Charge back question

Call_me_Al

small story,

I purchase 6 items from 1 china seller on ebay.

Item arrived (got hit with customs) 40euro, I really dont mind,

But the products itself are damaged, not fit for purchase and is actually a fire hazard

the seller wants to offer me a partial refund, and I am not 1 bit happy

I contacted ebay, they pushed my onto paypal, paypal said I purchased with my visa card and as a paypal guest, which means although my bank statement says "paypal and the seller name" the transaction wont appear on my actual paypal account

Im roughly about 20days into conversation with the seller at this stage and I am getting noware, The seller has offered to have the products repair in ireland , the repair people say they wont touch them.

in relation the paypal, paypal are telling me to open a dispute in the paypal transaction options, I keep telling paypal that the sale was done via paypal guest

It appears to be a different correspondent replying each day, I am going around in circles.

Is it time for me to get it touch with my PTSB Branch as request a charge back?

I have sent pictures and a shourt video to the seller, clearling showing the damage, I get the reply (sorry we cannot open the video on this end) then they reply (sorry we can only hear the voice) no pictures.

I believe they are deliberately selling faulty goods! all 6 pieces with micro processor damage, no signs of DHL transport damage.

I am banking with PTSB

uncommon_name

Put the video up on YouTube and send them a link. They will have no excuse not to see it then.
Plus they will not like it up on YouTube where other people can see it.

I have had issues in the past multiple times with Ebay sellers. Mainly the Chinese ones. I just stopped using Ebay because they do not seem to care.

Call_me_Al

Hi, I sent the video directly to them on an email address the requested, when the tried saying it didnt arrive I sent them the youtube link.

They are full of exuses, wasting my time and dragging on the time frame for when I can submit a claim

I will await for paypal to reply to me 1 more time, after that I will have no choice but to talk to the bank

Call_me_Al

paypal eventually denied my claim of refund

I was asked to return the goods to the sender, the post office refused to let me send it because it contains batteries, batteries are prohibited

I went to my bank to enquire about a charge back proceedure, I was told not an option, that my issue is between the seller and myself!!

so, it looks like the seller is going to get away with my 180euros, and im going to be left with cheap replica, crapy products that are not as desribed in the listing.

way to go paypal, ebay and PTSB banking

Genghis

I had a similar situation last year.
Dodgy Chinese seller, sent an item nothing like described or near to value. Used Chargeback and was successful. Not painless but not onerous either.

Am curious ... Was it someone in the branch who advised you chargeback not an option here?

Usually the process is:

1. You dispute the transaction
2. Funds are taken back immediately via Visa from the retailers merchant acquirer and 'held' pending resolution
3. Bank sends you a formal declaration form, which you complete (tick box) and provide evidence on, with signature etc. You would include evidence of items received being not as described, and the efforts you made to resolve, much like you have put here. Could include video etc & compare it to listed items etc.

4. Retailer has to defend the chargeback. They will detail their T&C's, etc. Honourable retailers will engage, people like this co will not bother, they know most people will never chargeback.

5. If they can't defend the transaction (they have a certain no. days to engage) and show they acred within rules they 'lose' and the funds held are sent to you.

I would phone PTSB and ask for their chargeback team. Beware you only have a certain amount of time to initiate your chargeback.

This is a good link:

https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/shopping/disputed-card-transactions-chargeback/

Jim2007

Call_me_Al wrote: »

so, it looks like the seller is going to get away with my 180euros, and im going to be left with cheap replica, crapy products that are not as desribed in the listing.

way to go paypal, ebay and PTSB banking

First the goods were damaged, then no fit for purpose and now not as described...

An inconsistent story line is always bad news in these circumstances as it makes it very easy for the seller to just shrug it off as buyer dissatisfaction.

Call_me_Al

Jim2007 wrote: »

First the goods were damaged, then no fit for purpose and now not as described...

An inconsistent story line is always bad news in these circumstances as it makes it very easy for the seller to just shrug it off as buyer dissatisfaction.

yes good are physically damaged
yes they are not fit for purpose, if they are physically damaged then how can they be fit for purpose!?

descibed as new parts - they are not fecking new parts when they are DAMAGED

Are you trying to say I am making this up?

because the seller has 110 negative feedbacks from this month alone with unhappy customers

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Jim2007

Call_me_Al wrote: »

yes good are physically damaged
yes they are not fit for purpose, if they are physically damaged then how can they be fit for purpose!?

descibed as new parts - they are not fecking new parts when they are DAMAGED

Are you trying to say I am making this up?

because the seller has 110 negative feedbacks from this month alone with unhappy customers

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Clearly you do not understand these terms! The fact that the goods were damaged does not mean that the product was not as described nor does it mean that the product was not fit for purpose. Note when you are talking about something being not as described or not fit for purpose, you are talking about the product in general, not the one you received.

