ESB eCars

the_amazing_raisin

ESB and Dublin City council have a few env 200s as well

I think Dublin airport have a fleet of Leaf's they use as support vehicles

An post have a lot of electric delivery vehicles around Dublin, although I've noticed that a lot of the postmen use their own cars and the delivery vans are rentals. Nice bit of greenwashing there

I think we'll see a lot of electric delivery vans in the next few years, the cost savings just can't be denied especially since delivery drivers don't seem capable of going higher than 2nd gear

kanuseeme

Could be worse, say something like a picnic table

eagerv

A PHEV recently pulled in on AC beside me at a new triple head. (Two parking spaces) He plugged in, but I noticed it wasn't charging. When I told him as he was rushing to go he thanked me, telling me he had forgotten his ECars card and was late for work..

Not blaming him, but the system which allows free parking when plugged in..

Kramer

Actually, thinking back to 2019 when we did 45k+ km in the Ioniq, arriving at a charger with another Ioniq already charging was OK. It would never take more than 20/25 minutes max to reack 94%, so you'd never have to wait too long.

Similar with Leaf 24s & 30s.

Leaf 40s could be problematic, as they could take as little as 2/3kW at high SoC. Back then, when charging was free, many locals did take the p1ss.

When the Kona arrived, you could be looking at 80 minutes plus of a wait. Once, a Kona driver had just made the single DC charger before us & was prepared to camp - he told Mrs. K he'd be there for ages & she'd be better to look elsewhere (we were 200km+ from home, at a low SoC & had to limp along to the next 50kW DC, praying it wasn't occupied or broken).

We're back in a similar situation now with most new cars having far bigger batteries. Arriving at a single 50kW DC unit will likely result in a minimum 45 minute wait if someone is there already & you could be stopping again after just 150kms to repeat the process.

If I needed 50kWhs+ to make it home without stopping, I'd happily exceed the 45 minute cap.

Basically, these 50kW DC units are already obsolete & should only be in places like Tesco/hotels/gyms etc., not used as the backbone of intercounty travel here.

ELM327

Yes. 50kW is obsolete for the reasons I mentioned above.
You only get 30kWh delivered which is 100-150km of range. If I'm 200kms from home I'm only stopping once, so absolutely I'm staying longer than 45 mins. I've paid t he overstay fee for this before too.

kanuseeme

Why would you even bother waiting 45 minutes, then to be happy to wait more.

Its something that does not make sense to me.

the_amazing_raisin

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes. 50kW is obsolete for the reasons I mentioned above.
You only get 30kWh delivered which is 100-150km of range. If I'm 200kms from home I'm only stopping once, so absolutely I'm staying longer than 45 mins. I've paid t he overstay fee for this before too.

They're obsolete for motorway services for sure, but there's still places that 50kW units would be useful

Supermarkets and gyms are 2 obvious examples, wait time is probably around an hour so if the overstay was after 90 mins instead of 45 mins then you'd get a good charge in any EV

Of course the trick is there needs to be multiple units, so no-one is waiting ages for a charger. That's the biggest failure of everyone so far except Tesla and Ionity (and the lone ESB hub)

ELM327

kanuseeme wrote: »

Why would you even bother waiting 45 minutes, then to be happy to wait more.

Its something that does not make sense to me.

If I need 50kWh to get home, and after 45 minutes I have 35kWh, I can either stay for another 15mins or I have to stop again.

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

They're obsolete for motorway services for sure, but there's still places that 50kW units would be useful

Supermarkets and gyms are 2 obvious examples, wait time is probably around an hour so if the overstay was after 90 mins instead of 45 mins then you'd get a good charge in any EV

Of course the trick is there needs to be multiple units, so no-one is waiting ages for a charger. That's the biggest failure of everyone so far except Tesla and Ionity (and the lone ESB hub)

Yes, in an ideal world we'd have banks of 50kW where a 1-2 hour stay was acceptable with no overstay fee. However that doesnt exist anywhere.

Black_Knight

Black_Knight wrote: »

I think I can easily grab these metrics on slow chargers (ecars API gonna get a hammering from me). I'll see can I add it in over lunch.

Currently 37 dodgy ports on AC units. 17 are faulted or unavailable, and 20 more have "unknown" status, so I wouldn't trust them.

12 dodge DC ports. 7 of which are faulted or unavailable.

Most i'm sure are in NI

Kramer

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

That's the biggest failure of everyone so far except Tesla and Ionity (and the lone ESB hub)

Two private companies whose raison d'etre is to sell cars. eCars is a publically funded semi state whose sole purpose is to provide charging infrastructure, to enable quick EV adoption.

Allowing themselves to set low targets & then gradually meet them was a mistake & the government's fault.
I've no issue with updating AC22s, or AC to DC upgrades, but the priority should have been meaningful hubs (no, a 50kW DC & 150kW DC, does not a hub make).

