Ireland v England 4:45 Aviva Stadium

1eg0a3xv7b82of

Yesterday was all about the English forwards they completely destroyed the Irish boys. They played with a chip on their shoulder. Would love to know what Jones and his management team said to them. Itoge and Farrell especially played like they wanted to put Ryan/toner and Sexton back in their places. Overall England played like it was personal
This loss is not so bad as Ireland are a very good team but so are England and yesterday was pay back for the last 2 years

troyzer

Happy4all wrote: »

At this stage I just want to see the next game come along, and hopefully a restoration of pride.

Absolutely. Even I'm desperate to get another chance to bury them. That's such a powerful motivator and it's why England showed up so well.

Makes you worried for the world cup because we'll be playing either South Africa (who we most recently battered) or New Zealand (who we completely outclassed last time around).

mistearious

yesterday summed up

https://twitter.com/roathandrew/status/1091757737799749633

jr86

troyzer wrote: »

New Zealand (who we completely outclassed last time around).

Ah now. A famous win and an outstanding performance but you're probably talking a bizarre knock on by Kieran read being the ultimate difference. A far cry from outclassed

Jump_In_Jack

Faugheen wrote: »

I made the exact same argument when discussing Conway/Lowe and told I was wrong.

As I've asked, which is it?

There will be occasions in rugby where the ball will be kicked high into the sky.
When it comes down onto the field of play the players are allowed to "contest for the catch".

There are three simple principles to safely contesting a high ball:
1) A player must be placed in a realistic position to catch the ball
Part of being in a realistic position to catch the ball is being able to get above other constestants.

2) A player must make a genuine attempt to catch the ball
Part of making a genuine attempt is being aware of where the ball is landing by actually looking towards the dropping ball as it approaches towards the contestants.

3) A player must be mindful not to collide forcefully with other players that are in the air also contesting for the ball
Part of being mindful is looking around you before jumping to make sure any potential collision is minimised.


By following these simple guiding principles the players are able to navigate this tricky aspect of the game of rugby.

In order to avoid being a danger to a player that is contesting a high ball the players that are not contesting the high ball by the above criteria are not allowed to interfere with the players that are contesting the high ball.

If a player does not meet the criteria above but makes contact with a player that is off the ground contesting a high ball by the criteria above it will be penalised as foul play.
As a result of that foul play a penalty is awarded if the player that is contesting the ball by the criteria above lands safely, a yellow card is awarded if they land on their back, and if they land on their shoulders, neck or head a red card is awarded.

troyzer

jr86 wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

New Zealand (who we completely outclassed last time around).

Ah now. A famous win and an outstanding performance but you're probably talking a bizarre knock on by Kieran read being the ultimate difference. A far cry from outclassed

They were beaten in every single aspect of the game. They were outclassed.

Ireland were outclassed yesterday but were it not for an unfortunate bobble by Stockdale and a poor jump by Earls, Ireland would have won. Theoretically anyway.

It's test rugby, the margins are always fine.

tritriagain

troyzer wrote: »

They were beaten in every single aspect of the game. They were outclassed.

Ireland were outclassed yesterday but were it not for an unfortunate bobble by Stockdale and a poor jump by Earls, Ireland would have won. Theoretically anyway.

It's test rugby, the margins are always fine.

And if I'd picked different numbers in the lotto past night i would have won. No shame in losing. That's sport. Would be worried though that they are very one dimensional and couldn't adapt their game to suit.

troyzer

tritriagain wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

They were beaten in every single aspect of the game. They were outclassed.

Ireland were outclassed yesterday but were it not for an unfortunate bobble by Stockdale and a poor jump by Earls, Ireland would have won. Theoretically anyway.

It's test rugby, the margins are always fine.

And if I'd picked different numbers in the lotto past night i would have won. No shame in losing. That's sport. Would be worried though that they are very one dimensional and couldn't adapt their game to suit.

