ESB eCars

Black_Knight

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

The future of motorway service stations

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TVohXHjLro

Fixed (Just put the 4TVohXHjLro part in youtube tags)

cannco253

Isn't it time for another "what's happening at J14" round of posts?

innrain

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

The future of motorway service stations


Coming soon to every country in the world, except Ireland... :rolleyes:

I have seen it last night. What can I say: impressive.

Let's roll the excuses: We're a small island..., they are very rich.., is economically unfeasible..., 99% charges @ home ..., did I miss something ?

liamog

innrain wrote: »

I have seen it last night. What can I say: impressive.

Let's roll the excuses: We're a small island..., they are very rich.., is economically unfeasible..., 99% charges @ home ..., did I miss something ?

54% of new vehicle sales were EV in 2020 in Norway.
4.5% of new vehicle sales were EV in 2020 in Ireland.

We're a few years from a station like that being viable in Ireland.

the_amazing_raisin

liamog wrote: »

54% of new vehicle sales were EV in 2020 in Norway.
4.5% of new vehicle sales were EV in 2020 in Ireland.

We're a few years from a station like that being viable in Ireland.

Profit for service stations has always been on the food and drink, not the fuel. Same will likely apply to EVs as ICE cars

We've seen again and again that good charging infrastructure drives EV sales

Case in point, 54% EV sales in Norway in 2020

Even with half the chargers it would still beat anything we've got at the moment. Just the level of service around the chargers (shelter, bins, vacuum) is miles ahead

The typical DC charger in most service stations is shoved in the back like they're ashamed of it

liamog

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

Profit for service stations has always been on the food and drink, not the fuel. Same will likely apply to EVs as ICE cars

Of course, but in order for the you to profit from your customers they have to exist in the first place. You wouldn't make a profit on your coffee counter if you 3 people an hour stopping for a charge.

bodgerfederer

"Profit for service stations has always been on the food and drink, not the fuel."

With this in mind and freed from the constraints of having to trade in oil, it would make sense for more upmarket service stations to appear.

there's gorgeous franchise free farm shop food service station in Gloucester - something like that with a bank of chargers and you'd never think of going elsewhere.
https://www.gloucesterservices.com/

mr potato head

Unfortunately it's a loop... infrastructure is delayed because there isn't the market volume and people don't adopt EVs because they perceive there is no infrastructure

Probably needs some form of support/incentive to break, but also by the time planning and construction happens there is likely to be a better market size.

boccy23

liamog wrote: »

54% of new vehicle sales were EV in 2020 in Norway.
4.5% of new vehicle sales were EV in 2020 in Ireland.

We're a few years from a station like that being viable in Ireland.

Are Norwegian's paying for Electricity now? They definitely didn't before. Work colleague of mine said that to thaw their drives, all of them had electric heat mats as the electricity was free, they didn't care about usage.

the_amazing_raisin

liamog wrote: »

Of course, but in order for the you to profit from your customers they have to exist in the first place. You wouldn't make a profit on your coffee counter if you 3 people an hour stopping for a charge.

I agree, but Circle K was smart and made a combined charging/petrol station

Other side has petrol pumps, best of both worlds

the_amazing_raisin

boccy23 wrote: »

Are Norwegian's paying for Electricity now? They definitely didn't before. Work colleague of mine said that to thaw their drives, all of them had electric heat mats as the electricity was free, they didn't care about usage.

I don't know about home electricity but they definitely pay for public charging in most places

I believe some uses of electricity are free in Norway, but not all

For example I remember reading that there's a bunch of free to use electric sockets in public parking spaces. ICE cars plug in to them to preheat the engine in winter otherwise it wouldn't start

boccy23

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

I don't know about home electricity but they definitely pay for public charging in most places

I believe some uses of electricity are free in Norway, but not all

For example I remember reading that there's a bunch of free to use electric sockets in public parking spaces. ICE cars plug in to them to preheat the engine in winter otherwise it wouldn't start

If the home charging was free, then it's easy to see why the EV Sales would rocket.

the_amazing_raisin

boccy23 wrote: »

If the home charging was free, then it's easy to see why the EV Sales would rocket.

True, but home charging isn't exactly prohibitively expensive to begin with here.

In a year both our EVs use about €250 in electricity from home charging. That's doing pre-covid mileage, it's a good bit less now

You could spend that in month fueling 2 diesel cars doing the same distance

innrain

liamog wrote: »

54% of new vehicle sales were EV in 2020 in Norway.
4.5% of new vehicle sales were EV in 2020 in Ireland.

We're a few years from a station like that being viable in Ireland.

Yes forgot this. But how did they get here? What is the biggest hurdle the ICE drivers mention when saying the don't switch to EV? Is it the infrastructure? How many MW are we adding to the newtork per year?

ELM327

boccy23 wrote: »

Are Norwegian's paying for Electricity now? They definitely didn't before. Work colleague of mine said that to thaw their drives, all of them had electric heat mats as the electricity was free, they didn't care about usage.

It was totally free up to about 7-8 years ago, now it's still cheap but not free.

liamog

innrain wrote: »

Yes forgot this. But how did they get here? What is the biggest hurdle the ICE drivers mention when saying the don't switch to EV? Is it the infrastructure? How many MW are we adding to the newtork per year?

