ESB eCars

Black_Knight

innrain wrote: »

On April 2019 when the "expansion" was announced there were around 4.6k EVs. Since then the fleet increased with 8.8k. Around 5.2k new EVs (40% of the EVs on the road) sold since the lockdown started. When these 5k cars hit the road is going to be as you said... what is the word for cars stampede?

I'd compare post fees, pre covid ev numbers with now. The free network was abused and always busy. There might be some queuing still, but I don't think it'll be a disaster. That said, I've never had to overrely on the network in the past, and likely less so now.

Kramer

Black_Knight wrote: »

There might be some queuing still, but I don't think it'll be a disaster.

To me, any queueing will be a disaster :eek:.

The vast majority of DC chargers, being 50kW & just single units, added to the fact the majority of new EVs have 58/64/77kWh batteries, I expect charging sessions could be longer.

It wasn't so bad pulling up to a 50kW DC 2 years ago, with a 24kWh Leaf or 28kWh Ioniq plugged it - they were never going to be too long.

But an apartment dwelling ID.4 owner, with a 77kWh battery, on his her their sole weekly charge, pulling under 50kW - it could be painful .

I think it could revert to pre charging for charging levels of utilisation, for certain chargers. Thousands of large battery EVs added this year, but next to nothing added to the charging network.

whatawaster

Two weeks with an Ioniq and waiting for my home charger to be installed. Relying on the public network and it really is a shambles IMO.

I live in Drogheda which is I believe the biggest town in Ireland. It had one Rapid charger. One of the spaces is taken up on almost a daily basis by a Range Rover Plug in Hybrid using the type 2 charger. They just leave it there all day.

The “fast” chargers seem like a massive waste of time. It’s hard to see who they benefit.

AndyBoBandy

Kramer wrote: »

But an apartment dwelling ID.4 owner, with a 77kWh battery, on his her their sole weekly charge, pulling under 50kW - it could be painful .

I think it could revert to pre charging for charging levels of utilisation, for certain chargers. Thousands of large battery EVs added this year, but next to nothing added to the charging network.

Ah when they do their weekly shop in Tesco they can park up for 7 hours and get a full charge.....

Black_Knight

whatawaster wrote: »

Two weeks with an Ioniq and waiting for my home charger to be installed. Relying on the public network and it really is a shambles IMO.

I live in Drogheda which is I believe the biggest town in Ireland. It had one Rapid charger. One of the spaces is taken up on almost a daily basis by a Range Rover Plug in Hybrid using the type 2 charger. They just leave it there all day.

The “fast” chargers seem like a massive waste of time. It’s hard to see who they benefit.

Finally someone experiencing what I've been rambling on about as a major issue with these new DC units with untethered 22kW. Range rover plugs in all day, no overstay fee because it's only 22kW, and blocks 1 bay all day, thus blocking either cars with left hand side ports or right hand side ports, depending on what bay he occupies. Not his fault, he's entitled to do so, but very much the shortcomings of those units. I'll suggest giving feedback about that unit on plugshare and the ESB app too.

Kramer

From the ID.4 thread.
Maybe better in the Ionity thread or general charging thread, but pertinent here too so......

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

It looks like VW have withdrawn any offers related to We Charge, membership costs full price now

This is ridiculous now.

NO provider is going to invest in charging infrastructure where Ionity are already in situ. Yet no one, not even VW owners, (founder?) members of Ionity, are being incentivised to use their network.

It's like the Ionity in Cashel - few will use it in preference to the 60% cheaper eCars unit.

To me it looks like Ionity just wanted to avail of €uropean taxpayer grants, get in & install the network, to block competition.

Ionity is being seen as a last resort or only to be used when stuck - it's not good for anyone, especially not wider EV adoption. I think the network should have been provided centrally & then tenders offered to operate it with caps & targets agreed.

By the time €urope take notice & act, it'll be too late & we'll have piecemeal chargers/providers strewn all over the place with no logic.

AndyBoBandy

The best we could hope for would be for Ionity to pull out of Ireland, and someone like eCars or EasyGo take over the Ionity sites (and even the chargers).

whatawaster

Black_Knight wrote: »

Finally someone experiencing what I've been rambling on about as a major issue with these new DC units with untethered 22kW. Range rover plugs in all day, no overstay fee because it's only 22kW, and blocks 1 bay all day, thus blocking either cars with left hand side ports or right hand side ports, depending on what bay he occupies. Not his fault, he's entitled to do so, but very much the shortcomings of those units. I'll suggest giving feedback about that unit on plugshare and the ESB app too.

