ESB eCars

Black_Knight

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Let’s not kid ourselves here…… we all know it’s going to be 4 CCS & 4 CHAdeMO…….

I’d bet my car on it.

Ditto. "In the interest of balance" or some BS like that they'll keep it 50:50 rather than use the metrics they have to guide them.

AndyBoBandy

Black_Knight wrote: »

Ditto. "In the interest of balance" or some BS like that they'll keep it 50:50 rather than use the metrics they have to guide them.

Your metrics would be more than sufficient for them to decide on a 6/2 split, while leaving the old triple head as a buffer for whoever wants/needs it...

cannco253

eCars FB

We have upgraded the AC standard 22kW charger in Blanchardstown to a new, more reliable unit.

�� You can find it at Mill Road, Blanchardstown (Charger ID C8YK0)

McGiver

cannco253 wrote:

I wonder if they were ID.3 owners using up the free credits they got last year? What EVs were using Ionity out of curiosity?

Nope.

Free DC 50 - ENiro, Hyundai Ioniq
Ionity - Audi Etron, Tesla M3, BMW i3, Ioniq, Opel mokka-e

McGiver

liamog wrote:

FCPs should never be put on motorways.

You're nitpicking terminology here...

In 2021 FCP = 150+ kW DC. That's what I meant.

liamog wrote:

The hierarchy is straightforward, 150kW+ for motorways and interurbans, 50kW for town and suburbs, 11kW AC for destination and overnight charging.

Motorways - 150 kW+ AND 50 kW collocated - see Germany, Norway, Austria for that in real life. The 50 kW DC is neccesary as a backup. And 50 kW DC is better than nothing even for 100 kWh+ cars while 150+ kW (well ecars "150" is in fact 75 kW) chargers are occupied. And older cars are fine with 50 kW too.

Petrol stations/towns/suburbs - 50 kW DC is not the most suitable, hard do anything in 20-30 minutes (shopping), 22 kW DC would be more suitable. Btw any sort of DC isn't that widespread in this setting in the more developed EV markets. Unlikely we'll see a massive DC deployment in this setting in Ireland. Unless wireless charging becomes cheap and widespread.

Cities, towns, malls, carparks, hotels - should be littered with 11 kW AC (see Netherlands, Norway, Austria), I agree. 22 kW AC is a waste of power.

liamog wrote:

The infra has to be built for the next 100,000 cars not the current fleet of slow DC charging vehicles.

I think we all agree on that. But can you remind me of any project associated with the Irish Government that successfully built any infrastructure with this kind of long term planning incorporated in the design?....

liamog

McGiver wrote: »

You're nitpicking terminology here...

In 2021 FCP = 150+ kW DC. That's what I meant.

Your on a thread discussing an operator that uses the term FCP to refer to a Fast Charge Point which they define as ~50kW. They refer to their 150kW chargers as a High Power Chargers (HPC). If you were discussing a network in the UK a Fast Charge Point refers to a charge point that is capable of 32A charging instead of 16A.

The terminology is important, new 50kW chargers should not be installed anymore on motorways and interurbans. eCars should be installing distributed chargers (like it appears they are doing at J14 Mayfield) where the charge point and charger are decoupled. There are a few different options available ranging from the current 2x75kW units eCars have installed, to ones such as the Kempower units that consist of multiple 40kW units. That way it doesn't matter which plug an I3 connects to, the other charging plugs can take advantage of the capacity made available by its lower charging requirement.

McGiver wrote: »

Petrol stations/towns/suburbs - 50 kW DC is not the most suitable, hard do anything in 20-30 minutes (shopping), 22 kW DC would be more suitable. Btw any sort of DC isn't that widespread in this setting in the more developed EV markets. Unlikely we'll see a massive DC deployment in this setting in Ireland. Unless wireless charging becomes cheap and widespread.