I agree with you. I was countering the earlier point on Read's near intercept. If my auntie had balls she'd be my uncle.

stephen_n

irishbucsfan wrote: »

What Itoje did was never a red card. That's just sour grapes.

Itoje’s one probably would have been a yellow had Curry not already been in the bin. It was dangerous play, leading with a knee when he wasn’t contesting the ball, as he hadn’t got a bulls notion where it was. It was definitely a penalty and probably warranted a yellow, but was 50/50 at that as to how a ref would interpret it. As unfortunately are a lot of contests for kicks these days.

Richie_Rich89

You can't blame Itoje considering the way the laws are applied. If he had his eyes on the ball and took out Earls's legs then he could get a red card. The only way to make sure he doesn't do that is to watch Earls rather than the ball, and judge/guess where the ball is based on where Earls is.

The law favours the player who happens to be higher when they come together and if it wasn't for the size disparity Earls could have caused Itoje to fall dangerously and been culpable

mfceiling

troyzer wrote: »

They were beaten in every single aspect of the game. They were outclassed.

Ireland were outclassed yesterday but were it not for an unfortunate bobble by Stockdale and a poor jump by Earls, Ireland would have won. Theoretically anyway.

It's test rugby, the margins are always fine.

Just on the Stockdale one. There were 3 English players on him and not 1 Irish player to be seen. Think Matt Williams showed afterwards that Henshaw was jogging towards it...Again no slight on Robbie but there was zero support for Stockdale in defence.

BAM! uhavechlamydia

troyzer wrote: »

They were beaten in every single aspect of the game. They were outclassed.

Ireland were outclassed yesterday but were it not for an unfortunate bobble by Stockdale and a poor jump by Earls, Ireland would have won. Theoretically anyway.

It's test rugby, the margins are always fine.

I'm sure the irony of this post is lost on you

tanko

mfceiling wrote: »

Just on the Stockdale one. There were 3 English players on him and not 1 Irish player to be seen. Think Matt Williams showed afterwards that Henshaw was jogging towards it...Again no slight on Robbie but there was zero support for Stockdale in defence.

Does anyone think that Stockdale was tackled without the ball??
He was trying to catch it but never had it under control.
The English player tackled him and didnt go for the ball.

GreeBo

tanko wrote: »

Does anyone think that Stockdale was tackled without the ball??
He was trying to catch it but never had it under control.
The English player tackled him and didnt go for the ball.

Happens all the time with man and ball.

The error wasn't by stockdale, it was the other 14 players who were nowhere to be seen.

errlloyd

Ah he's in possession there. Perfectly acceptable tackle.

He's about to give away a 5m scrum anyway. So we're in a bind regardless.

ionadnapokot

yerrahbah wrote: »

Based on his Scarlets performance I think it was the right call not to start Kearney yesterday

Hindsight is great, but starting a guy who hasn't played much lately and in a position he hasn't played in in years was a mistake

Personally I'd have started Addison, Larmour, Conway or possible Carbery at FB

Apart from his mistake for the try, I thought Earls did ok.

Stockdale was desperately unlucky with the try he conceded, it was a really cruel bounce and was just about to gather the ball when he was tackled.

Aki and Ringrose did well, Ringrose is such a classy player

Sexton looked Rusty, First game for him in a while so maybe not totally unexpected. He'll be much better against the Scots

Murray was poor enough.

James Ryan and Furlong probably the best of the forwards

Apart from FB and injuries I'm not sure we will see many changes for next week

I know the assistant referee was looking straight at it, but are people sure Healy grounded that try?

I didn't see a definitive angle

Agree with all of that.
I’m fairly sure Healy did ground it.

Sexton is way off the pace. In fact I think he has been poor in many of the games this season. The only games I thought he looked like last years player was against Connacht at the end of September and the NZ game.

Murray is not yet up to last years standard.
Confident that this performance will focus their minds and they will deliver the necessary v Scotland.
They both need games.

