ESB eCars

ELM327

Thats the ecars way

Sure in the screenshot above they dont know about AC and DC at the same time on the 50kW efacecs!

Thanks
-Anna

Busman Paddy Lasty

Not harsh at all. Think that triple header unit was only out putting approx 30kW anyway. Not sure if it was ever fixed.

Second time calling there the whole services had no power. No charge and no chicken fillet roll were had that day

the_amazing_raisin

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

Not harsh at all. Think that triple header unit was only out putting approx 30kW anyway. Not sure if it was ever fixed.

Second time calling there the whole services had no power. No charge and no chicken fillet roll were had that day

Someone must have plugged 2 cars in at once

Pulled into Carlow DC today needed/Wanted a charge and a Model S just pulled up, potential 1 hr wait or more, if another car had been waiting that could turn into 2 hrs, the Network is years away from being adequate. Imagine 1 Petrol station in Carlow with 1 Pump ?

Irishjg

Deleted User wrote: »

Pulled into Carlow DC today needed/Wanted a charge and a Model S just pulled up, potential 1 hr wait or more, if another car had been waiting that could turn into 2 hrs, the Network is years away from being adequate. Imagine 1 Petrol station in Carlow with 1 Pump ?

I totally agree, adding to that there’s a very well positioned service station at J5 just outside of Carlow town which has no charging points ... ZERO. What a shambles.

Irishjg

Irishjg wrote: »

I totally agree, adding to that there’s a very well positioned service station at J5 just outside of Carlow town which has no charging points ... ZERO. What a shambles.

That's Tinryland I think, not far from me also, I have no idea why the M9 is so poorly served.

Before Christmas I had to endure reduced power from the 50 Kw DC in Kilcullen, I even checked the battery temp in the i3 and it was around 21 Deg C so I should have been receiving mas power at 50% charge.

A few weeks before that I pulled into the Kilcullen "Hub" again and there was a Kona charging on the 50 Kw so I had to use the 150 Kw and pay more despite not being able to receive over 50 Kw, the Kona can, at least for a short time.

Shambles isn't the word.

Black_Knight

From the IEVOA meeting today:

Ecars can't even decide whether they're called rapid or fast chargers.


Funding
€10M state + €10M esb funding is for infrastructure, not running costs, to be drawn down over the years.

AC unit upgrades:
50 AC units planned to be upgraded to DC. By my count we have already got 18 of those delivered (Circontrol Raption 50 units).
Birr, Killarney, West cork, Carlow, Wexford X2 and monaghan on the cards next.

3-4 vehicle sites:
Planned/under construction:
Athlone, Ballinalack, Carrick-on-shannon, Oranmore, Lahey, Sligo, Lough, Cork City.

Monasterevin is a 4 unit, 8 vehicle hub. May/Early June ETA.


Some ECars comments:
- No plans to roll out any additional AC 22kW units in Ireland.
- Many units are not manufactured anymore, so mass replacement is required.
- Replacing units was requiring planning permission. This is no longer an issue. (this might have been NI, I wasn't paying proper attention - about 40 odd minutes into the meeting)

EasyGo
2-3 months before we see the 75kW units. Primarily being used in the Eir Phone boxes. Expanded this out to 250 sites.
Contract signed with Musgraves to install units at their stores.
Moving into the UK market too.
For the most part, sites have groundworks already done to add additional units to a site. Monitoring through their software when units are in continuous use, to guide further installs.
Pay by VIN is a WIP with OEMs. VW will be the first onboard with EasyGo this year

Randbridge on apartment charging
Lots of roadblocks. Who pays the initial costs of running cabling etc to a space some distance from the power supply?
Management companies don't want to because they'll be caught for the cost.
Installers like randbridge don't want to because the payback period is up to 10 years (if they charge for usage in the estate/apartment complex).

