ESB eCars

slave1 · 27-04-2021 6:14pm

kanuseeme wrote: »

No chance, if they do, they would be crazy to depend solely on a charging network to save €1.50 every 100 km they would travel

Cost to drive 100km EV compared to a 4.5l/100km diesel car.

PAYG

Standard*€3.97 Fast*€4.51 High Power*€5.48

**Member

Standard*€3.40 Fast*€3.97 High Power*€4.88

***Diesel

Diesel€5.44

*Based on the driving range of a 40kWh Nissan LEAF (WLTP)**The Membership price does not include €4.60 monthly subscription
***AA Roadwatch January 2021 diesel price average

Why just financial references, there are people out there that will do it for non-financial reasons you know.

liamog · 27-04-2021 6:19pm

ELM327 wrote: »

Because there's a different use case. With DC charging its ecpected to be en route. We don't have enough critical mass to allow the DC chargers be used for 1.5-2hrs that it would take to recharge the newer larger battery cars at 44kW.

Completely agree with you on the different use cases front, and is the point I'm apparently so badly trying to make

I'm not going to post a reply to every discussion of a motorway charging hub, complaining that it's absolutely useless for my usage around Dublin, and shouldn't people just be buying a diesel car if they need to do intercity journeys.

ELM327 · 27-04-2021 6:22pm

slave1 wrote: »

Why just financial references, there are people out there that will do it for non-financial reasons you know.

That's unrealistic though for mass adoption.
Those people are out planting flower boxes with eamon ryan, and probably had leafs since 2010.

Not relevant when we're discussing mass adoption.

slave1 · 27-04-2021 6:37pm

Well I didn't realise we were talking mass adoption exclusively, fact remains there are now EV's out there with 400km+ range that will cover city driving/drop offs for a week or two with a single DC charge and are proper SUV rivals and not Model X pricing, this is a step in the right direction and could be the tipping point for some.

Busman Paddy Lasty · 27-04-2021 8:23pm

liamog wrote: »

No, you're missing the point about these locations. The upgrades to provide DC charging in towns is about serving the market of people who will take on board a decent charge whilst going about their business in a town. Why is there now a moral panic because the town centre car park is served by a 50kW DC charger instead of a 22kW AC charger?

There's plenty of other investment under the programme in online services and ensuring their is adequate on-route charging infrastructure, providing 50kW in towns will help a lot of people. I'm lucky in that I have two 50kW DC chargers within 5km of the house. They are ideal for when you need a boost due to higher than expected daily usage, instead of having to drive 40km to nearest motorway service station, I can drive to Lucan, rapid charge for 30mins and grab a coffee.

The topic of safety isn't necessarily criticism of AC to DC upgrades. There's no moral panic over AC vs DC. If a site is isolated from footfall and dimly lit it's not suitable for either AC or DC if some women are afraid (don't feel comfortable) to use it. Figuratively speaking put yourself in a woman's shoes....... now approx 50% of the population have a strength advantage over you, can batter you, rob you or assault you or even strangle you. Not nice reading but it would bother me greatly if I was a woman.

I think the AC to DC upgrades are great by the way. In almost every case the DC charger will serve more customers than the AC, which tend to have phevs (3.6kW) at them lately as it only adds circa €1/hour cost.

mr potato head · 27-04-2021 8:24pm

liamog wrote: »

No, you're missing the point about these locations. The upgrades to provide DC charging in towns is about serving the market of people who will take on board a decent charge whilst going about their business in a town. Why is there now a moral panic because the town centre car park is served by a 50kW DC charger instead of a 22kW AC charger?

Makes sense to me, driving down to Cork and back to visit my brother leaves me having to do a top-up in Femoy to get to Cashel for the trip home.
A DC in Midleton would let me do a 30 min top up when we go shopping and make it a one-stop trip on the way home.

AC charger doesn't really work as he's too far from town to make it practical of the AC charging speed of the car, can't granny charge as there are no sockets accessible.

liamog · 28-04-2021 1:09am

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

The topic of safety isn't necessarily criticism of AC to DC upgrades. There's no moral panic over AC vs DC. If a site is isolated from footfall and dimly lit it's not suitable for either AC or DC if some women are afraid (don't feel comfortable) to use it. Figuratively speaking put yourself in a woman's shoes....... now approx 50% of the population have a strength advantage over you, can batter you, rob you or assault you or even strangle you. Not nice reading but it would bother me greatly if I was a woman.

Having asked my wife, she'd much prefer a town centre car park than tucked away in the corner of a quiet petrol station. During the expected times she'd be using it, there's more likely to be footfall through the car park. She also mentioned that some of her friends will avoid using petrol stations on their own at night. They're not exactly a mecca of personal safety.

Busman Paddy Lasty · 28-04-2021 7:33am

liamog wrote: »

Having asked my wife, she'd much prefer a town centre car park than tucked away in the corner of a quiet petrol station. During the expected times she'd be using it, there's more likely to be footfall through the car park. She also mentioned that some of her friends will avoid using petrol stations on their own at night. They're not exactly a mecca of personal safety.

