Ireland v England 4:45 Aviva Stadium

Suspectman123

TheCitizen wrote: »

I agree. Was watching on TV and people were very late to take their seats. There was no intimidation from the crowd at all. The team had a bad day but the crowd were poor and the atmosphere was poor.

Totally agree, I was at the game and the atmosphere was shocking, Irish team started there pre match lap and barely a cheer and pretty much like that for the entire game
Not great

Burkie1203

Suspectman123 wrote: »

Totally agree, I was at the game and the atmosphere was shocking, Irish team started there pre match lap and barely a cheer and pretty much like that for the entire game
Not great

These games sometimes feel a bit like the Leinster pre xmas game in Europe. Very heavy on the social brigade. There was one camera shot just before the teams were in the tunnel and there must have been 20000 seats unoccupied.

Jimbob1977

It's a dose of realism.

You'd swear we would reach World Cup 2059 after celebrating our 400th consecutive victory.

That's the joy of sport. The upsets. Not always winning.

Newcastle United took down Man City.
Edinburgh could take down Munster.
Japan took down South Africa.

Burkie1203

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

It's a dose of realism.

You'd swear we would reach World Cup 2059 after celebrating our 400th consecutive victory.

That's the joy of sport. The upsets. Not always winning.

Newcastle United took down Man City.
Edinburgh could take down Munster.
Japan took down South Africa.

Think its more the manner of the performance more then the defeat. Our backrow and half backs in particular were pretty poor

Former Former

This is the reality of pro sport.

Businesses get these tickets because they will pay a lot more than ordinary punters. If that money stops coming in, then we're f**ked.

We can't have it every way.

Frank Castle

Another example that we just can't handle being beat up. We need to find a way to deal with that as England will not be the only team to identify that weakness.

Good dose of reality for the newer players and the fair weather fans. Hopefully that will reduce the number of them bandwagoning tickets and the supports club will stop the ballot crap!

Triboro

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

It's a dose of realism.

You'd swear we would reach World Cup 2059 after celebrating our 400th consecutive victory.

That's the joy of sport. The upsets. Not always winning.

Newcastle United took down Man City.
Edinburgh could take down Munster.
Japan took down South Africa.

Two out of three aint bad!

d.pop

Mokuba wrote: »

Behaviour of match going "fans" is embarrassing.

Arriving late and leaving early, wandering back way late after half time - and that's not even a tenth of it.

The amount of people running off for alcohol around me, not understanding the rules (which I can get over but if you don't know the rules you are hardly too interested in rugby to begin with), taking selfies, standing up for chats as the game was ongoing was disgraceful.

Would turn someone off going altogether. I'm not joking when I say that there wasn't a minute that went by when someone in the couple of rows in front of me or in my own row decided they wanted drink - which leads to everyone standing, and then they have to come back with their tray and hand it out.

Also seemed like nobody was particularly bothered about the result, as if the result didn't matter but at least they could say they were there. Happy faces and laughter abound as we were getting absolutely demolished on the pitch. A social occasion where the rugby itself was of very little consequence.

Never saw the like of it in any game of any sport I have ever been at, as someone who attends live games across different sports extremely regularly, a total and utter embarrassment.

Ticket distribution and cost this year was farcical.

This ^^^
Hit the nail on the head, I was there early as I was at a loose end so was crowd watching for a while and the 4 seats each side of me were empty until around 10 mins in to the game and the same people must have left 3-4 times during game for drinks. Very annoying.
People behind me had never been to a game or knew anything about irish rugby I’d say and I nearly cried with the explanations one of their party was trying to give to the others.
Terrible game, I had a feeling of foreboding from before kick off I couldn’t shake.
I know it was just one game but it really took me back to 20 years ok when Irish losses were the norm.
We just didn’t seem up for it, the English were and despite us maybe gifting them a few soft tries I had the feeling they would have scored tries regardless, they were by far the better team.
I thought a few of our key personnel were off form a bit and that worried me as the bench wasn’t able to make any impact despite what I had come to believe in the last 12 months.
Fair play to England, deserved the win and the English fans near me were very modest in victory.
Yesterday was my last Irish game until Japan in September, hope we take this as a good learning opportunity and move on.

BAM! uhavechlamydia

Just reading thru the thread...before the game... we'll win by 12 points or more.... after game...
we're awful...end of the world scenarios being spat out.

