ESB eCars

Busman Paddy Lasty

markpb wrote: »

Another queue at Stillorgan Luas FCP. Sunday morning at 11am, hardly peak times.

I dread travelling at busy times like back holiday weekends in future.

Picked our route last year to have Ionity roughly at half way point. There was a Zoe on the eCars unit when we rolled in. Go Ionity! Add some destination charging and you're sorted.

innrain

An update on the Stillorgan Luas.
The app now displays the text "Please note if the AC and DC are used simultaneously the max output power may reduce due to supply constrains"

I was checking on plugshare how many times I charged there (36) when I had a light bulb moment. The old AC units beside the rapid used to be 2 2x3.6kW and they've replaced them with 2 2x22kW which must have tipped the max power available. Now in fairness being P&R facility AC makes more sense as you have to pay parking for minimum 4 hours.
Anyway this charger joins the list of power constrained chargers which in Dublin are: Finglas, Newland Cross, Templeville. And because the load balancing is not dynamic they for me are unreliable and I would charge elsewhere.

Kramer

liamog wrote: »

By all means eCars may have a lack of vision but its incorrect to claim its being revised downwards.

I'd consider the recategorisation of "hubs" as a downward revision, as I would any extension of the completion date - I've seen 2023 now being mooted somewhere.
Even if the original 2021 date is maintained, what is the plan for 2021 to 2023? We're almost half way through 2021 now - shouldn't there be an ambitious roadmap for the next 2 years, out by now?

We'll obviously get there eventually, but why are we so slow? We know we need the infrastructure - EVs are only going to proliferate. Is it lack of funding?
Well then eCars should be kicking down the line ministers' doors (figuratively speaking - I don't want to fall foul of a moderator again, be infracted & labelled a troll :eek:).

What do we want?
More DC chargers!
When do we want them?
Now!!

:pac:.

the_amazing_raisin

innrain wrote: »

An update on the Stillorgan Luas.
The app now displays the text "Please note if the AC and DC are used simultaneously the max output power may reduce due to supply constrains"

I was checking on plugshare how many times I charged there (36) when I had a light bulb moment. The old AC units beside the rapid used to be 2 2x3.6kW and they've replaced them with 2 2x22kW which must have tipped the max power available. Now in fairness being P&R facility AC makes more sense as you have to pay parking for minimum 4 hours.
Anyway this charger joins the list of power constrained chargers which in Dublin are: Finglas, Newland Cross, Templeville. And because the load balancing is not dynamic they for me are unreliable and I would charge elsewhere.

It's a bit shocking we have grid limited chargers in a city. If we were talking about Malin head then that'd be fair enough, but there shouldn't be a shortage of grid capacity in Dublin

Kramer

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

Picked our route last year to have Ionity roughly at half way point. There was a Zoe on the eCars unit when we rolled in. Go Ionity! Add some destination charging and you're sorted.

It sounds like a long journey is just ocassional for you & luckily enough, there's an Ionity hub on your route. In that case, €0.79/kWh is fine.

Many cover big mileage though & would need public DC charging several times a week. Many wouldn't have Ionity available & if they did, at that price, it wouldn't be financially feasible to run an EV over a diesel.

We need far more proliferation of DC charging & at reasonable rates. The €uropean average might be an idea, but we always want to seem to exceed the average when it comes to taxation, interest rates etc. No, Paddy must always pay more, for less, & be happy with that .

the_amazing_raisin

Kramer wrote: »

It sounds like a long journey is just ocassional for you & luckily enough, there's an Ionity hub on your route. In that case, €0.79/kWh is fine.

Many cover big mileage though & would need public DC charging several times a week. Many wouldn't have Ionity available & if they did, at that price, it wouldn't be financially feasible to run an EV over a diesel.

We need far more proliferation of DC charging & at reasonable rates. The €uropean average might be an idea, but we always want to seem to exceed the average when it comes to taxation, interest rates etc. No, Paddy must always pay more, for less, & be happy with that .

If anyone is using Ionity regularly then they should sign up to one of the paid plans, they work out pretty well after a couple of thousand kilometres.