It should be policed better but it’s still ignorant and selfish to abandon your car there for the day

cannco253

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

The best we could hope for would be for Ionity to pull out of Ireland, and someone like eCars or EasyGo take over the Ionity sites (and even the chargers).

Any chance of GridServe coming to Ireland? They bought into Ecotricity recently and are pushing the rollout/replacement in the UK
The Braintree forecort looks great, albeit the only one in the UK.

https://www.gridserve.com/electric-vehicle-charging/

innrain

Kramer wrote: »

Thousands of large battery EVs added this year, but next to nothing added to the charging network.

I think McGiver counted 6 new HCPs vs 9k new EVs that's 1.5k new cars per HCP. Overall at this stage there are around 120 FCPs and 13k EV so the ratio over 1k cars per charger.

The 50kW upgrade is so 2016. When they'll finish upgrading, around 2024, they'll start replacing them with 75kW ones. Maybe another 8 new one if we're good and stop complaining.

the_amazing_raisin

whatawaster wrote: »

Two weeks with an Ioniq and waiting for my home charger to be installed. Relying on the public network and it really is a shambles IMO.

I live in Drogheda which is I believe the biggest town in Ireland. It had one Rapid charger. One of the spaces is taken up on almost a daily basis by a Range Rover Plug in Hybrid using the type 2 charger. They just leave it there all day.

The “fast” chargers seem like a massive waste of time. It’s hard to see who they benefit.

I have to say the difference between Drogheda and Swords (similar sized town) is pretty shocking.

Drogheda has 1 FCP in the town and 5 SCPs if I remember correctly

Swords doesn't have any FCPs in the town itself but has 4 within easy reach (1 Chademo only, so fairly limited usefulness) and something like 8 SCPs

That alone probably contributes to the fairly large number of EVs around Swords

the_amazing_raisin

Kramer wrote: »

From the ID.4 thread.
Maybe better in the Ionity thread or general charging thread, but pertinent here too so......



This is ridiculous now.

NO provider is going to invest in charging infrastructure where Ionity are already in situ. Yet no one, not even VW owners, (founder?) members of Ionity, are being incentivised to use their network.

It's like the Ionity in Cashel - few will use it in preference to the 60% cheaper eCars unit.

To me it looks like Ionity just wanted to avail of €uropean taxpayer grants, get in & install the network, to block competition.

Ionity is being seen as a last resort or only to be used when stuck - it's not good for anyone, especially not wider EV adoption. I think the network should have been provided centrally & then tenders offered to operate it with caps & targets agreed.

By the time €urope take notice & act, it'll be too late & we'll have piecemeal chargers/providers strewn all over the place with no logic.

Personally I'd take Ionity over ECars any day, it's like sticking with 56k internet because broadband costs more. The quality of service of Ionity is miles ahead of anything ESB ever dreamed of

If I wound up using Ionity a lot then I'd pay the subscription for discount charging prices, it pays off pretty well if you're using it on a regular basis

Maybe when the ESB hub at J17 opens up I'll consider it, but to be frank the cheaper rates from ESB make them more likely to be busy.

If anything I'd accuse ESB of being manipulating the market since they have the largest network on Ireland and set the price low to keep the competition out

Black_Knight

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

Personally I'd take Ionity over ECars any day, it's like sticking with 56k internet because broadband costs more. The quality of service of Ionity is miles ahead of anything ESB ever dreamed of

If I wound up using Ionity a lot then I'd pay the subscription for discount charging prices, it pays off pretty well if you're using it on a regular basis

Maybe when the ESB hub at J17 opens up I'll consider it, but to be frank the cheaper rates from ESB make them more likely to be busy.

If anything I'd accuse ESB of being manipulating the market since they have the largest network on Ireland and set the price low to keep the competition out

I'm probably somewhere in between. If I'm in no rush, I'd certainly use the cheaper option, especially considering the price difference between ESB and ionity.

In a hurry? I'll pay whatever. It's rare I use them so it's not going to break the bank.

A choice between ESB 50kW and 150kW, I'll go 150kW every time, the price difference is negligible. Though if I'm in no rush and someone wants the 150kW I'll swap out.

Black_Knight

Got me thinking....

20-80% in my id4 would take about an hour on the 50kW. That's about €20 for 50kWh including overstay.

At the 150kW unit (I'm going to assume an average of 75kW). That's 40 minutes for 50kWh, and only €18.50.
So the cheaper units may end up being more expensive if you overstay.