The reality is...we got spanked...be sure Joe and the backroom staff will go thru all the mistakes made during the game....and then will have a look at their own errors..
Not a nice feeling... but I'm sure we'll learn more from this beat down than any wins in this 6n

RasTa

Still annoyed at how bad we were.

Jump_In_Jack

Suspectman123 wrote: »

Ireland got bossed from minute 1 to 80 in every facet of the game
We got utterly dominated in the aerial battle, our back 3 all struggled with Keith earls especially poor
We lost the contact area time after time, something this team will learn to regret moving forward as we lack creativity here
I think joes game plan was snuffed out by Eddie big time

Some players were particularly poor
Best- totally anonymous, 1 carry in 65 minutes, I don’t care if he hits rucks, he’s not carrying the can

Henshaw- found out really either thru lack of fitness, game time or whatever, not a 15 imo

Earls- shocking read for try and got bullied physically

Sexton- lost control

Murray- did ok but again too much poor kicking

Bench did fine, cronin was good,nice break for try,joe again too conservative with bench
Kilcoyne did well, carried hard and SOB potentially played himself in team

Major wake up call and hopefully media start to dumb down the hype

i suspect you meant not carrying his (own) weight.

molloyjh

swiwi_ wrote: »

Do you think Schmidt's attention to detail and following a plan, often (rightly) lauded, is also his Achilles' heel? From a few of the articles I've read thru the years, the Monday video session can be withering and, I imagine, potentially humiliating in front of your fellow players. It doesn't exactly lend itself to changing tack during a match.

The NZ mantra is playing what's in front of you, which can also go awry, because there is no set plan, but it does allow players some leeway to change tactics during a match.

As I've seen elsewhere beating Ireland generally comes down to holding own at the breakdown, not giving away penalties and diffusing the boxkicks. Ireland strikes me as the least likely of the 6N sides to score a try from out of their own 22, but I think Schmidt does need to look at how Ireland might play if they go more than 1 score down with 10 to 15 minutes left on the clock.

Yeah, but we’ve been looking to play out of our 22 a lot more lately. We were doing it against NZ and again yesterday. But other than the loop play we don’t seem to have much invention so when the opposition win the gain line battle we spend a lot of time running up our own backsides. I’d love to know how many of England’s tackles were inside our half. When we struggled to get territory by playing the way we were we should have been looking at other options to get that. We didn’t.

I was very forgiving of the performance in Cardiff a couple of years ago because we were getting ourselves into the Welsh 22 but struggling to get scores as the Welsh had numbered up in the line and defended incredibly well. It can be hard to break good teams down from inside the 22 in those situations. But at least we were getting into the right areas of the park. We couldn’t even do that yesterday.

I’d hate to think we’re too prescribed tbh. There’s far too much leadership and experience in the playing and coaching teams for that to be a valid excuse IMO. But it was a 1 off game. We have always started slow and sometimes teams just have bad days. Add to that the target on our backs plus England owing us a beating after the last few years. Let’s see how the rest of the tournament plays out. For me the big test now is Wales. There are only 4 teams that can do to us what England did yesterday. NZ, SA, England and Wales. We need to be able manage that and the Welsh game will likely be the next time we’ll face that test. We need to make sure we have the answers. If we end up seeing the same thing then, I think that’s the point where we need to ask some tough questions.

Iompair

Terrible doom and gloom going on here. We played poorly on the day, forwards got smashed and the half backs looked lost and poor defense from the wingers. Ringrose and Aki had zero space to work in.

Still if you look at the last couple of years this is the aberration, not a return to form for this group of players, a very good team that can occasionally have a **** game.

At least that's my hope.

bilston

Fans leaving early and a lack of atmosphere is possibly indicative of a sense of entitlement after a year of unparalleled success. I said I feared we'd be ambushed before the game, although I admit I didn't expect us to be so comprehensively beaten.

I didn't understand some of the predictions before the game. Did the OP predict 31-12?

Thinking about it getting beaten yesterday may turn out to be the best thing that ever happened to us as supporters.

Whether that complacency exists or existed amongst the players I don't know, but it will re-focus minds even amongst them.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

No, playing with more depth against a team who had 48 or whatever dominant tackles against us is not an answer. We would have been absolutely demolished if they'd been able to catch us even further behind the line with any regularity.

Our kicking game wasn't too bad but it wasn't the answer either. It doesn't matter if you can get first phase in the opposition's half if they are just smashing you backwards each time you try to do anything with the ball from there.