I think 1 roundtrip from Dublin to Cork each month is enough to make the paid plan worthwhile

liamog

Where did your expectations come from, remember this what was announced and they originally indicated 3 years so end of 2022, though I believer recent communication indicates end of 2023 instead

The key elements include six high speed charging hubs on motorways capable of charging eight vehicles simultaneously;
16 high speed charging hubs capable of charging four vehicles simultaneously;
additional high power chargers at 34 current 50 kW locations;
upgrading over 50 22 kW chargers to 50 kW,
and replacing up to 264 locations with 528 charge points at the pre-existing pilot grade of 22 kW to next generation high reliability models.

The first of the 6 8 car hubs is being installed in J14 Mayfield.
The bit that is in question for me is the 4 car hubs versus HPC + 50kW, I don't know if eCars are treating those sites as a 4 car hub under what was originally promised or as expansion of the HPC+50kW sites.

liamog

Kramer wrote: »

We need far more proliferation of DC charging & at reasonable rates. The €uropean average might be an idea,

Fastned charge 59c/kWh without a membership, you pay €11.99/month and can charge at 35c/kWh.

eCars rates are pretty cheap by comparison

the_amazing_raisin

liamog wrote: »

Where did your expectations come from, remember this what was announced and they originally indicated 3 years so end of 2022, though I believer recent communication indicates end of 2023 instead


The first of the 6 8 car hubs is being installed in J14 Mayfield.
The bit that is in question for me is the 4 car hubs versus HPC + 50kW, I don't know if eCars are treating those sites as a 4 car hub under what was originally promised or as expansion of the HPC+50kW sites.

I believe there was an IEVOA meeting with the ESB last year which clarified that the HPC+50kW pairs is what ESB considers a 4 car hub

When the plan was published back in 2019, I was all for it on the face of it. My main issue is that the ESB based those plans on a far lower market share of EVs than have been sold in the past year

Based on that, they should be looking for ways of accelerating their plans, but instead are delaying the completion date. Also, as Kramer pointed out, there's no sign of a plan beyond the current one. Are they going to stop all installations for another few years after the current plan is eventually complete?

Because ESB operate an effective monopoly on public charging in Ireland, they're under no pressure to improve. In the UK and other countries there are multiple charging providers who are competing with one another and as such provide a better customer experience

liamog

So then I think the question becomes, are the current HPC+50kW included in the planned number of 16 4 Car hubs versus the 34 additional HPC at current 50kW locations.
So effectively they were saying by the end of the programme there would be 50 sites with a 50kW DC and HPC, of which 16 are net new?

I was under the impression that the distinction would be sites like Castlebellingham and Lusk on the M1, where instead of install 4 of the chargers they are installing at Mayfield, they'd do 2 on each side of the road.

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

Because ESB operate an effective monopoly on public charging in Ireland, they're under no pressure to improve. In the UK and other countries there are multiple charging providers who are competing with one another and as such provide a better customer experience

I don't think its the lack of opportunity to compete that's the problem, it's the fact that a commercial DC charging operator would end up with about 6 sites in Ireland if they were only going for ones that make sense financially.

Black_Knight

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

I believe there was an IEVOA meeting with the ESB last year which clarified that the HPC+50kW pairs is what ESB considers a 4 car hub

When the plan was published back in 2019, I was all for it on the face of it. My main issue is that the ESB based those plans on a far lower market share of EVs than have been sold in the past year

Based on that, they should be looking for ways of accelerating their plans, but instead are delaying the completion date. Also, as Kramer pointed out, there's no sign of a plan beyond the current one. Are they going to stop all installations for another few years after the current plan is eventually complete?

Because ESB operate an effective monopoly on public charging in Ireland, they're under no pressure to improve. In the UK and other countries there are multiple charging providers who are competing with one another and as such provide a better customer experience

But don't ecars say the 150kW + 50kW "hubs" can only charge 3 cars at a time?

Replacing units ecars can do. Increasing overall units, nope. No 8 car hubs yet. No 4 car hubs yet. And 6? 3 car hubs (I might have forgotten 1 or 2). Huge ground to make up to deliver on time and on target.

liamog

The hub at Mayfield is under constructions, and we have had rollouts of new sites.