The people making the decision on your refund/charge back have very little to go on when making the decision. So tell them something that is wrong and that they can easily check with their own eyes and you have lost credibility with them right away. After that it is going to be an up hill struggle to get anywhere with them.

As for feedback, the time for checking the feedback was BEFORE you made the purchase!

I buy a lot of components from these places every year, with very few issues. But I follow the guidelines given out in most forums discussing this topic:
- only buy from merchants that have been around for a few years.
- only buy from merchants with a couple of hundred positive feedbacks, if not for the particular item you want, at least for other products
- don’t be the first buyer, be the 50+ buyer
- Google the product and the merchant to see if there are any other issues
- buy a small quantity of the component first to check quality and fitness for purpose
- never spend money you cannot afford to loose because there is an element of gambling involved

Donald Trump

Call_me_Al wrote: »

so, it looks like the seller is going to get away with my 180euros, and im going to be left with cheap replica, crapy products that are not as desribed in the listing.

Surely if you bought a product *thinking* they were real (i.e. you can plausibly claim you thought they were), but they turned out to be fakes, then it should be an open-and-shut case for paypal refund.

Jim2007

Donald Trump wrote: »

Surely if you bought a product *thinking* they were real (i.e. you can plausibly claim you thought they were), but they turned out to be fakes, then it should be an open-and-shut case for paypal refund.

Well if you read the OP’s last post, it seems that the product was as described and fit for purpose, but the undamaged package he received contained six broken items. They paid by credit card, which the merchant processed via the PayPal guest option. So the usual PayPal members rules do not apply.

All in all an example of what not to do when purchasing over the internet and in particular when buying from Asia.

Donald Trump

Jim2007 wrote: »

Well if you read the OP’s last post, it seems that the product was as described and fit for purpose, but the undamaged package he received contained six broken items. They paid by credit card, which the merchant processed via the PayPal guest option. So the usual PayPal members rules do not apply.

All in all an example of what not to do when purchasing over the internet and in particular when buying from Asia.

No. If I sell you a "Rolex watch" and it turns out to be a cheap fake worth about a fiver, I can't just say "but it tells the time so it's fit for purpose" .


I think that selling fake merchendise is also explicitly against ebay rules.


If something arrives and is broke, it hardly fits description unless the item description said "item not in working order"

Jim2007

Donald Trump wrote: »

No. If I sell you a "Rolex watch" and it turns out to be a cheap fake worth about a fiver, I can't just say "but it tells the time so it's fit for purpose" .


I think that selling fake merchendise is also explicitly against ebay rules.


If something arrives and is broke, it hardly fits description unless the item description said "item not in working order"

If you bought a fake watch you would not be arguing that it is not fit for purpose would you???

Your claim would be that you had been sold fake goods and that would be the basis for you claim and that alone. You would not suddenly in the middle of the process change your mind and decide that actually the real basis for the claim was that it was not fit for purpose and then change yet again to the description as the basis for the claim.....

As I said before the People at PayPal have very limited information to go and an inconsistent story line will go to your creditability.

And of course if you expect customer care then don't buy direct from Asia. You can have cheap or customer care, but not the two.

Donald Trump

Jim2007 wrote: »

If you bought a fake watch you would not be arguing that it is not fit for purpose would you???

Your claim would be that you had been sold fake goods and that would be the basis for you claim and that alone. You would not suddenly in the middle of the process change your mind and decide that actually the real basis for the claim was that it was not fit for purpose and then change yet again to the description as the basis for the claim.....

As I said before the People at PayPal have very limited information to go and an inconsistent story line will go to your creditability.

And of course if you expect customer care then don't buy direct from Asia. You can have cheap or customer care, but not the two.

I'm not disputing otherwise. I am only pointing out to the OP that if he had contacted ebay/paypal and said "I have checked and the goods sent were counterfit/fake and not as advertised" then I'd imagine he'd get his money back and not even have to return the broken items.

Jim2007

Donald Trump wrote: »

I'm not disputing otherwise. I am only pointing out to the OP that if he had contacted ebay/paypal and said "I have checked and the goods sent were counterfit/fake and not as advertised" then I'd imagine he'd get his money back and not even have to return the broken items.

I think that is where he took the second hit, he actually paid by credit card, but the vendor processed it via the PayPal guest option, so the usual PayPal cover don't apply.

Call_me_Al

Hi, Im glad to report back that paypal looked in my favour and the case is now closed, I rang paypal to express my concerns about the goods and that I belived they are to be fake and this is the reason why none of them are working

within 24 hours I received an email saying case closed and full refund will be credit back to my card of ourchase within a few days.

the person I was dealing with on the phone confimed that I have 180 days to file a dispute and I was perfectly fine about using paypal as a guest.

Im glad it was all sorted, the goods are going to be binned and I have left a negative feedback on the sellers profile.

*paypal* reopened the case for me when I rang them.