We were physically beaten up. If we had been able to match their physicality a lot of the other pieces would have fallen into place a lot easier, and space for our half backs would be the very first thing we'd get out of it.

It's not nice to say about my own national team, but the character and mentality of the squad was shown up. Hopefully they'll use it as motivation to move themselves into a higher gear, rather than slide to defeats in places like Edinburgh and Cardiff like two years ago.

Yeah we lost the battte up front and so everything after that was always going to be a lot tougher. But I do think giving ourselves an extra metre or so could have helped. We were suffocated no matter where we went, be it to backs or forwards. The loop plays were all but swallowed up and maybe that extra second would have allowed our forwards use a bit more footwork and given us a slightly better chance of getting passes away when were going wide.

I think that had to happen in tandem with a smarter kicking game. Sextons chip in the middle of the park and Ringroses grubber down the left both worked for us. But we rarely looked to exploit the space directly behind the English defensive line the way Sexton did that time. Again, sitting that little bit deeper would have given us that but more time to see and execute that stuff. But there were also a number of times when the ball got to the wider channels and we looked to retain possession inside our own half (at times inside our own 22) rather than put the ball in behind England. Had we done that more, England may have needed to reconsider their line speed. But we just played into their hands again and again.

At 50 mins I saw no way that we could win that game. But when Itoje went off that changed. They only had 1 realistic line out option to our 3 at that stage. That was a clear area of advantage to us. We never looked to use it. And that seemed to me to be symptomatic of how we played. Either it was deer in headlights due to England’s superiority or a complete inability to change what we were doing to suit the situation.

snotboogie

Henshaw at 15 didn’t work at all. I thought it was an absolutely bizarre selection before the game and very unJoeSchmidt like.

almostover

molloyjh wrote: »

That was an incredibly frustrating game to watch. In fairness to England, they were genuinely excellent across the board. Their discipline was an issue in the first half, but they got that under control in the second. They were deserving winners on the day and I’d back them to do the Slam now off the back of that. Mako was superb and was without question the MOTM.

But from an Irish perspective I was so disappointed in just how, and I use this word very deliberately, stupid we were. It was clear inside the first quarter that we were playing so flat, and the English press was so good, that we weren’t going anywhere. There were 2 clear answers to that issue. Sit the offensive line a bit deeper and utilise a tactically kicking game to target the space behind the defensive line. We did the latter a few times and gained a lot from it. But we didn’t do the former at all, nor the latter enough.

The big slap in the face came when Itoje went off. We had a clear line to victory. They had 1 lock on the pitch and no real back row jumping option. We should have been targeting their line out by kicking to touch at every opportunity. Yet we didn’t. We kept doing the things that hadn’t been working all game. It was eerily reminiscent of Wales a couple of years ago.

Our pack held their own at set piece, but were utterly bullied off the park in the loose. Murray had a poor game, Sexton wasn’t much better and Henshaw at 15 was found out a couple of times. Hard to blame Robbie given his severe lack of experience. But overall there was a sense of Ireland looking to test things out in this game, none of which came off. We weren’t retaining possession the way we did last season, especially against NZ. Why move away from a platform that was so good? We seemed to be very keen to spin it wide when we had no real right to (cliche alert!) and never really imposed ourselves on the game outside of that middle period in the first half.

This is 1 game. It doesn’t define us in any way. But it does expose us to a degree and pose some very serious questions. There were very experienced players out there who, in the end, made no real difference to how we approached the game. That has got to be a concern. Ridiculous stuff like that line out at the end of the first half is exactly the kind of thing you’d never expect from this Irish side. Yet we were guilty of that stuff repeatedly over the course of the 80. We’ve a lot of work to do now. And I’m really, really worried about that trip to Cardiff. We could end this campaign in 3rd quite easily. If that gives us the kick up the backside for the RWC then I’d take it. But I’m not sure that’s the way we operate these days. We got some serious home town decisions today and never really came close to winning. That has to set alarm bells ringing to some degree.....

Good post and I must agree. 4 points down and England only had Lawes on the pitch for lineout. It was time to kick the corners and turn the screw that way. Poor game management from our 9 and 10.

kuang1

I'm glad people other than myself have commented on the crowd/atmosphere.