Kramer

Black_Knight wrote: »

20-80% in my id4 would take about an hour on the 50kW. That's about €20 for 50kWh including overstay.

That's largely my point. Newer, bigger battery cars take longer to charge, on by modern standards, very slow & very antiquated chargers.
90%+ eCars/EasyGo DC chargers are single units & nowadays, just far too slow.

Your 50kWh charge would be quicker by possibly 20 minutes on Ionity, but cost €40 :eek:.

Unless stuck/in a hurry/travelling with family etc., would anyone pay €20 extra, to save just 20 minutes?

Tesla have just 3 dedicated DC charging locations in Ireland (more coming soon!!!!), Ionity more, but finished their roll out, eCars are glacial & by today's standards, 1x 150kW (split into 2x 75kW) & 1x 50kW "hubs" are piss poor.
We have thousands of new EVs on the roads & more & more to come, yet stasis in charging infrastructure.

Remember - we have a green transport minister now too :pac:.

Black_Knight

Kramer wrote: »

That's largely my point. Newer, bigger battery cars take longer to charge, on by modern standards, very slow & very antiquated chargers.
90%+ eCars/EasyGo DC chargers are single units & nowadays, just far too slow.

Your 50kWh charge would be quicker by possibly 20 minutes on Ionity, but cost €40 :eek:.

Unless stuck/in a hurry/travelling with family etc., would anyone pay €20 extra, to save just 20 minutes?

Tesla have just 3 dedicated DC charging locations in Ireland (more coming soon!!!!), Ionity more, but finished their roll out, eCars are glacial & by today's standards, 1x 150kW (split into 2x 75kW) & 1x 50kW "hubs" are piss poor.
We have thousands of new EVs on the roads & more & more to come, yet stasis in charging infrastructure.

Remember - we have a green transport minister now too :pac:.

For now on charge point it'd be €32. Not the worst I guess, but ecars doing it for much much cheaper on their 150kW units is a bit manipulative

the_amazing_raisin

Black_Knight wrote: »

For now on charge point it'd be €32. Not the worst I guess, but ecars doing it for much much cheaper on their 150kW units is a bit manipulative

Well the overstay fee is there to get you off the charger after 45 mins so I'd say it makes sense that it's cheaper to use the HPC

Look at it another way, I arrived in Drogheda a couple of years ago to find an I-Pace and an E-Tron waiting at the 50kW charger in Lidl.

They needed about 100kWh between them to charge and my dinky Leaf needed about 12kWh

Now if there had been a more expensive HPC nearby I'd have been telling them to FRO and stop being cheap

the_amazing_raisin

Kramer wrote: »

Remember - we have a green transport minister now too :pac:.

Good luck, he's busy with high priority items like the bees

Silent Running

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

Good luck, he's busy with high priority items like the bees

In fairness, if we lose the bees we won't be worried about charging cars.

the_amazing_raisin

Silent Running wrote: »

In fairness, if we lose the bees we won't be worried about charging cars.

Yeah true enough, somewhat easier problem to solve though, and probably cheaper than a high quality charging network

Black_Knight

Going to try do this at the start of each month.

Black_Knight wrote: »

My stats say, over the last 2 weeks:
CHAdeMO has been occupied 45.8% of the time.
CCS the other 54.2% of the time
Though lockdown don't help.

CCS/CHAdeMO split
My stats say, over the last 2 weeks:
CHAdeMO has been occupied 44.4% of the time.
CCS the other 55.6% of the time
Though lockdown don't help.

Black_Knight wrote: »

245 of the newer 22kW AC units are now in place.
153 of the old units yet to be replaced, and 21 of those single socket AC units to be replaced too.

A rough idea of what's been upgraded since the middle of January:

AC updates to the new Evolve Smart T unit 153 remaining
<Snip list>

AC units upgraded to DC - 19 of the 50 delivered
Ballymahon Road, Athlone, Westmeath

New FCP
Kilmartin N6 Service Station, Dublin road, Athlone, Co.Westmeath, Ireland

Unit counts
125 Fast charge units installed
543 Slow charge AC units installed

262 of the newer 22kW AC units are now in place.
142 of the old units yet to be replaced, and 19 of those single socket AC units to be replaced too.