We actually covered that in an old thread, I found multiple examples of DC charging stations located in towns in Norway and The Netherlands. Turns out the mature markets are heading that way, as are Tesla with their lower power urban superchargers. Remember your talking about a 50kW charger for a car with a 50kWh+ battery. Not providing them for 24kWh Leafs.

MJohnston

I'm going to come back to a point I made a while ago: I genuinely think long-term planning as it relates to charging infrastructure would largely mean not investing a lot in charging infrastructure yet.

The problem imo is that future-proofed charging infrastructure, in terms of charging rate, is going to cost disproportionately more now than it will in 5 years or so.

liamog

MJohnston wrote: »

The problem imo is that future-proofed charging infrastructure, in terms of charging rate, is going to cost disproportionately more now than it will in 5 years or so.

The Fastned view is that it makes sense to do the ground work now, things like designing the grid connection and transformers which will be required for a long time, but then under provision the actual charging equipment so that you don't end up wasting money on obsolete tech. You want to balance the level of service required. Imagine if eCars had rolled out large 6 50kW chargers at each of the motorway services in 2017. Right now we'd probably have people demanding they replace them with two 150kW units so they can charge their ID.4 quickly enough to move on. Next year they'll be an Ioniq 5 owner demanding it's replace with a single 300kW so they can do the same.

MJohnston

Yeah, putting the literal groundwork in makes sense, for sure.

It’s a tough cookie though, there are so many concurrently rapidly advancing pieces of the technology puzzle and no slowdown in sight.

the_amazing_raisin

MJohnston wrote: »

Yeah, putting the literal groundwork in makes sense, for sure.

It’s a tough cookie though, there are so many concurrently rapidly advancing pieces of the technology puzzle and no slowdown in sight.

You can do a bit both, for example even just putting down underground ducting and pedastals for chargers makes installation work down the line much easier

Even if the future is battery swaps or mobile robotic chargers, it'll take a while for them to catch on and DC chargers will be around for a while since they'll be relatively cheaper than any new technologies

MJohnston

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

You can do a bit both, for example even just putting down underground ducting and pedastals for chargers makes installation work down the line much easier

Even if the future is battery swaps or mobile robotic chargers, it'll take a while for them to catch on and DC chargers will be around for a while since they'll be relatively cheaper than any new technologies

Aye, but what I meant was that even if we stick with DC chargers, you have rapid improvements in charge point tech, rapid improvements in battery tech, rapid improvements in onboard charger tech, etc.

the_amazing_raisin

MJohnston wrote: »

Aye, but what I meant was that even if we stick with DC chargers, you have rapid improvements in charge point tech, rapid improvements in battery tech, rapid improvements in onboard charger tech, etc.

I dunno, I feel like we're going to hit a saturation point for passenger cars soon. Something between 60-80kWh batteries will probably be standard

Charging speeds will improve, but you'll be limited by battery size and chemistry

I think what will push the envelope will be large SUVs and pickup trucks and then vans and good vehicles/buses. They'll need much larger batteries and hence more powerful chargers

I'd say the current crop of 350kW chargers could handle an F150 Lightning with 150kWh battery pretty well

But certainly something like a HGV with a 500-700kWh battery isn't going to be feasible with a 350kW charger

JohnC.

While ESB struggle to come up with something that can use the title of hub, Audi develop a 6 car hub, which is mobile.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/audi-has-mobile-electric-car-charging-plans-1.4576923

Black_Knight

Black_Knight wrote: »

April Update
CCS/CHAdeMO split
My stats say, over the last 2 weeks:
CHAdeMO has been occupied 40.6% of the time. (7.41 weeks of use)
CCS the other 59.4% of the time (10.86 weeks of use)

Unit counts
131 Fast charge units installed (Up 6)
533 Slow charge AC units installed (down 10 - all are AC-DC replacements, some were 2 single socket AC units being replaced with DC)
268 of the newer 22kW AC units are now in place.
131 of the old units yet to be replaced, and 15 of those single socket AC units to be replaced too.