This new 2023 date being mooted is just more foolishness. If it takes 4 years to deliver half a dozen 50+150kW sites & few dozen AC to DC upgrades, it doesn't bode well for the "1 million EVs by 2030" mantra.

the_amazing_raisin

Kramer wrote: »

Two private companies whose raison d'etre is to sell cars. eCars is a publically funded semi state whose sole purpose is to provide charging infrastructure, to enable quick EV adoption.

Allowing themselves to set low targets & then gradually meet them was a mistake & the government's fault.
I've no issue with updating AC22s, or AC to DC upgrades, but the priority should have been meaningful hubs (no, a 50kW DC & 150kW DC, does not a hub make).

This new 2023 date being mooted is just more foolishness. If it takes 4 years to deliver half a dozen 50+150kW sites & few dozen AC to DC upgrades, it doesn't bode well for the "1 million EVs by 2030" mantra.

Seems the solution then is to force automakers to build the charging networks since it's in their interest to provide a good service

If you look at the 2 biggest networks in the US:

Tesla Superchargers - Tesla like seeling cars
Electrify America - VW got forced to build it

Unfortunately those companies will install chargers where they're most likely to sell cars, which would explain why the majority of Ionity chargers are in Germany

Kramer

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

Unfortunately those companies will install chargers where they're most likely to sell cars, which would explain why the majority of Ionity chargers are in Germany

Ionity received significant taxpayer funding too remember & then jacked up prices to almost double the European average.
Dedicated private charging providers will also seek to maximise profits by serving the busier & most profitable routes/locations.
They'd prefer 100% utilisation & queues for their chargers rather than spend more on installing more units. It's not their concern if your interurban journey takes an hour longer - they're still getting your money.

We're too small an island to entice in more capital investment IMO & we could well get lumbered with what we have now, for many years to come, while the rest of Europe makes fast headway.

AndyBoBandy

Kramer wrote: »

We're too small an island to entice in more capital investment IMO & we could well get lumbered with what we have now, for many years to come, while the rest of Europe makes fast headway.

The advantage we have though is we are indeed a small country, and we're not getting any bigger, so the right amount of strategically placed hubs should suffice for our needs for the next few years.... Think the '8 car hub' thats going into J14/Mayfield... another 10-12 of those around the country, on the strategic routes, should suffice, and as the demand grows, they increase to 12-16 car hubs and so on...

Them coupled with all these locally placed 50kW DC units should really do us.. for now.

The only time I'm ever giving a thought to the public network is if I'm doing a long 250+km drive somewhere, and I'd imagine it's the same for 80-90% of other EV owners who charge at home.

liamog

Kramer wrote: »

Ionity received significant taxpayer funding too remember & then jacked up prices to almost double the European average.

1/5th of the Ionity network was funded under the EU Ten-T programme, just like many other charging networks across Europe.
eCars received 50% funding for their current expansion.

liamog

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

The advantage we have though is we are indeed a small country, and we're not getting any bigger, so the right amount of strategically placed hubs should suffice for our needs for the next few years.... Think the '8 car hub' thats going into J14/Mayfield... another 10-12 of those around the country, on the strategic routes, should suffice, and as the demand grows, they increase to 12-16 car hubs and so on...

Exactly, the plans includes 16 of these hubs. No info beyond the J14 Mayfield one yet, but I would predict the motorways services that are conspicuously missing a new 150kW charger are likely targets.

McGiver

Kramer wrote:

This new 2023 date being mooted is just more foolishness. If it takes 4 years to deliver half a dozen 50+150kW sites & few dozen AC to DC upgrades, it doesn't bode well for the "1 million EVs by 2030" mantra.

The 1m EVs by 2030 mantra is a LIE.

If it was a serious gov policy we'd see:
1. No VRT rebate reduction for EVs.
2. VAT exemption for EVs.
3. Free parking for EVs nationwide.
4. No motor tax for EVs.
5. Increases in VRT for ICE.
6. Increases in motor tax for ICE.
7. Tenders on fast charging hubs.
8. Subsidies for charger installation by the private and public sector.
9. Regulatory framework around charger installation (mandate, subsidise, cut the red tape).

The government is doing NONE of this, hence I conclude they are f*cking spoofers, scammers and liars. The most ironic is the presence of a "green party" in the government coalition.

/rant

MJohnston

Why use any of those carrots when they can just cut off the supply of ICE cars at source though?

Manufacturers will only be able to sell mostly PHEVs and EVs by 2025, between the EU emission limits and the phasing out of super credits.

And then they’ll have to be ready to be EV-only from 2030 onwards essentially.

That one million EVs is happening regardless of whether any incentives are offered to buyers, they simply won’t be any to buy anything else.

MJohnston

Also I’m fairly sure there are increases in VRT for higher emission cars, given that there’s now an emissions aspect to the VRT formula which wasn’t there before.

Black_Knight

Spotted from the ievoa AGM that Roscommon is noted as a location for a 150+50kW hub. Think that's new news. Buy my God could they venture South!?