Earls...ok. He did ok. Lack of Games is not an issue here. My preference would be a change at 14 & 15. Conway and Addison.
And 8. Poor CJ. Conan VdF POM. SOB for France.
Hope Toner is ok?
Cronin deserves a start

The Rape of Lucretia

Was Stockdale not tackled without the ball for England's second try ?
Penalty to Ireland.

Burkie1203

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Was Stockdale not tackled without the ball for England's second try ?
Penalty to Ireland.

Nope he was attempting to play the ball.

The Rape of Lucretia

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Nope he was attempting to play the ball.

Can you tackle a player as he tries to field a kick since he is attempting to play the ball ?

Burkie1203

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Can you tackle a player as he tries to field a kick since he is attempting to play the ball ?

If he isnt in the air then yes

FrancieBrady

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Can you tackle a player as he tries to field a kick since he is attempting to play the ball ?

Would have taken a very strong home town ref to deny that score. Stockdale got caught out by the hop...happens.

Former Former

tanko wrote: »

Does anyone think that Stockdale was tackled without the ball??
He was trying to catch it but never had it under control.
The English player tackled him and didnt go for the ball.

If he's juggling the ball like that he's deemed to be in possession, tackle was perfectly legal.

Shefwedfan

We win one game, fans lose it and think we will hammer every other team in World
We lose one game, team is s**t, coach should leave, fans shouldn’t be allowed go to games and if they do by Christ they can’t enjoy a pint at it

I tell you, it’s never the middle with us Irish

No team was going to unbeaten for the whole of 2019, best to get the loss out of the way now and crack on

If anything it gives the players an almighty kick up the rear end...letting the English get a bonus point win in Ireland will massively hurt the team

The Rape of Lucretia

Burkie1203 wrote: »

If he isnt in the air then yes

Like an American football blocker, so that one of your own team mates close on your heals can then get a clean catch after you have taken out the opposition player ? We dont tend to see that too often.

The Rape of Lucretia

Former Former wrote: »

If he's juggling the ball like that he's deemed to be in possession, tackle was perfectly legal.

Is that your view or the explicit official interpretation ?

Shefwedfan

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Was Stockdale not tackled without the ball for England's second try ?
Penalty to Ireland.

He had control of the ball, then when the tackle came in then it knocked it out of his hands


I said the exact same thing and then watched the replay.....

The Rape of Lucretia

Shefwedfan wrote: »

He had control of the ball, then when the tackle came in then it knocked it out of his hands


I said the exact same thing and then watched the replay.....

He certainly never had control of it. He touches it a couple of times, but is never holding it.

The Lost Sheep

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

He certainly never had control of it. He touches it a couple of times, but is never holding it.

you dont have to hold the ball to be deemed as in possession

tanko

Just saw it again on TV3 there now, yeah Stockdale had more control of the ball than i first thought, fair tackle so.

Pussyhands

Sexton had an absolute stinker yesterday. I think Carbery might end up getting more minutes than people think this 6 Nations. Sexton is 34 in a few months and there's serious signs of deterioration.

Even Dan Carter was well off it at 34. Wouldn't even surprise me if Sexton gets a muscle injury and is forced out of the team tbh.

Best is 36 and disappears in the 2nd half of games. His rucking and poaching is non existent nowadays too.

Shefwedfan

Pussyhands wrote: »

Sexton had an absolute stinker yesterday. I think Carbery might end up getting more minutes than people think this 6 Nations. Sexton is 34 in a few months and there's serious signs of deterioration.

Even Dan Carter was well off it at 34. Wouldn't even surprise me if Sexton gets a muscle injury and is forced out of the team tbh.

Best is 36 and disappears in the 2nd half of games. His rucking and poaching is non existent nowadays too.

Do we want to name all the players who had a stinker yesterday and post about the alternatives?


Please explain the serious signs of deteriortion?

Shefwedfan

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

He certainly never had control of it. He touches it a couple of times, but is never holding it.