Not specifically advocating for petrol stations vs town centre car parks here, I'm not familiar with the Clonmel example above.

A dark isolated spot can exist at all type of site and charge points have a tendency to be placed there whether it be a hotel, town centre car park or petrol station. More likely at a petrol station though. EVM did a video on it and I think he used a hotel property as his example.

ELM327 · 28-04-2021 9:07am

I tell you, I had to charge at a closed petrol station (maxol Navan) at 2am before and it wasnt exactly safe feeling. And I'm a large hairy man!
It's a good point. Tesla make a deal of putting superchargers in sites only where a woman and a child would be feeling safe at all times. Seems ecars just lob the chargers anywhere the landowner agrees (we know this to be fact anyway)

Silent Running · 28-04-2021 9:30am

ELM327 wrote: »

I tell you, I had to charge at a closed petrol station (maxol Navan) at 2am before and it wasnt exactly safe feeling. And I'm a large hairy man!
It's a good point. Tesla make a deal of putting superchargers in sites only where a woman and a child would be feeling safe at all times. Seems ecars just lob the chargers anywhere the landowner agrees (we know this to be fact anyway)

Ah now you're just making stuff up.

I've seen locations where the chargers are round the back of the motorway services building in a dark car park well away from the main parking area, with normal chargers out the front, near the main doors.

ELM327 · 28-04-2021 9:38am

Silent Running wrote: »

Ah now you're just making stuff up.
.

I am not, Elon had said this in the past. Irish locations (the only ones I've been to) are well lit and have obvious CCTV.

Silent Running wrote: »

I've seen locations where the chargers are round the back of the motorway services building in a dark car park well away from the main parking area, with normal chargers out the front, near the main doors.

Silent Running · 28-04-2021 10:02am

ELM327 wrote: »

I am not, Elon had said this in the past. Irish locations (the only ones I've been to) are well lit and have obvious CCTV.

Ah well, if King Elon said it...

:D

Membury services on the M4 eastbound in the UK is a perfect example. It's round the back, poorly lit and not visible from the main car park.

ELM327 · 28-04-2021 10:18am

This isnt the UK :P

zg3409 · 28-04-2021 2:27pm

cannco253 wrote: »

Is eCars just for private individual users or can Companies use it, or do they care either way?

I wonder what would happen if commercial users started charging like in Bjorn's latest video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lNTjJW7HEY

Has anyone seen any trucks or vans using eCars charging points?

We have one full EV airport hotel bus that has its own CCS charger, we have lots of an post vans with depot charging. In NI they already have issues with Amazon delivery vans using public charging networks. Amazon intends doing their own deliveries in Dublin at least, but I don't know if EVs are planned. Presumably drivers will home or depot charge unless low battery mid work day.

A few companies have the Nissan van, lots of company vehicle fleets too, but you rarely see a branded work van public charging. Nothing to stop them.

ELM327 · 28-04-2021 2:28pm

Theres a couple that use the HPC in Kells on a regular basis. A pharmacy and a flower shop. Theres a security company leaf 40 that regularly uses the SCP in Kells too. They are out there

Unfortunately theres no EV option for what I wanted for my side business, a T280/T350 transit LWB or similar, so I'm in a diesel van. Where's the ENV-400! Nissan have the best commercial EVs.

Black_Knight · 28-04-2021 2:52pm

ELM327 wrote: »

Theres a couple that use the HPC in Kells on a regular basis. A pharmacy and a flower shop. Theres a security company leaf 40 that regularly uses the SCP in Kells too. They are out there

Unfortunately theres no EV option for what I wanted for my side business, a T280/T350 transit LWB or similar, so I'm in a diesel van. Where's the ENV-400! Nissan have the best commercial EVs.

Black_Knight · 28-04-2021 2:58pm

AndyBoBandy · 28-04-2021 3:09pm

Black_Knight wrote: »

Same with KilCullen and Galway Plaza. The Chademo plug seems a waste based on this.

Definitely wasted on the 150kW unit anyway....

You dont see the timing of the CHAdeMO use do you? As in can you tell if 2 CHAdeMO's at the same location were both used at the same time?

Black_Knight · 28-04-2021 3:18pm

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Definitely wasted on the 150kW unit anyway....

You dont see the timing of the CHAdeMO use do you? As in can you tell if 2 CHAdeMO's at the same location were both used at the same time?

I can. Only last week I added the breakdown by unit per site, rather than the site as a whole, so I should be able to see when multiples of any socket are in use. I've not got it graphed or aggregated, but in the last week:

Kells:
CHAdeMO - both in use never
CCS - both in use 2 times

Galway Plaza:
CHAdeMO - both in use once
CCS - both in use 10 times

Kilcullen:
CHAdeMO - both in use never
CCS - both in use ~14 times (it's hard to count, for now i'm just counting spikes where the "CHARGING" count on CCS goes to 2 on a 7 day graph)

If you're asking "can you see if the 50kW CHAdeMO was in use when the 70kW was being used" the answer is yes, but it's bloody awkward.