&charge - German company
- A loyalty program for free public charging.
- Upselling for partners at sites when EV users are charging - free coffee etc.
&Charge connects with 800+ ecommerce partners, and they advertise for them. Some of their commission goes towards reducing EV charging. You get 1kms of range, for every €X spent on a linked ecommerce site. So buy €500 worth in IKEA and get 100km worth of range for free. Something like that.
- Gamification of charging. Like Google guides it seems. Add pictures, facilities etc.
- Linked with Booking.com, so you can pair your travel with accommodation, and I guess earn credits by booking through them.
- Wallbox sharing - allow users to use your home charge.
- Coming to Ireland in 2021+

Carlow only had 1 dc charger,

Thanks for the Info, doesn’t look like 2021 will bring the needed infrastructure, at this rate we’re 5-10 years behind some countries.

slave1

Thanks for the Summary, that center photo is exactly what's needed and it only took them a decade to come up with the first one, mind you this is the same time they're installing a shambles of a Hub in Athlone

markpb

Many units are not manufactured anymore, so mass replacement is required.

If only they hadn’t spend the last few years throwing 22kW chargers all over the country. If they had spent the same money installing 50 and 150 chargers, they’d have a better network and fewer units to replace.

slave1

22kW are actually great, newer cars are starting to spec 22kW charging again after dropping to 7kW.
Some have 11kW and 16kW, a Zoe or Model S can get a good 50kms+ range in half an hour, not to be sniffed at if you're just looking for a boost to get you home, upcoming Ayria has 22kW too

graememk

Black_Knight wrote: »

From the IEVOA meeting today:

Ecars can't even decide whether they're called rapid or fast chargers.

Its USB all over again

USB, USB hi speed, usb superspeed, etc. now its something silly like superspeed 10gbps or something silly.

Could just go for DC 50kw, DC 150kw, than trying to think of different words for fast, super fast, super duper fast....

slave1

graememk wrote: »

Its USB all over again

USB, USB hi speed, usb superspeed, etc. now its something silly like superspeed 10gbps or something silly.

Could just go for DC 50kw, DC 150kw, than trying to think of different words for fast, super fast, super duper fast....

If they use that convention they'd have to give a tag to their 2kW chargers......super dopey slow

AndyBoBandy

graememk wrote: »

than trying to think of different words for fast, super fast, super duper fast....

Just call them all slower than Ionity/Tesla....

markpb

slave1 wrote: »

22kW are actually great, newer cars are starting to spec 22kW charging again after dropping to 7kW.
Some have 11kW and 16kW, a Zoe or Model S can get a good 50kms+ range in half an hour, not to be sniffed at if you're just looking for a boost to get you home, upcoming Ayria has 22kW too

I can charge at 17kW on a 22 so I’m a big fan of them. But I don’t think they should form the backbone of a charging network. 150s should have come first along the motorways and other National-primary routes. Then 50s along other inter-urbans, 22s in town centres and 7s at train stations.

markpb

markpb wrote: »

If only they hadn’t spend the last few years throwing 22kW chargers all over the country. If they had spent the same money installing 50 and 150 chargers, they’d have a better network and fewer units to replace.

graememk wrote: »

Its USB all over again

USB, USB hi speed, usb superspeed, etc. now its something silly like superspeed 10gbps or something silly.

Could just go for DC 50kw, DC 150kw, than trying to think of different words for fast, super fast, super duper fast....

These days they can get 20 Kw DC chargers and install 2 to replace the 22 x 2 Kw AC points then each can can receive up to 20 Kw on DC in town this would be great but it costs more but the greatest obstacle with this is that they usually only have one plug so they'd have to decide what cars can charge, ChaDeMo or CCS unless this has changed.

AC is very useful, I can get 22 Kwh in just 2 hrs with the 11 Kw charger in the i3. The Zoe 22 Kwh in 1 Hr. The AC points are incredibly useful the issue is the car manufacturers need to install more powerful chargers.

We need as many ways of charging as possible.

Black_Knight

[Deleted User] wrote: »

AC is very useful, I can get 22 Kwh in just 2 hrs with the 11 Kw charger in the i3. The Zoe 22 Kwh in 2 Hr. The AC points are incredibly useful the issue is the car manufacturers need to install more powerful chargers.