We agree to disagree

Pussyhands

I can't believe Joe is playing Henshaw at 15. Henshaw was talked about years ago as O'Driscolls heir and he had a great step and pace. Then Joe decided to turn him into Jamie Roberts and made him a battering ram. He ruined him.

It's hard to know who'll be dropped from the centre next week. Henshaw maybe isn't fully fit but I'm thinking his first choice might be Henshaw and Ringrose.

Very little attacking creativity yesterday. Have seen nothing really in attack from Ringrose for Ireland, but that's probably down to Joe.

troyzer

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Pussyhands wrote: »

Sexton had an absolute stinker yesterday. I think Carbery might end up getting more minutes than people think this 6 Nations. Sexton is 34 in a few months and there's serious signs of deterioration.

Even Dan Carter was well off it at 34. Wouldn't even surprise me if Sexton gets a muscle injury and is forced out of the team tbh.

Best is 36 and disappears in the 2nd half of games. His rucking and poaching is non existent nowadays too.

Do we want to name all the players who had a stinker yesterday and post about the alternatives?


Please explain the serious signs of deteriortion?

Here's my alternate XV which compiles what every knee jerker is thinking:

McGrath
Herring
Moore
D. Ryan
DOC (sure he's only retired a few months)
Wycherley
Penny (class in U20s)
Nordi
Stringer (barely retired again)
Carbery
Adam Byrne
Darcy (looked good in the legends game)
BOD (sun's out, gun's out)
Andrew Conway
Carbery (because he's super duper, he can play two positions)

Pussyhands

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Do we want to name all the players who had a stinker yesterday and post about the alternatives?


Please explain the serious signs of deteriortion?

He couldn't even get garryowens away yesterday without them getting blocked.

He threw a blind pass for the intercept.

Can't remember the last time he broke a line. He used to be great for going on the outside and handing off the tackler and then popping it off or going over for the try.

How many really top class out halfs can you remember that were still absolutely incredible at 33?

Perifect

Pussyhands wrote: »

Sexton had an absolute stinker yesterday. I think Carbery might end up getting more minutes than people think this 6 Nations. Sexton is 34 in a few months and there's serious signs of deterioration.

Even Dan Carter was well off it at 34. Wouldn't even surprise me if Sexton gets a muscle injury and is forced out of the team tbh.

Best is 36 and disappears in the 2nd half of games. His rucking and poaching is non existent nowadays too.

Obviously, we have to hope you're wrong but it could turn out that 2018 is when this team peaked. We got the grand slam and beat New Zealand which was amazing but that could be it. I think Sexton has a bit more in him. Best no.

troyzer

Pussyhands wrote: »

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Do we want to name all the players who had a stinker yesterday and post about the alternatives?


Please explain the serious signs of deteriortion?

He couldn't even get garryowens away yesterday without them getting blocked.

He threw a blind pass for the intercept.

Can't remember the last time he broke a line. He used to be great for going on the outside and handing off the tackler and then popping it off or going over for the try.

How many really top class out halfs can you remember that were still absolutely incredible at 33?

Johnny Sexton. Won World Player of the Year at 33. So did Dan Carter.

Didn't you know?

Clegg

troyzer wrote: »

Pussyhands wrote: »

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Do we want to name all the players who had a stinker yesterday and post about the alternatives?


Please explain the serious signs of deteriortion?

He couldn't even get garryowens away yesterday without them getting blocked.

He threw a blind pass for the intercept.

Can't remember the last time he broke a line. He used to be great for going on the outside and handing off the tackler and then popping it off or going over for the try.

How many really top class out halfs can you remember that were still absolutely incredible at 33?

Johnny Sexton. Won World Player of the Year at 33. So did Dan Carter.

Didn't you know?

Highly embarrassing post from the boy Pussyhands.

Yamanoto

Puzzled me why we persisted with the box kick when:

a) we got zero return from it, England lapped it up

b) Murray's radar was clearly a bit askew most of the afternoon

troyzer

Yamanoto wrote: »

Puzzled me why we persisted with the box kick when a) we got zero return from it, England lapped it up and b) Murray's radar was clearly a bit askew.