AC updates to the new Evolve Smart T unit
Strand Road, Bray, Wicklow
Main Street, Dundrum, Dublin 14
Irish Rail, Western Relief Road (R443) Kilcruttin, Tullamore, Offaly
Irish Rail Mallow Station, Limerick Road, Mallow, Cork
Irish Rail Station, Railway Road, Charleville, Cork
McCurtain Street Car Park, Mullingar, Westmeath
County Hall Car Park, Off Maudlin Street, Kilkenny City, Kilkenny
Public Car Park, Off South Street, New Ross, Wexford
Irish Rail Plunkett Station, Dock Road, Abbeylands, Waterford
Irish Rail Car Park, Portarlington, Co. Laois
Yeats Tavern & Davis' Restaurant, Sligo-Bundoran Road (N15), Drumcliffe, Sligo
Market Yard Car Park, Main Street, Ballyshannon, Donegal
Public Car Park, Quay Street, Donegal Town, Donegal
New Street (R293), Ballaghadreen, Roscommon


AC units upgraded to DC - 19 of the 50 delivered
None

New FCP
None

AndyBoBandy

Black_Knight wrote: »

Got me thinking....

20-80% in my id4 would take about an hour on the 50kW. That's about €20 for 50kWh including overstay.

At the 150kW unit (I'm going to assume an average of 75kW). That's 40 minutes for 50kWh, and only €18.50.
So the cheaper units may end up being more expensive if you overstay.

This is where the eCars FCP network crumbles....

45 minutes on a 50kW charger will get you at best 37.5kWh, so thats 75% charge in a car with a 50kWh battery, which is grand..

However with the ever increasing amount of cars with larger than 50kW batteries, a 50kW charger is simply not enough anymore (remember bigger cars with bigger batteries consume a lot more energy), and how many 150kW units do we have? 6 (with 1 limited to 75kW?)

The ID.4, with its 77kWh battery in 45 minutes will only take what? a 50% charge before being hit with overstay fee's... that's just madness!!

Then you have these 150kW units, with a single CCS plug on them next to a 50kW unit with a CCS or CHAdeMO, but not both at the same time!!!

the 50kW units are units for 2016's cars, not 2021's cars....

every site with only a 50kW unit (that has aspirations of being a hub, but still isn't earmarked for a 150kW unit - looking at you M1 Castlebellingham) should have at least another 2 50kW units beside the one that's there (or just 2 150kW units with 3CCS & 1 CHAdeMO plug), and overstay limit should be increased to 1 hour.

50kW units have absolutely no place in this day and age at a motorway 'hub' like Athlone, Kells, Kilcullen, Galway Plaza etc..... Should all be 150kW units at a minimum.

its 2021 and there were 2,714 EV's sold in the first quarter of this year alone, and the best eCars can come up with is 3 cars charging simultaneously at any single location (as long as one of them is a Leaf).

Incoherent rant over.

Black_Knight

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

its 2021 and there were 2,714 EV's sold in the first quarter of this year alone, and the best eCars can come up with is 3 cars charging simultaneously at any single location (as long as one of them is a Leaf).

Incoherent rant over.

No, their best solution is we all drive to Monasterevin when we need to charge. An eye watering 4-8 cars can charge at once there. All roads lead to Monasterevin obviously.

AndyBoBandy

Black_Knight wrote: »

An eye watering 4-8 cars can charge at once there. All roads lead to Monasterevin obviously.

8 cars.......... as long as 4 of them are Leaf's

Black_Knight

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

8 cars.......... as long as 4 of them are Leaf's

Could always be an outlander loadbalancing the sh!t outta one! Don't underestimate them

AndyBoBandy

Black_Knight wrote: »

Could always be an outlander loadbalancing the sh!t outta one! Don't underestimate them

True, I guess they could probably make it to Cork/Limerick in full EV mode doing little 20-30km hops from CHAdeMO to CHAdeMO....

kanuseeme

Don't think its chademo only, there is a new crop of phev's from Mercedes have the option for rapid charging on CCS, with a phev your more likely to charge when the opportunity suits rather than every 20 km, for example at a service station stop for tea and a leak,
I think its stupid to spend so much time charging and waiting on a car.

Black_Knight

kanuseeme wrote: »

Don't think its chademo only, there is a new crop of phev's from Mercedes have the option for rapid charging on CCS, with a phev your more likely to charge when the opportunity suits rather than every 20 km, for example at a service station stop for tea and a leak,
I think its stupid to spend so much time charging and waiting on a car.

You'd be surprised.

Mickeroo

With the price of public charging now is it not cheaper to only charge a phev at home and just use petrol when the battery is empty?

slave1

Mickeroo wrote: »

With the price of public charging now is it not cheaper to only charge a phev at home and just use petrol when the battery is empty?

Yep, but some people....