We need as many ways of charging as possible.

Well it seems we're only going to get less AC units from ESB for the next while. No new AC units was what I gathered from the meeting, and converting more AC units to DC.

I must double check on the recording when it's out, but I believe that's what I heard.

AndyBoBandy

Black_Knight wrote: »

Well it seems we're only going to get less AC units from ESB for the next while. No new AC units was what I gathered from the meeting, and converting more AC units to DC.

I must double check on the recording when it's out, but I believe that's what I heard.

That sounds fine to me.
There’s enough of them around now to suffice.
Now they must get all the hubs up to speed. All of them on all the routes... then, and only then, can they start blitzing towns with more AC22’s

the_amazing_raisin

Black_Knight wrote: »

Well it seems we're only going to get less AC units from ESB for the next while. No new AC units was what I gathered from the meeting, and converting more AC units to DC.

I must double check on the recording when it's out, but I believe that's what I heard.

I guess those 44kW units are a fairly decent replacement. Can charge 1 vehicle on DC and another on AC at the same time

They need to get the load balancing right though, it'd be better if they limited the AC to 11kW until the DC demand drops, as the person on DC would generally be looking for a quick charge

They could make the AC cheaper to compensate for the lower power

Also, it'd be great if those units could charge 2 vehicles on DC at once, although the power would be pretty pathetic, you'd probably have to implement a first come first served system

Black_Knight

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I guess those 44kW units are a fairly decent replacement. Can charge 1 vehicle on DC and another on AC at the same time

They need to get the load balancing right though, it'd be better if they limited the AC to 11kW until the DC demand drops, as the person on DC would generally be looking for a quick charge

They could make the AC cheaper to compensate for the lower power

Also, it'd be great if those units could charge 2 vehicles on DC at once, although the power would be pretty pathetic, you'd probably have to implement a first come first served system

The AC is cheaper, as it's only 22kW it's on the scp rate, meaning you could have someone slow charging there all day, a bay blocked, no overstay. It's untethered, so ideally ESB would of added a 3rd bay to allow AC charging without blocking the DC bays (shorter cables).


Agreed with the load balancing, given the AC socket would more likely be used by longer staying cars so dropping the charge rate for 30-45 minutes wouldn't be the end of the world. It does mean if a Zoe or Tesla with 22kW AC is charging, your DC port will only be able to offer up ~25kW. Pathetic

the_amazing_raisin

slave1 wrote: »

Thanks for the Summary, that center photo is exactly what's needed and it only took them a decade to come up with the first one, mind you this is the same time they're installing a shambles of a Hub in Athlone

What's the bet those 4 units are 150kW divided across the 2 plugs? If another car plugs in you'll be dropped to 75kW

the_amazing_raisin

Black_Knight wrote: »

The AC is cheaper, as it's only 22kW it's on the scp rate, meaning you could have someone slow charging there all day, a bay blocked, no overstay. It's untethered, so ideally ESB would of added a 3rd bay to allow AC charging without blocking the DC bays (shorter cables).


Agreed with the load balancing, given the AC socket would more likely be used by longer staying cars so dropping the charge rate for 30-45 minutes wouldn't be the end of the world. It does mean if a Zoe or Tesla with 22kW AC is charging, your DC port will only be able to offer up ~25kW. Pathetic

Ah so they charge different prices depending on the plug you use? That's pretty decent, I'd assumed that was beyond the ESB IT departments skill level

You could even split the difference in the AC and make it 16kW, leaving 28kW for the DC plug

Since a lot of those locations are somewhere you could be stopping for a while, 28kW minimum power isn't so bad. They should probably raise the overstay to 60 mins or something then

Laviski

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Ah so they charge different prices depending on the plug you use? That's pretty decent, I'd assumed that was beyond the ESB IT departments skill level

You could even split the difference in the AC and make it 16kW, leaving 28kW for the DC plug

Since a lot of those locations are somewhere you could be stopping for a while, 28kW minimum power isn't so bad. They should probably raise the overstay to 60 mins or something then

Makes sense to me but unlikely to implement.
Im happy thou that they replace existing ac units with the new dc/ac unit. Making more likely to get a free point at your location or not to be waiting long. Rather than two ac units hogged for hours....