Kramer

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

It's a bit shocking we have grid limited chargers in a city. If we were talking about Malin head then that'd be fair enough

Nope, nothing there - I looked.

liamog wrote: »

eCars rates are pretty cheap by comparison

I'm not complaining about eCars rates. There's a strong case to be made that they are artificially being kept low, for whatever reason.
I was referring, as you know, to Ionity's extortionate €0.79/kWh rate. That's just too high to entice anyone to switch from a diesel. €60+ to fill an ID.4 is nuts.

Sure, 90% of charging is at home......yes, we know all that.......but I bet if Tesla charged $1/kWh (Ionity €uro equalivent), too many high milers wouldn't buy Teslas.

What use is a slightly reduced kWh Ionity rate, for a recurring monthly subscription, if there isn't one where you need it? There isn't a single Ionity hub from Sligo to Cork, through Galway, Limerick etc. Not one on route from Wexford to Kerry, Galway to Belfast.
They are finished here so there never will be - they won't be profitable.
Ionity in Ireland isn't a whole lot of use to many & that's fine - private company wants to make money by selling cars. They're not a charging provider here like eCars or EasyGo.

Anyway, it's disappointing what we've achieved (very little) & I'm not optimistic it'll improve at the pace it should - as Mando would say "it's the way" .

liamog

Kramer wrote: »

I'm not complaining about eCars rates. There's a strong case to be made that they are artificially being kept low, for whatever reason.
I was referring, as you know, to Ionity's extortionate €0.79/kWh rate. That's just too high to entice anyone to switch from a diesel. €60+ to fill an ID.4 is nuts.

I'm not entirely sure what relevance Ionity's oft discussed business model is to the eCars network, perhaps you were looking for this thread https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058002492

The only network that competes with eCars here on a like for like basis is EasyGo, they probably need a big hit of capital to expand their network offering.

the_amazing_raisin

Black_Knight wrote: »

But don't ecars say the 150kW + 50kW "hubs" can only charge 3 cars at a time?

Replacing units ecars can do. Increasing overall units, nope. No 8 car hubs yet. No 4 car hubs yet. And 6? 3 car hubs (I might have forgotten 1 or 2). Huge ground to make up to deliver on time and on target.

Pretty sure they can charge 4 cars in parallel, but you can only fit 3 around the chargers due to parking spaces

ESB are presumably banking on someone turning up with an electric motorbike to make it a 4 vehicle hub

Kramer

liamog wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure what relevance Ionity's oft discussed business model is to the eCars network, perhaps you were looking for this thread https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058002492

Well, Busman Paddy Lasty posted this:

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

Picked our route last year to have Ionity roughly at half way point. There was a Zoe on the eCars unit when we rolled in. Go Ionity!

I replied basically saying good for him, it worked well for him, but it could be expensive for others.

Kramer wrote: »

It sounds like a long journey is just ocassional for you & luckily enough, there's an Ionity hub on your route. In that case, €0.79/kWh is fine....

We need far more proliferation of DC charging & at reasonable rates. The €uropean average might be an idea

You replied with pricing from a single continental supplier & said eCars was quite cheap, by comparison.

liamog wrote: »

Fastned charge 59c/kWh without a membership, you pay €11.99/month and can charge at 35c/kWh.

eCars rates are pretty cheap by comparison

I replied, agreeing eCars rates were inexpensive by comparison.

Kramer wrote: »

I'm not complaining about eCars rates. There's a strong case to be made that they are artificially being kept low, for whatever reason.
I was referring, as you know, to Ionity's extortionate €0.79/kWh rate.

But the poster stopped at a single eCars DC charger - it was occupied & he used the available Ionity hub. Should you have directed him to the Ionity thread too?
So I'm in some way wrong here, how?

the_amazing_raisin

Kramer wrote: »

Nope, nothing there - I looked.

No inter county travel until May 10th

I'm not complaining about eCars rates. There's a strong case to be made that they are artificially being kept low, for whatever reason.
I was referring, as you know, to Ionity's extortionate €0.79/kWh rate. That's just too high to entice anyone to switch from a diesel. €60+ to fill an ID.4 is nuts.

Sure, 90% of charging is at home......yes, we know all that.......but I bet if Tesla charged $1/kWh (Ionity €uro equalivent), too many high milers wouldn't buy Teslas.