Yeah, when they were down to one lineout jumper we really should have been trying to hoof it up the field and contested their lineout.

Perifect

Yamanoto wrote: »

Puzzled me why we persisted with the box kick when:

a) we got zero return from it, England lapped it up

b) Murray's radar was clearly a bit askew most of the afternoon

It's what we've been doing the whole time with Joe in charge? We have no plan b?

Shefwedfan

Pussyhands wrote: »

He couldn't even get garryowens away yesterday without them getting blocked.

He threw a blind pass for the intercept.

Can't remember the last time he broke a line. He used to be great for going on the outside and handing off the tackler and then popping it off or going over for the try.

How many really top class out halfs can you remember that were still absolutely incredible at 33?

Well Sexton won player of the year

Wilkonson wasn’t half bad
Carter of course

All off top of head, sure I could find plenty more

Shefwedfan

troyzer wrote: »

Here's my alternate XV which compiles what every knee jerker is thinking:

McGrath
Herring
Moore
D. Ryan
DOC (sure he's only retired a few months)
Wycherley
Penny (class in U20s)
Nordi
Stringer (barely retired again)
Carbery
Adam Byrne
Darcy (looked good in the legends game)
BOD (sun's out, gun's out)
Andrew Conway
Carbery (because he's super duper, he can play two positions)

Personally I would have brought ROG in at 10, he looked good on tv, I’m sure he could garryowen the crap out of it.... Sexton seemingly can’t anymore

troyzer

Shefwedfan wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Here's my alternate XV which compiles what every knee jerker is thinking:

McGrath
Herring
Moore
D. Ryan
DOC (sure he's only retired a few months)
Wycherley
Penny (class in U20s)
Nordi
Stringer (barely retired again)
Carbery
Adam Byrne
Darcy (looked good in the legends game)
BOD (sun's out, gun's out)
Andrew Conway
Carbery (because he's super duper, he can play two positions)

Personally I would have brought ROG in at 10, he looked good on tv, I’m sure he could garryowen the crap out of it.... Sexton seemingly can’t anymore

Yeah, Sexton is past it and proved once and for all that not only should ROG have started all of those 2011 games; he should have started every game since. Including Saturday.

Zebo at fullback if we're sticking ROG at 10.

Shefwedfan

troyzer wrote: »

Yeah, Sexton is past it and proved once and for all that not only should ROG have started all of those 2011 games; he should have started every game since. Including Saturday.

Zebo at fullback if we're sticking ROG at 10.

Zeebs and Carbs in the same team, injury or not we need earlsey on that pitch as well, commentators dream

Pussyhands

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Well Sexton won player of the year

Wilkonson wasn’t half bad
Carter of course

All off top of head, sure I could find plenty more

Sexton was 32/33 when he won it and he wouldn't have won it if his wasn't part of a successful team either.

I don't think Sextons best year of his career was last year anyways.

troyzer

Pussyhands wrote: »

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Well Sexton won player of the year

Wilkonson wasn’t half bad
Carter of course

All off top of head, sure I could find plenty more

Sexton was 32/33 when he won it and he wouldn't have won it if his wasn't part of a successful team either.

I don't think Sextons best year of his career was last year anyways.

He was 33 when he won it. He wasn't handed it at midnight on his 32nd birthday. There's no ambiguity.

Carter was also 33 when he won it in 2015.

2018 was comfortably the best year Sexton has ever had.

mfceiling

Pussyhands wrote: »

I don't think Sextons best year of his career was last year anyways.

You're right...What were they thinking awarding him World player of the year for that anyway?

Richie_Rich89

Quinlan's really embarrassing himself on the tv, talking about a "forward" pass. Doesn't know the laws, or basic physics.

The Rape of Lucretia

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Quinlan's really embarrassing himself on the tv, talking about a "forward" pass. Doesn't know the laws, or basic physics.

It was no way a forward pass. Slade is even still ahead of May when May collects.