But locations where you can dc charge 2/3 cars is badly needed.

the_amazing_raisin

Black_Knight wrote: »

Well it seems we're only going to get less AC units from ESB for the next while. No new AC units was what I gathered from the meeting, and converting more AC units to DC.

I must double check on the recording when it's out, but I believe that's what I heard.

While I'm in not complaining about converting the existing AC units to DC, I'm not exactly following the issue with supporting the old units

I get the ones they installed previously are out of support and they can't get parts, but surely they could get different ones? Are 22kW charging posts not being made anymore or something?

Some of the 22kW units seem pretty new, so surely they can still get them somewhere

Black_Knight

cruisey1987 wrote: »

While I'm in not complaining about converting the existing AC units to DC, I'm not exactly following the issue with supporting the old units

I get the ones they installed previously are out of support and they can't get parts, but surely they could get different ones? Are 22kW charging posts not being made anymore or something?

Some of the 22kW units seem pretty new, so surely they can still get them somewhere

Yes, esb are replacing around 200 older AC units. Last I checked the are about 160 of the old sliding charge port style units remaining, and over 200 of the new AC units have been installed (new locations and replacements). So there's plenty of AC upgrades to come, just no new locations from what I understand.

Black_Knight

Black_Knight wrote: »

From the IEVOA meeting today:

Funding
€10M state + €10M esb funding is for infrastructure, not running costs, to be drawn down over the years.
Drawn down about 1M so far of the 10M funding from the climate action fund

AC unit upgrades:
50 AC units planned to be upgraded to DC. By my count we have already got 18 of those delivered (Circontrol Raption 50 units).
Birr, Killarney, West cork, Carlow, Wexford X2 and monaghan on the cards next.
* Upgrading 50 AC units to DC - Hoping 20 this year, a further 20 the next year, and this project runs until 2023. ~17 done so far (I count 18)

3-4 vehicle sites:
Planned/under construction:
Athlone, Ballinalack, Carrick-on-shannon, Oranmore, Lahey, Sligo, Louth, Cork City.

Monasterevin is a 4 unit, 8 vehicle hub. May/Early June ETA.


Some ECars comments:
- No plans to address WAW "tourist" spots with additional units - Lahinch hinted as getting a DC upgrade from AC.
- No plans to roll out any additional AC 22kW units in Ireland.
Northern Ireland
- None of the units in NI are manufactured anymore, so mass replacement is required. Needs 1.5-2 million required.
- Replacing units was requiring planning permission. Legislation has changed around this in December. This is no longer an issue. There are plans to replace some units, but there's no commercial value in NI at the moment, and Ecars are working towards introducing pricing to make their network commercially viable.

Just had a listen back to ECars presentation.

Updated the above quote in bold.

ELM327

At least in the photo they have 8 bays marked, and they seem all CCS units

Black_Knight

ELM327 wrote: »

At least in the photo they have 8 bays marked, and they seem all CCS units

Yeah, I asked a question in the meeting very early on "what is the configuration of the 8 car hub?" but it didn't get answered.

Mickeroo

Black_Knight wrote: »

3-4 vehicle sites:
Planned/under construction:
Athlone, Ballinalack, Carrick-on-shannon, Oranmore, Lahey, Sligo, Lough, Cork City.

Where are Lahey and Lough? Loughrea is it?

Edit: sorry missed your correction on louth there :pac:

the_amazing_raisin

Mickeroo wrote: »

Where are Lahey and Lough? Loughrea is it?

Edit: sorry missed your correction on louth there :pac:

I was about to correct you


They're nice and vague aren't they? Louth is a fairly big county


I'm gonna guess the motorway services at Castlebellingham, they've been crying out for more chargers for years, plus they have Tesla Superchargers there already so the grid connection must be good