries will have to treat them the same? What about the Rep. of Ireland - we have many British living here.

As you well know the answer for Ireland is the CTA

BTW Ireland is one of the hardest places for third party nationals to get residency.



In the UK on the other hand despite May's insistence on an immigration target of 100,000 immigration from Asia alone exceeds that. Do you blame the PM or the Home Secretary ?

This is quite literally May promising to fix a problem that she keeps creating and can solved with a stroke of a pen at anytime.


The only thing she has kept steady on is her hatred of the European Human Rights Courts. Which means red lines for Norway or EFTA too.

First Up

woohoo!!! wrote:

What is the UK prepared to give so that there's no need for a backstop?

Bearing in mind that the EU already offered to make the backstop unecessary by agreeing to allow the UK into a Customs Union.

downcow

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Do you have evidence for your assertion that as many Remainers oppose the backstop as Leavers?

The WM vote

Capt'n Midnight

First Up wrote: »

May has committed to an open border. Is that commitment time limited?

May has promised to step down at the next election.

Which could be triggered by the DUP or ERG at anytime.

The SNP would love to run on Indyref2 and take those 12 Tory seats back.



I'm surprised that Labour haven't tried to buy off the DUP.
The permanent Customs Union keeps NI in the UK and keeps the Border Poll away.

Capt'n Midnight

downcow wrote: »

The WM vote

Was that a free vote ?

Or was it done in the context that nearly 60% of MP's in the UK are in safe seats and going against the party whip could mean deselection ?

VinLieger

downcow wrote: »

Simple analogy I know.
Ps thanks to the few people who did answer my question which confirmed what I thought. That you guys would never accept what you are asking UK to accept

Which is why we would never vote for irexit in the first place....

An Ciarraioch

downcow wrote: »

The WM vote

Where a three-line whip limited the number of Tory dissenters, and virtually all Labour supported the backstop.

downcow

Anthracite wrote: »

It's difficult for us to answer this, as we don't come from a culture that has a long history of invading and colonising other cultures and appropriating their land. I'm sure if we did, we would realise that our past dreadful behaviour puts the onus on us not to do further damage to those countries and cultures we have abused in the past.

Oh my goodness. I do soo want to answer that and remind you of all the people you drove out of your piece of this island to create probably the least diverse and church run monoculture country in Europe. But it’s not for this thread.
You almost got a rise out of me.
Of course I have no difficulty acknowledging and affirming the massive strides forward in recent years. Well done.

Strazdas

woohoo!!! wrote: »

What is the UK prepared to give so that there's no need for a backstop?

The EU keep asking what they intend replacing the backstop with and they keep talking about vague technological solutions.

alloywheel

Well said downcow. The British are probably the most tolerant people on Earth, and arguably the best out of all the mainland countries in Europe who also had colonies - all of them had. It took Britain to save Europe from bullies in WW1, WW2 and the cold war.

Inquitus

alloywheel wrote: »

Well said downcow. The British are probably the most tolerant people on Earth, and arguably the best out of all the mainland countries in Europe who also had colonies - all of them had. It took Britain to save Europe from bullies in WW1, WW2 and the cold war.

LOL, the British are about the most intolerant people in the EU, I spent 20 years living there. Nice attempt at trolling though.

First Up

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

May has promised to step down at the next election.

It isn't her personal promise. She is speaking for the British government

MikeSoys

hi not sure if this is the right place to post but i have cash in sterling over in uk trading brokerages ( lloyds bank) will i still be able to access my money after March if there is a hard exit does anyone know ..where i could get info re this thanks

prawnsambo

MikeSoys wrote: »

hi not sure if this is the right place to post but i have cash in sterling over in uk trading brokerages ( lloyds bank) will i still be able to access my money after March if there is a hard exit does anyone know ..where i could get info re this thanks

Lloyds should have informed you of what the situation is. Afaik, they have established an EU basis recently to take care of EU business, although not sure if that's for just insurance.

Inquitus

MikeSoys wrote: »

hi not sure if this is the right place to post but i have cash in sterling over in uk trading brokerages ( lloyds bank) will i still be able to access my money after March if there is a hard exit does anyone know ..where i could get info re this thanks

Speak to the bank, I would imagine access will be no issue but I would imagine it will cost more and take longer to transfer from the UK to an EU bank.

murphaph

I wouldn't bank on anything if it's a hard Brexit. Personally I would be surprised if there isn't panic buying of food possibly leading to a run on the banks as people scramble to convert their savings to some other currency.