AC updates to the new Evolve Smart T unit
Dock Road, Dunmore East, Waterford
Wolfe Tone Square, Tubbercurry, Sligo
Public Car Park, Strand Road, Falcarragh, Donegal
Public Car Park, Nailors Row, Buncrana, Donegal
Main Street, Belmullet, Mayo
Church Street, Wicklow Town, Wicklow

AC units upgraded to DC - 29 of the 50 delivered Bit of a vague number, this is 29 of those units installed, but they're being installed at the "hubs" too.
Blackhall Car Park, Off Mount Street, Mullingar, Westmeath
Marian Hall Car Park, Off William Street, Birr, Offaly
Garda Station Car Park, Off Lymington Road, Enniscorthy, Wexford
Barrack Lane, New Ross, Wexford
Public Car Park, Vicar Street, Tuam, Galway
Market Street, Carrickmacross, Monaghan
Fire Brigade Car Park, New Road, Kinsale, Cork
Dolphin's Place, Youghal, Cork

New FCP
None

May Update
CCS/CHAdeMO split
My stats say, over the last 2 weeks:
CHAdeMO has been occupied 38.6% of the time. (9.20 weeks of use)
CCS the other 61.4% of the time (14.65 weeks of use)

Unit counts
133 Fast charge units installed (Up 2)
531 Slow charge AC units installed (down 2 - all are AC-DC replacements, some were 2 single socket AC units being replaced with DC)

272 of the newer 22kW AC units are now in place.
127 of the old units yet to be replaced, and 15 of those single socket AC units to be replaced too.

AC updates to the new Evolve Smart T unit - Seems I might be missing a couple of these (blanch didn't pop up for me). My best guess is some AC units are being reused in new locations, when their original site gets a DC upgrade (Blanch unit was originally in Skibbereen afaik)
Town Hall Car Park, Off Barrow Track, Carlow Town, Carlow
Quinsborough Road, Bray, Wicklow
Bachelor's Walk, Wicklow, Wicklow
Hollybank Road, Drumcondra, Dublin 9
Mill Road, Blanchardstown, Dublin

AC units upgraded to DC - 31 of the 50 delivered Bit of a vague number, this is 31 of those units installed, but they're being installed at the "hubs" too.
Norton House Car Park, Cork Road, Skibbereen, Co. Cork
Off Haggard Street, Trim, Meath

New FCP
None

peposhi

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Let’s not kid ourselves here…… we all know it’s going to be 4 CCS & 4 CHAdeMO…….

I’d bet my car on it.

Ready to part with 75% of your car lol

the_amazing_raisin

peposhi wrote: »

Ready to part with 75% of your car lol

Dear lord, that hub looks well thought out

Are you sure it's an ESB hub? Maybe they put the wrong company logo on the chargers

AndyBoBandy

peposhi wrote: »

Ready to part with 75% of your car lol

Nice photoshop skills…..

Black_Knight

peposhi wrote: »

Ready to part with 75% of your car lol

Wait so it's 3 HPC and 1 ye Olde 50kW unit? Wonder will they keep the old triple head too?

So 8 cars can charge, but 1 of them will be using AC.
If they keep the old triple head then I think it'll be ok for leaf drivers. If it's a single CHAdeMO head on site it's a bit ****e for them.

Silent Running

Black_Knight wrote: »

Wait so it's 3 HPC and 1 ye Olde 50kW unit? Wonder will they keep the old triple head too?

So 8 cars can charge, but 1 of them will be using AC.
If they keep the old triple head then I think it'll be ok for leaf drivers. If it's a single CHAdeMO head on site it's a bit ****e for them.

It looks like two of those HPCs have Chademo on them, and one with two CCS heads.

Black_Knight

Silent Running wrote: »

It looks like two of those HPCs have Chademo on them, and one with two CCS heads.