It's absolutely not THE reason we lost so comprehensively, but it certainly didn't help.
I was sitting beside a guy who was 76 years old and hadn't missed a home game in 30 years. Only got chatting at half time, but he said that "this is all wrong". When I asked what he meant, he nodded over both shoulders (we were in row and said "there aren't many rugby fans here today."
The English fans really made themselves heard fair play to them. Especially in the south stand.
Ok they had more to cheer about than we did, but my god...the lack of interest from "Irish fans" from the off was soul destroying.

Again not saying this was a huge factor, but the supporters club having what I assume was a significant reduction in ticket allocation (which led to the ballot farce) to facilitate the corporate demand was clear to witness yesterday.
Hopefully it won't take further defeats like that to rectify this scenario, but I fear it might.

By the by, I emailed the manager of the supporters club 3 times (yes 3; I have a lot of free time!) asking what the population of the supporters club is, and what was the ticket allocation. Never got a response. Nothing.

munsterlegend

Frank Castle wrote: »

Another example that we just can't handle being beat up. We need to find a way to deal with that as England will not be the only team to identify that weakness.

Good dose of reality for the newer players and the fair weather fans. Hopefully that will reduce the number of them bandwagoning tickets and the supports club will stop the ballot crap!

Totally agree. What do you think South Africa’s gameplan in a likely q/f would be? They are the masters of physicality. Good lessons learned today.

Will be interesting if England can maintain this form and Itoje is a huge loss.

Shefwedfan

Companies buy tickets for stupid money to give out free to customers

That stupid money pays for the stadium, provinces etc

All this talk of real fans, majority of these “real fans” never walked into a rugby match till the soccer team went s**t. None of them would buy a season ticket at any province. But come the ireland match they are suddenly up in arms because they can’t get a ticket

If all the real fans bought a season ticket at each of the provinces Irish rugby would be in a lot better situation

If you go to irfu they will point to FAI, I remember similar stories years ago about the Irish soccer games, not the real fans!! All corporate fans etc etc. now look at any game? They could give free tickets and people wouldn’t show up

kuang1

Yeah Molloy you're spot on.
Kruis went off for Lawes, and moments later Itoje went down.
Straight away I thought: ah, that's our way out of this, and we might actually win playing badly here. Lineout, lineout, lineout all the way.
But never happened. Very disappointing that for whatever reason it wasn't utilised. Should have seen grubber kicks aplenty from then on.

reg114

That defeat left me with the same feeling I had after the world Cup trouncing by Argentina. It was a shamefully poor performance. We knew England would come at us with pace, power and brute force intensity yet we had absolutely no answer, why Joe? England made us look very very average yesterday. I just don't understand why we are guilty of starting campaigns so slowly, we are guilty of it constantly. Eddie completely outclassed Joe yesterday no question. For me the championship ambitions are over at this stage and I'd be using the remaining games to blood players ahead of the world Cup. It's a massive reality check.

UnknownSpecies

Tough watching being beaten so comprehensively. As has already been mentioned, we needed to change tack. We didn't play the game that unfolded, we played the game we expected to unfold.

Silver lining of this defeat is we know plan A isn't unstoppable and we need a way of identifying when it needs to be changed up during a game. Much better to see this happen now than in a world cup. Worst thing would have been to win plan A all the way to Japan and be caught out there.

shootermacg

Good to get these wake-up calls, I'm happier with this happening now rather than against SA in the WC. No matter how bad this 6N goes, it'll mean nothing when we take the field against SA.

A match like this every so often is actually a great thing (in hindsight) and drives improvement. Losing this game will make the tournament a big test for Ireland because you know Wales and Scotland will fancy a cut. This will hopefully have a forging effect on the team and we might even come out of it a better team.

Our defence was good and England were held out for the most part except for some individual errors. Our main mistake was to play in the wrong areas, the exit strategy was poor. There was also plenty of space in behind to be exploited by a well placed kick in attack, but we just trucked it up all day.

We do seem to start the 6N slow and under cooked, but I expect things will improve in the subsequent games.

I expect Ireland to learn for this and push on, might even win it, if someone can take a game off England.

thomond2006

Look, can we all agree the match got called off?

I wouldn't put the lack of atmosphere down to the allocation of tickets. To me, it didn't seem any different to how it has been the last few years. During that time, there have been matches with amazing atmospheres - notably England 2017 and the All Black's last year.

The problem yesterday was simply that Ireland started poorly and stayed that way.