ELM327 · 28-04-2021 3:27pm

Sure we knew that. A 70kW chademo network for the 3 nissan leaf 62 e+ cars that were sold here

ELM327 · 28-04-2021 3:28pm

Black_Knight wrote: »

I can. Only last week I added the breakdown by unit per site, rather than the site as a whole, so I should be able to see when multiples of any socket are in use. I've not got it graphed or aggregated, but in the last week:

Kells:
CHAdeMO - both in use never
CCS - both in use 2 times

Galway Plaza:
CHAdeMO - both in use once
CCS - both in use 10 times

Kilcullen:
CHAdeMO - both in use never
CCS - both in use ~14 times (it's hard to count, for now i'm just counting spikes where the "CHARGING" count on CCS goes to 2 on a 7 day graph)

If you're asking "can you see if the 50kW CHAdeMO was in use when the 70kW was being used" the answer is yes, but it's bloody awkward.

I've used the 70kW chademo in Kells when the 150kW CCS and the 50kW CCS were in use.

the_amazing_raisin · 28-04-2021 3:48pm

I kinda wish ESB would do per minute charging for the HPCs instead of per kWh, it's really discourage slower charging vehicles from hopping the charger when the 50kW is nearby

ELM327 · 28-04-2021 3:51pm

It's already more expensive per kWh

the_amazing_raisin · 28-04-2021 4:02pm

ELM327 wrote: »

It's already more expensive per kWh

But that doesn't really matter if you're charging at 50kW, for 20kWh the price difference is only €1.40 more expensive for a HPC, hardly gonna break the bank and if the 50kW was in use I'd just use the HPC myself

If it was pay per minute at the HPC, then I'd be paying a premium for charging slower and I'd probably wait for the 50kW unit or changeover as soon as it's free

ELM327 · 28-04-2021 5:01pm

How much additional would you charge?
Even at a charge of a fiver, a tenner etc more, if that's the only unit available when I arrive then I'm going to charge there. Imagine explaining to the mrs that theres a charger there but you have to waiut for the cheaper one!!

Sure I'd spend more than that on 2 coffees inside.

I'm a chape ba$tard at the best of times, don't get me wrong, but most folks driving EVs won't have their behavior changed by an incremental 5 euro charge.

Black_Knight · 28-04-2021 5:49pm

ELM327 wrote: »

I've used the 70kW chademo in Kells when the 150kW CCS and the 50kW CCS were in use.

My stats above are per socket, not combined. ie. in the last 7 days, both CHAdeMO sockets have never been in use. I can see how often 3 sockets are in use if you'd like, though I don't see the relevance of it, other than to show the site was fully occupied.

Black_Knight · 28-04-2021 5:52pm

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

I kinda wish ESB would do per minute charging for the HPCs instead of per kWh, it's really discourage slower charging vehicles from hopping the charger when the 50kW is nearby

I just wish ESB will use the stats they have (more accurate than mine) and adapt the network accordingly (swap out the CHAdeMO plug for CCS on the HPC, add more units at busy stations). Or ya know, a 50kW unit in a car park down a maze of 1 way streets in Carlow.

the_amazing_raisin · 28-04-2021 8:10pm

Black_Knight wrote: »

I just wish ESB will use the stats they have (more accurate than mine) and adapt the network accordingly (swap out the CHAdeMO plug for CCS on the HPC, add more units at busy stations). Or ya know, a 50kW unit in a car park down a maze of 1 way streets in Carlow.

I dunno, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a single 8086 processor running their entire backend

I honestly think they decide locations by throwing darts at a map

the_amazing_raisin · 28-04-2021 8:18pm

ELM327 wrote: »

How much additional would you charge?
Even at a charge of a fiver, a tenner etc more, if that's the only unit available when I arrive then I'm going to charge there. Imagine explaining to the mrs that theres a charger there but you have to waiut for the cheaper one!!

Sure I'd spend more than that on 2 coffees inside.

I'm a chape ba$tard at the best of times, don't get me wrong, but most folks driving EVs won't have their behavior changed by an incremental 5 euro charge.

I'd plug in too, but I tend to wait near the car these days when charging (can't sit inside the service station) and if I'm paying by the minute for the HPC then it's in my mind that it's costing more.

If I needed more than 15 mins on the charger, I'd probably take the extra minute to change over to the 50kW once it frees up and open up the HPC

Black_Knight · 29-04-2021 12:07pm

Norton House Car Park, Cork Road, Skibbereen disappeared from the Ecars map today. Don't think it was marked for replacement, and it is/was one of the new Evolve Smart T AC units, so odd if they were putting in DC now, though badly needed down the neck of the woods (not a bad place either, just off the N71). We'll wait and see.

ESB eCars

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