They exempted EVs from some very high taxes on the import of vehicles. If we rolled out a similar system a Ford Fiesta would double in price overnight.

boccy23

It's also hard to compare the two countries based on their cost of living, tax rates, Oil money, our personal tax rates, USC, GDPs etc etc.

slave1

boccy23 wrote: »

It's also hard to compare the two countries based on their cost of living, tax rates, Oil money, our personal tax rates, USC, GDPs etc etc.

Ireland is actually richer than Norway, ranked 3rd in the World in GDP terms for 2020.
Norway is the second most expensive country in Europe 2021 when you look at Cost of Living, Ireland is 6th.
Norway taxed higher than Ireland.
Norway's National Debt is $117k per Capita versus Ireland's $49k

Logic therefore dictates we should be ahead of Norway from an economic perspective, hard to believe!!

boccy23

As I say, there are statistics, statistics and damn lies.

I assume if we take out Google, Facebook, Pharma etc., it would have a huge effect on the GDP.

But you are correct, that we should be doing a lot more. This is the basis of the issue. The Government has not driven the infrastructure or the incentives as they should have done.

cannco253

Norway has its SWF with over $1.3 trillion in assets

https://www.nbim.no/en/

liamog

They added bus lane running for EVs early on, so all the rich people bought EVs to cheat on their commute.
This lead to political pressure to build a geographically good charging network.
The tax incentives meant cost parity was met much earlier than it will be here. So now for normal people you save money by purchasing an EV.
Leading to today, there is now commercial pressure to provide interurban charging services.

markpb

liamog wrote: »

They added bus lane running for EVs early on

This has to be the dumbest idea I've ever heard of. I'm all for EVs, everyone should own one, but the idea that we should be allowed to drive in bus lanes thereby completely negating the whole point of bus lanes is crazy.

fafy

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

True, but home charging isn't exactly prohibitively expensive to begin with here.

In a year both our EVs use about €250 in electricity from home charging. That's doing pre-covid mileage, it's a good bit less now

You could spend that in month fueling 2 diesel cars doing the same distance

€250 to run one EV for 12 months ?, thats impressive, what kind of annual km’s are we talking here ?

the_amazing_raisin

fafy wrote: »

€250 to run one EV for 12 months ?, thats impressive, what kind of annual km’s are we talking here ?

2 EVs, ID.4 and a Leaf. The Leaf comes in just over €100, the ID.4 costs more due to being a heavier and less aerodynamic car, but it's possible I could do a lot better than the efficiency I estimated (22.5kWh/100km)

Based on 12,500km per year which is what we were both doing pre-covid

Now we're down to something like 6000km per year, not gonna be long before we're paying more in servicing than electricity :eek:

the_amazing_raisin

markpb wrote: »

This has to be the dumbest idea I've ever heard of. I'm all for EVs, everyone should own one, but the idea that we should be allowed to drive in bus lanes thereby completely negating the whole point of bus lanes is crazy.

Yeah I gotta agree with that one, don't see any way that couldn't backfire

Havings said that, I also think taxis shouldn't be allowed to use bus lanes unless they're carrying passengers

I also think that Dublin should introduce emissions charges, pedestrianise large sections of the inner city, extend the Luas out to the north and west of the city, and build dedicated cycling corridiors and park and cycle facilities in the inner suburbs

So I'm probably not the best person to ask

liamog

markpb wrote: »

This has to be the dumbest idea I've ever heard of. I'm all for EVs, everyone should own one, but the idea that we should be allowed to drive in bus lanes thereby completely negating the whole point of bus lanes is crazy.

As a concept it's not great, as an incentive it's highly effective. The financial motivation is all well and good, the ability to cruise past a queue of traffic can make a real difference to an individuals daily free time.

Even with todays numbers, there aren't enough EVs on the road that it would negatively affect buses, but it could never work here because bus lane enforcement doesn't exist meaning gormless drivers would just follow every ID.3.

innrain

Stopped @J14 to take some pictures. There is nothing visible to report except that there were 2 cars charging an ID4 and a Niro one on the Type2 and a third one waiting.

AndyBoBandy

Looks like it’s ready to go and all they need are the actual units…

the_amazing_raisin

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Looks like it’s ready to go and all they need are the actual units…

Coming in 2022

liamog

Mad houses in Coynes Cross today, we arrived to the charger, another Mini SE was had been plugged in for around 5 mins, I figured we'd be in for a 30 minute wait.
Unfortunately the person had a problem with their charging app and couldn't end their charge. They were on hold waiting for an eCars operator, in the meantime I helped them log in via the eCars website, they were able to do so and finished their charge at 44:29.

Whilst we were waiting there were a lot of EVs show up, first was an MG5 EV, then an I3S. By this point I'd started my charge and went for a BK. Within 5 minutes I'm back, an Ioniq had shown up and connected to the FastAC whilst waiting for the CCS, there was a Zoe waiting.
Then an e-Golf arrived, and finally a pre-facelift Leaf. Sitting in the car eating my BK we saw another I3 and a facelift Leaf pull into the services and drive straight off. I think others have mentioned that Coynes is a very busy spot, hopefully it's one earmarked for a future hub.