LuckyLloyd

How many turnovers did we force at the breakdown?

kuang1

Basil3 wrote: »

I wouldn't put the lack of atmosphere down to the allocation of tickets. To me, it didn't seem any different to how it has been the last few years. During that time, there have been matches with amazing atmospheres - notably England 2017 and the All Black's last year.

The problem yesterday was simply that Ireland started poorly and stayed that way.

Of course it's a symbiotic relationship between crowd and team.
But I think it's wrong to expect the team to be the initiators of that relationship.
To contrast yesterday in the Aviva to the NZ game in November... I mean it's chalk and cheese. Very different atmospheres but both against top class opposition.
Everybody in their seats well before kick off in November. Yesterday people were milling in around me 12/15 minutes after kick off. Joke.

I feel like I need to reiterate this: none of the above was the soul reason for the team's performance yesterday.
Personally I'd forgive the guys for a bad day out. They were due one even.
But a home game where the supporters don't deliver, and we didn't deliver yesterday, is never ok. And should be called out.

TheCitizen

Burkie1203 wrote: »

These games sometimes feel a bit like the Leinster pre xmas game in Europe. Very heavy on the social brigade. There was one camera shot just before the teams were in the tunnel and there must have been 20000 seats unoccupied.

I thought it very strange, obviously they were drinking and eating. They can drink and eat anytime. The commentator never said anything about it either.

I go to Lansdowne Road for soccer games but I would have loved to be there yesterday, I didn’t miss much as regards the atmosphere by the looks of it. Too many tickets ended up in the wrong hands via corporate connections. It’s the same for lots of things, you’d get people with tickets for a U2 concert who’ll tell you they don’t like U2 but they still go just because they can brag they got a ticket. Some people are pathetic.

Shane732

Basil3 wrote: »

I wouldn't put the lack of atmosphere down to the allocation of tickets. To me, it didn't seem any different to how it has been the last few years. During that time, there have been matches with amazing atmospheres - notably England 2017 and the All Black's last year.

The problem yesterday was simply that Ireland started poorly and stayed that way.

The atmosphere at the All Blacks match was a different level to that game. I thought there would be a similar level of atmosphere. Obviously the early try and that sinking feeling of oh s**t we're in trouble here didn't lend itself to the same atmosphere.

benjy1000

Very disappointing performance.
Kearney should have been starting.
Smith needs to go back to the drawing board and change things up , lose against Scotland and he will have to go

TheCitizen

Shane732 wrote: »

The atmosphere at the All Blacks match was a different level to that game. I thought there would be a similar level of atmosphere. Obviously the early try and that sinking feeling of oh s**t we're in trouble here didn't lend itself to the same atmosphere.

I think that was the point. The atmosphere v All Blacks was completely different, why was that? The crowd yesterday were complacent and thought Ireland would win easy. The team were complacent as well perhaps. There’s no excuse for people not being in their seats before kick off

TheCitizen

benjy1000 wrote: »

Very disappointing performance.
Kearney should have been starting.
Smith needs to go back to the drawing board and change things up , lose against Scotland and he will have to go

Yep “Smith” should be worried this morning, whoever Smith is. LOL

Dubinusa

Our attack is blunt. We do have game changers in the backline and we must get the ball to them.
When we are being bossed and shut down and can't make inroads, we must look to the lads who are able to create.
Surely, Ringrose could have been used as 1st receiver and Stockdale too. Larmour did not get a sniff and we never looked to get these lads onto the ball.
The only trouble England had was Ringrose. He looked the only lad who could beat the defensive line and make something happen.
That said, what's troubling is our inability to change up.
Box kicking was not the answer and England where well prepared for that.
Anytime we grubber in behind, we had them in odds and ends. This actually was our best ploy!
Obviously, when the pack struggles, the team struggles.
But, NZ probably would have snuck a win yesterday by getting the ball to the lads that can turn a match upside down.
I think getting Larmour and Stockdale more ball would have gotten us momentum.
Oh well!

Faugheen

"benjy1000 wrote: »

lose against Scotland and he will have to go

BINGO!

Dravokivich

benjy1000 wrote: »

Very disappointing performance.
Kearney should have been starting.
Smith needs to go back to the drawing board and change things up , lose against Scotland and he will have to go

He's finished in 8 months. This was one major loss for the team in a relatively long time. It's also not his fault they kept messing up their passing.

jr86

bilston wrote: »

I didn't understand some of the predictions before the game. Did the OP predict 31-12?