A crash out Brexit completely changes the British economy. It's a seismic change we are talking about.

robindch

MikeSoys wrote: »

hi not sure if this is the right place to post but i have cash in sterling over in uk trading brokerages ( lloyds bank) will i still be able to access my money after March if there is a hard exit does anyone know ..where i could get info re this thanks

So far as I'm aware - and I'd like to be corrected here if not - most, and probably all, of the law governing financial transactions within the EU countries is essentially EU law.

If there is a no-deal exit, and in the absence of covering emergency legislation which there might be, then people transacting over the UK/EU border will be transacting without any legal basis. Means that if your money goes missing or takes six months to arrive or gets sent to the wrong person, well, best of luck trying to get it back again.

At the moment, nobody really believes that there will be a no-deal Brexit, however for negotiating purposes, Theresa May is continuing to keep that option on the table in order to scare remainer MP's into voting for her agreement and to scare the EU into compromising on its principles. She seems to be unaware of how her doing this has incinerated any respect that the EU and member governments had for her and her preposterous government.

Midlife

downcow wrote: »

Ps thanks to the few people who did answer my question which confirmed what I thought. That you guys would never accept what you are asking UK to accept

If it was that or a hard border, I thhink people would accept.

The problem is that for all the talk, no-one can come up with a third option.

Quin_Dub

Anthracite, downcow & Alloywheel will be taking a short break

Seth Brundle

JRM suggesting that the Irish government were behind the withdrawl of funding for Seabourne.
Doesn't seem to be too many people who agree with him though!
https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/1094213942946217984?s=19

prawnsambo

Midlife wrote: »

If it was that or a hard border, I thhink people would accept.

The problem is that for all the talk, no-one can come up with a third option.

According to polls taken in NI, people in NI would quite comfortably prefer the backstop as envisaged. So I'm not really convinced by this supposed dislike of it from that poster.

Strazdas

Seth Brundle wrote: »

JRM suggesting that the Irish government were behind the withdrawl of funding for Seabourne.
Doesn't seem to be too many people who agree with him though!
https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/1094213942946217984?s=19

Helen McEntee has already refuted this, she says the first anyone in government circles heard about it was this morning

https://twitter.com/HMcEntee/status/1094208023369633793

Infini

prawnsambo wrote: »

According to polls taken in NI, people in NI would quite comfortably prefer the backstop as envisaged. So I'm not really convinced by this supposed dislike of it from that poster.

As far as thing's go pretty much all the business and farming groups are in favor of the backstop purely so they can continue to stay in business and trade. Simple truth is that they need it to be able to realistically stay in buisness. Recently had relative's up shopping in Newry and apparently quite a few shops up there have shut down or closed up shop and it was very quiet there. Give's a feeling the place is going to be hard hit in the event of a crashout and that the effects are beginning to be felt already and I really hope the DUP get their comeuppance for their incompetent foolishness for wrecking peoples lives like that if there's a crashoiut.

All this chaos traces back to the conservative's and May's decision to leave the CU and SM and completely ignore the wishes of NI's populace purely because the DUP got into a position of interference and threw a fit with no proper logical backing or plan. The biggest and most laughable thing of all about the whole backstop is that its a last resort plan only meant to be used as a temporary measure while deals are sorted out it's not even meant to be a long term plan even yet it's targeted purely for ideological reasons not practical ones.

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2019/0208/1028467-brexit-tony-connelly/

Also a good report of the situation from Tony Connelly on the whole "special place in hell" remark btw just showing you the actual thinking behind Tusk as well. The Brit's are sleepwalking into this mess quite literally and this is meant to be a verbal kick in the arse to wake up and get together.

Also a side link in the same article to the NI situation as well from the BBC (Article is from Oct 18)

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-45864218

Capt'n Midnight

Inquitus wrote: »

LOL, the British are about the most intolerant people in the EU, I spent 20 years living there. Nice attempt at trolling though.

Nett Polish migration has dropped off to practically nothing now.

It's a combination of the growing Polish economy, the fall in Sterling and not feeling as welcome in the UK as before.


May should feel proud of her part in all of this.