Ah I missed the signs. Looks to me like 2 HCP are CCS only, 1 is mixed, and 1 triple head 50kW unit. That'd be my recommendation of CCS to CHAdeMO head ratios, but the 50kW is a bit disappointing. Guess those old Zoe's and slower charging cars need to be catered for too. Ideally the old triple head will remain also.

KCross

Silent Running wrote: »

It looks like two of those HPCs have Chademo on them, and one with two CCS heads.

It looks to me like they have 3 x HPC with only one Chademo cable and 5 CCS. I wonder is that Chademo 200A capable since it’s on a HPC?

The fourth charger, an FPC, has Chademo, CCS and AC with the AC looking like it is just a 32A connector rather than AC43 since there is no cable hanging off it.

So two Chademo slots out of 8. Looks like a good setup to be honest.

When is it to all go live?

Black_Knight

KCross wrote: »

It looks to me like they have 3 x HPC with only one Chademo cable and 5 CCS. I wonder is that Chademo 200A capable since it’s on a HPC?

The fourth charger, an FPC, has Chademo, CCS and AC with the AC looking like it is just a 32A connector rather than AC43 since there is no cable hanging off it.

So two Chademo slots out of 8. Looks like a good setup to be honest.

When is it to all go live?

Think end of June was always what they aimed for. I've notes from the ievoa meeting last year in this thread here somewhere.

Silent Running

Black_Knight wrote: »

Ah I missed the signs. Looks to me like 2 HCP are CCS only, 1 is mixed, and 1 triple head 50kW unit. That'd be my recommendation of CCS to CHAdeMO head ratios, but the 50kW is a bit disappointing. Guess those old Zoe's and slower charging cars need to be catered for too. Ideally the old triple head will remain also.

KCross wrote: »

It looks to me like they have 3 x HPC with only one Chademo cable and 5 CCS. I wonder is that Chademo 200A capable since it’s on a HPC?

The fourth charger, an FPC, has Chademo, CCS and AC with the AC looking like it is just a 32A connector rather than AC43 since there is no cable hanging off it.

So two Chademo slots out of 8. Looks like a good setup to be honest.

When is it to all go live?

It looks like you can see an O peeping out of the top of the sign on the second last unit, on the left side.

Black_Knight

Silent Running wrote: »

It looks like you can see an O peeping out of the top of the sign on the second last unit, on the left side.

Thought that was just part of the top of the unit. The plug handle on that side of that unit certainly looks like CCS. Could we get a better pic peposhi

KCross

Silent Running wrote: »

It looks like you can see an O peeping out of the top of the sign on the second last unit, on the left side.

Possibly. Looking at other sign though the O wouldn’t be that far right but it’s hard to tell.

Silent Running

Black_Knight wrote: »

Thought that was just part of the top of the unit. The plug handle on that side of that unit certainly looks like CCS. Could we get a better pic peposhi

It certainly does look like a CCS plug though.

Don't get me wrong... I'm certainly not rooting for it to be Chademo.

Black_Knight

Silent Running wrote: »

It certainly does look like a CCS plug though.

Don't get me wrong... I'm certainly not rooting for it to be Chademo.

No sign of it on their API yet. Won't be anything until the morning at best, or whenever they start testing them.

the_amazing_raisin

Black_Knight wrote: »

Wait so it's 3 HPC and 1 ye Olde 50kW unit? Wonder will they keep the old triple head too?

So 8 cars can charge, but 1 of them will be using AC.
If they keep the old triple head then I think it'll be ok for leaf drivers. If it's a single CHAdeMO head on site it's a bit ****e for them.

Is the triple head not a high power unit?

Better if it is a 50kW as the slower charging cars will use it

cannco253

So if 2 cars are charging on the CCS only unit does that mean 75kW each?

the_amazing_raisin

cannco253 wrote: »

So if 2 cars are charging on the CCS only unit does that mean 75kW each?

I think that's the case yes