I think the attitude to England in general by many on the forum before the tournament and over the past year has puzzled me tbh

In another thread someone pointed out England were millimetres (literally!) from beating NZ themselves in the Autumn after many posters were citing our own Autumn win (not without our own lucky bounce or two) as a major reason for being such favourites, however there were responses citing the conditions being awful in the England game, NZ being under-cooked and not at full pelt, anything to take any credit away from England

There has been talk of Jones being a complete busted flush (despite having won as many Grand Slams as Joe Schmidt and having a hugely impressive winning %), that barely any of their players would get in the Irish side (despite many of their players being key to the Lions drawn series in 2017) and that their 2018 season - missing a few key players at times - was a sure fire sign of things to come for the world cup (despite it being eerily similar to Ireland's 2016 season, and look how we bounced back)

I saw a post about England being not a tournament team, despite actually winning more than Ireland since Jones took over

This may be no harm to check supporter's expectations. We were never miles better than England, we never will be and in reality there is so little between the sides, at present. England should always be fully respected as a top side just like ourselves. From what I can see most of their fans and media appear far more grounded however

awec

The intercept was an absolute cracker from Slade.

snotboogie

swiwi_ wrote: »

Very nice post Molloy. Not quite up there with the all the absolutely enthralling posts on Zebo

Ya, imagine fans having the temerity to suggest we pick the best Irish fullback, what a useless discussion point.

Tommybojangles

I'm relieved to see I wasn't alone in my feelings about the crowd. People coming back with trays of Drink with 39.10 on the clock and England pummelling our line a particular low point. And the guy who waited until the teams came back on the pitch for the second half to stroll to the bar because "everyone will be coming back now" delighted with himself for beating the system

errlloyd

I think England picked a good back three to negate the kicking game. All of May, Daly and Norwell are lightening fast. That said, the trend in rugby now is the little crossfields, grubbers and dinks, they have never been Sextons main strength (he can do them, but they're not the best part of his game).

jr86

And the "pints" (375 mil at best) about €5.50/6 and a quarter of it spilled when they get back to their seat

stephen_n

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah, but we’ve been looking to play out of our 22 a lot more lately. We were doing it against NZ and again yesterday. But other than the loop play we don’t seem to have much invention so when the opposition win the gain line battle we spend a lot of time running up our own backsides. I’d love to know how many of England’s tackles were inside our half. When we struggled to get territory by playing the way we were we should have been looking at other options to get that. We didn’t.

I was very forgiving of the performance in Cardiff a couple of years ago because we were getting ourselves into the Welsh 22 but struggling to get scores as the Welsh had numbered up in the line and defended incredibly well. It can be hard to break good teams down from inside the 22 in those situations. But at least we were getting into the right areas of the park. We couldn’t even do that yesterday.

I’d hate to think we’re too prescribed tbh. There’s far too much leadership and experience in the playing and coaching teams for that to be a valid excuse IMO. But it was a 1 off game. We have always started slow and sometimes teams just have bad days. Add to that the target on our backs plus England owing us a beating after the last few years. Let’s see how the rest of the tournament plays out. For me the big test now is Wales. There are only 4 teams that can do to us what England did yesterday. NZ, SA, England and Wales. We need to be able manage that and the Welsh game will likely be the next time we’ll face that test. We need to make sure we have the answers. If we end up seeing the same thing then, I think that’s the point where we need to ask some tough questions.

And yet that leadership wasn’t showing, we looked completely in awe of the English physicality and players like Sexton and Best who you need to step up there went awol. Johhny at times in the second half seemed shell shocked. For the life of me I can’t understand how we don’t attack the soft Centre of their rucks. They were committing low numbers to rucks all day but we didn’t attack them there. This to me does indicate over prescribed methods. We should be able to adapt to that and start attacking through rucks with numbers. A half break and offload from that position would have put us completely behind their defensive line. We were too busy setting up pods right in front of their on rushing defence. Lambs to slaughter stuff, England made 58 dominant tackles, compared to Ireland’s 8. That’s a friggtening and very telling stat.

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah we lost the battte up front and so everything after that was always going to be a lot tougher. But I do think giving ourselves an extra metre or so could have helped. We were suffocated no matter where we went, be it to backs or forwards. The loop plays were all but swallowed up and maybe that extra second would have allowed our forwards use a bit more footwork and given us a slightly better chance of getting passes away when were going wide.