What use is a slightly reduced kWh Ionity rate, for a recurring monthly subscription, if there isn't one where you need it? There isn't a single Ionity hub from Sligo to Cork, through Galway, Limerick etc. Not one on route from Wexford to Kerry, Galway to Belfast.
They are finished here so there never will be - they won't be profitable.
Ionity in Ireland isn't a whole lot of use to many & that's fine - private company wants to make money by selling cars. They're not a charging provider here like eCars or EasyGo.

I'd happily pay Elon €1/kWh if I was allowed use the superchargers

Anyway, it's disappointing what we've achieved (very little) & I'm not optimistic it'll improve at the pace it should - as Mando would say "it's the way" .

+1000 points for getting a Mandalorian quote in there

liamog

I'm trying to steer the conversation back to discussing eCars, a post almost entirely devoted to discussing the rates that Ionity charge is better suited to the Ionity thread.

zg3409

News from NI on ESB chargers
https://evani.uk/progress-by-summer-esb-meeting-q2-2021/

liamog

zg3409 wrote: »

News from NI on ESB chargers
https://evani.uk/progress-by-summer-esb-meeting-q2-2021/

That's great news, the main one that affects me is the charger in Newry, would be nice for that to updated with a CCS plug.

Fraggle00

zg3409 wrote: »

News from NI on ESB chargers
https://evani.uk/progress-by-summer-esb-meeting-q2-2021/

I passed through Derry (on essential travel etc.) over the weekend and the charging situation was dire. Three ESB chargers wouldn't work before I found where I could charge.

Black_Knight

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

Pretty sure they can charge 4 cars in parallel, but you can only fit 3 around the chargers due to parking spaces

ESB are presumably banking on someone turning up with an electric motorbike to make it a 4 vehicle hub

I would of thought that too, (CCS and CHAdeMO on the 150kW, CCS or CHAdeMO on the 50kW + a Zoe or someone desperate for charge they use the type 2). But ecars Anna said 3 max

Kramer

Black_Knight wrote: »

I would of thought that too, (CCS and CHAdeMO on the 150kW, CCS or CHAdeMO on the 50kW + a Zoe or someone desperate for charge they use the type 2). But ecars Anna said 3 max

Physically getting 4 cars plugged in simultaneously is impossible though - certain at the two 150kW/50kW "hubs" I've been at.
Even getting three cars hooked up could be impossible, if the third is a rear wing ported Ioniq for example.

Isn't there just 3 spaces designated? I can't remember exactly.

Kramer

Galway Plaza - there was a Model S using the right space (from the picture perspective) with a CHAdeMO adapter when I arrived. It had moved when I got back out with my coffee.
That was the only way to get the cable to reach a Model 3's rear port. I'd say an Ioniq would have been just too far with the short, stiff cables.
Another EV had pulled up to the 50kW DC just before I left.

The physical layout itself is problematic too.

TitianGerm

Black_Knight wrote: »

Odd. Unless someone reset the unit.

I tried the Enniscothy unit again today and it wouldn't charge at all. Got a warning that it was failing to connect.

Went to Ionity in Gorey then and the car charged fine (6km/min but I arrived with a decent amount in the battery) so must be some issue with the eCars unit?

eagerv

TitianGerm wrote: »

I tried the Enniscothy unit again today and it wouldn't charge at all. Got a warning that it was failing to connect.

Went to Ionity in Gorey then and the car charged fine (6km/min but I arrived with a decent amount in the battery) so must be some issue with the eCars unit?

Sounds like a problem with the unit.

You don't have a charge schedule set up in your car for your home? If so might be worth clearing it, the car might think it's at your house..

TitianGerm

eagerv wrote: »

Sounds like a problem with the unit.

You don't have a charge schedule set up in your car for your home? If so might be worth clearing it, the car might think it's at your house..

Nope I just start a charge with the app.

eagerv

TitianGerm wrote: »

Nope I just start a charge with the app.

On the We Charge app or the Ecars app?

Edit. Forget what I said, I thought you meant you started fast charge with app...

TitianGerm

eagerv wrote: »

On the We Charge app or the Ecars app?

Edit. Forget what I said, I thought you meant you started fast charge with app...

No I use the VW card to start a charge on public units. I start the charge at home using the We Connect app.

eagerv

TitianGerm wrote: »

No I use the VW card to start a charge on public units. I start the charge at home using the We Connect app.

Possibly the new unit isn't yet registered on the VW card.