Planned: oranmore, Roscommon, Mullingar, Lahey.

the_amazing_raisin

Black_Knight wrote: »

Spotted from the ievoa AGM that Roscommon is noted as a location for a 150+50kW hub. Think that's new news. Buy my God could they venture South!?

Planned: oranmore, Roscommon, Mullingar, Lahey.

Oh yeah, put a 150kW charger where there's already a bunch of HPCs less than 100km away?

If they put a single HPC in Cork, Limerick, Westport, Sligo and Donegal that'd plug 90% of the HPC gaps in the country

Instead they seem to be focused almost entirely on the Midlands, where there's already a bunch of HPCs in Athlone

liamog

You can kind of see why the Midlands is prioritised, most usage of high powered chargers is meant to be mid journey, so sticking them in the middle of an island would seem to make sense

Kramer

liamog wrote: »

most usage of high powered chargers is meant to be mid journey, so sticking them in the middle of an island would seem to make sense

Dublin to Galway, Athlone is good.

Dublin to Belfast, useless
Dublin to Cork, useless.
Dublin to Limerick, useless.
Dublin to Wexford, useless.
Galway to Cork, useless.
Cork to Waterford, useless.

Actually, Galway to Cork, not a single HPC. Limerick to Cork, not a single DC charger in over 10 years, at all :eek:.

MJohnston

Kramer wrote: »

Dublin to Galway, Athlone is good.

Dublin to Belfast, useless
Dublin to Cork, useless.
Dublin to Limerick, useless.
Dublin to Wexford, useless.
Galway to Cork, useless.
Cork to Waterford, useless.

Actually, Galway to Cork, not a single HPC. Limerick to Cork, not a single DC charger in over 10 years, at all :eek:.

Dublin to Limerick was basically as good last year as Dublin to Galway, though I wasn’t differentiating between 50kW and 150 when I made this:

the_amazing_raisin

Kramer wrote: »

Dublin to Galway, Athlone is good.

Dublin to Belfast, useless
Dublin to Cork, useless.
Dublin to Limerick, useless.
Dublin to Wexford, useless.
Galway to Cork, useless.
Cork to Waterford, useless.

Actually, Galway to Cork, not a single HPC. Limerick to Cork, not a single DC charger in over 10 years, at all :eek:.

There's Ionity stations along 3 of those routes

I get your point, ESB aren't exactly winning any awards to thinking their 'hub' locations through

liamog

Kramer wrote: »

Dublin to Galway, Athlone is good.

Dublin to Belfast, useless
Dublin to Cork, useless.
Dublin to Limerick, useless.
Dublin to Wexford, useless.
Galway to Cork, useless.
Cork to Waterford, useless.

Actually, Galway to Cork, not a single HPC. Limerick to Cork, not a single DC charger in over 10 years, at all :eek:.

People don't travel from provincial towns to other provincial towns in Ireland without going via Dublin first? Hasn't 100 years of motorway and railway development told you that?

Kramer

liamog wrote: »

People don't travel from provincial towns to other provincial towns in Ireland without going via Dublin first? Hasn't 100 years of motorway and railway development told you that?

I can't remember, was it Noel Dempsey or another transport minister who proudly announced, a good decade and a half ago, that "all major cities are now joined by a world class, motorway network".

When quizzed on the notable absence of the Cork/Limerick M20, he basically said the same - all travel goes through Dublin :pac:.

Then again, Leo:

In October 2017, it was announced by the then Taoiseach Leo Varadkar that the new motorway (M20) was due to be built by 2023 and projected to cost over €800 million. It was described at the time as one of the biggest infrastructure projects of its kind for many years in Ireland.

Mickeroo

Kramer wrote: »

Dublin to Galway, Athlone is good.

Dublin to Belfast, useless
Dublin to Cork, useless.
Dublin to Limerick, useless.
Dublin to Wexford, useless.
Galway to Cork, useless.
Cork to Waterford, useless.

Actually, Galway to Cork, not a single HPC. Limerick to Cork, not a single DC charger in over 10 years, at all :eek:.

Yeah Galway to Cork is shocking. Putting a hub in Oranmore is no help either, to any route.

Black_Knight

Mickeroo wrote: »

Yeah Galway to Cork is shocking. Putting a hub in Oranmore is no help either, to any route.

Shannon and Limerick arent badly placed. Oranmore is handy when leaving Galway (return leg) going south. Galway city units are a bit off the main road.

Limerick - Cork is being ignored as far as I can see.

Black_Knight

MJohnston wrote: »

Dublin to Limerick was basically as good last year as Dublin to Galway, though I wasn’t differentiating between 50kW and 150 when I made this:

Where are the 2 rapids between Limerick and Cork? And the 4 between Limerick and Galway. From what I see there's 0 between Limerick and Cork, and 2 between Limerick and Galway (Shannon and Ennis).

mfceiling

I know this sounds incredibly simplistic and bash me down as you see fit.

If you drew parallel lines down through the country at 20km distances both vertically and horizontally and as near as is feasible made sure there was a bank of 4 chargers in the centre of that box would that serve the country?