I think that had to happen in tandem with a smarter kicking game. Sextons chip in the middle of the park and Ringroses grubber down the left both worked for us. But we rarely looked to exploit the space directly behind the English defensive line the way Sexton did that time. Again, sitting that little bit deeper would have given us that but more time to see and execute that stuff. But there were also a number of times when the ball got to the wider channels and we looked to retain possession inside our own half (at times inside our own 22) rather than put the ball in behind England. Had we done that more, England may have needed to reconsider their line speed. But we just played into their hands again and again.

At 50 mins I saw no way that we could win that game. But when Itoje went off that changed. They only had 1 realistic line out option to our 3 at that stage. That was a clear area of advantage to us. We never looked to use it. And that seemed to me to be symptomatic of how we played. Either it was deer in headlights due to England’s superiority or a complete inability to change what we were doing to suit the situation.

Sitting deeper would have had us marching backwards. It would have been suicidal. There's a reason the "earn the right" cliche exists. England were completely solid in their set piece (and more kicking means more set pieces). Extremely aggressive and organised in every phase of defense. It would have been far worse if we had sat deeper and tried to kick our way into that game. The pack and the back 3 were a disaster and you can't kick your way into a game without either. Usually such a strength of ours as well, extremely disappointing.

Now they need to sort that against Scotland. This team has allowed momentum to ruin them before (2017 for example). Big focus on Best and Easterby now. Murray and the pack need to radically improve.

Not sure they need to make any selection changes (apart from full back obviously), there's options there like SOB or Henderson but ultimately the guys who are starting all have far more in the tank and are probably extremely motivated to show it now after that capitulation.

munsterlegend

Tommybojangles wrote: »

I'm relieved to see I wasn't alone in my feelings about the crowd. People coming back with trays of Drink with 39.10 on the clock and England pummelling our line a particular low point. And the guy who waited until the teams came back on the pitch for the second half to stroll to the bar because "everyone will be coming back now" delighted with himself for beating the system

I can’t understand lads drinking throughout the game. You spend most of the match thinking about going to the toilet.

clevtrev

Tommybojangles wrote: »

I'm relieved to see I wasn't alone in my feelings about the crowd. People coming back with trays of Drink with 39.10 on the clock and England pummelling our line a particular low point. And the guy who waited until the teams came back on the pitch for the second half to stroll to the bar because "everyone will be coming back now" delighted with himself for beating the system

I got what I thought were good seats through the supporters club but they were beside the aisle and for the first 10 minutes of each half I had to watch the match on the big screen as hoards of people walked up and down. The IRFU could easily prevent people from bringing the drink to their seats similar to the GAA policy in Croke Park but this will never happen as the loss of revenue would be huge.

TheCitizen

jr86 wrote: »

And the "pints" (375 mil at best) about €5.50/6 and a quarter of it spilled when they get back to their seat

There should be no drink allowed going to your seat. Can people not wait for a couple of hours to get a pint.

bilston

TheCitizen wrote: »

There should be no drink allowed going to your seat. Can people not wait for a couple of hours to get a pint.

People just need to go to the bar at the appropriate time. I enjoy having a beer while watching the game. I just make sure I get two beers before kick off and that way I'll not need to go back to the bar.

Keeping the bladder in check as we approach half time is your biggest challenge.

rm75

almostover wrote: »

Think we learned a lot today. Kearney still our best FB. Henderson critical in the 2nd row, his physicality is crucial. JDF great workhorse but Leavy more impactful. Hopefully come WC time we look back at this game saying this was the lesson that we needed. On to Scotland, have to put in a performance and beat them. They'll fancy a crack off us at home.

No offense but this is expert in hindsight stuff. Our lineout was poor against Argentina so big Dev came back in and the same two second rows as yesterday were superb against NZ. They had an off day, it happens, doesnt make them bad players. Roux isnt of the same standard as Henderson on the bench but being honest the bench wasnt the difference yesterday.

6N is incredibly competitive and England will always be a tough game. People are overeacting. It was a poor performance from Ireland and england played very well.

rm75

TheCitizen wrote: »

There should be no drink allowed going to your seat. Can people not wait for a couple of hours to get a pint.

Disagree,ultimately fans are they're to be entertained. You go to sports games in the US and you have lads coming to your seat selling beers.

This "real fan" snobbery you get from time to time irritates me, people are entitled to have a few beers if they wish as long as they are not making a nuisance of themselves.