ESB eCars

liamog

I can't quite work out what that article is trying to say, it sounds like an electricity producer is trying to get out of paying network charges, wouldn't that just result in consumers picking them up instead? I don't really care about lower unit rates if my standing charge has to increase.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118853410#Comment_118853410

It's basically saying the cost of maintaining our grid is much higher than European counterparts, indicating a high level of inefficiency in the regulation of the grid. In other words, we're paying too much to keep the grid running and for it to be upgraded

IMO, it's partly true, partly false

The annoying reality is that we're an island with minimal interconnection to other countries, a small spread out population, and high wages by European standards

All of these would combine together to make the network more expensive to maintain per capita since the same economies of scale don't apply

There's also the need to grid upgrades to handle new renewables coming online which needs to be paid for

However, the CRU hasn't really been doing much to drive down network costs either. When ESBN come along and ask for a 20% price increase, there doesn't seem to be much pushback coming from the CRU to show that they're ensuring that ESBN is getting good value for money and also is properly prioritising projects

mfceiling

If you are the lady in the 221 Offaly reg Ev6 can I suggest parking beside the charger at Mayfield and not in the next spot. She has the cable at full length going over an empty space into her car. Now the charging plugs on the other side of my charger are out of use because she is parked in that spot.

mfceiling

IMG_20220331_190904.jpg

Brain power wouldn't be great.

the_amazing_raisin

Maybe the other spot was ICEd or something when she arrived?

mfceiling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118864568#Comment_118864568

A possibility but I think not because she was half way between the 2 spaces. Car park was quiet at the time. Just inconsiderate to anyone else.

That's one of my gripes about the Tesla network opening up. It will be a free for all and basically "screw you if I'm taking up 2 spots...I need a charge".

innrain

Witnessed a similar situation and because is Friday I decided to try my skills in drawing cause is easier to see it.

The layout is as in the picture. 7 spots accessible. The red hash means the space is cordoned off. The little squares represent the AC chargers, green functioning, red not. In fact the not working one is with a black wrap around it and taped as is the half of the one beside space 3.

Where do you think the next EV goes? Well they go to no 3 and charge from port 4

My wife as a less experienced driver would not dare to try and reverse in 2 even though is doable. What I actually do in this situation I park on 2 and charge from 1, allowing spots 3 and 4 to charge from port 2 and 4 respectively. Basically with a bit of consideration 5 cars can still charge and not 4 or even worse 3.

This is relevant as the Sandyford SuC layout is similar and if opened to all EVs any inconsideration would make more than half unusable. Unfortunately there is not much we can do except maybe educate our kids to be more considerate.

mfceiling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118864809#Comment_118864809

That's a great drawing and a great example of good utilisation. I wouldn't have thought of going into 2 to use number 1

Unfortunately as you say, the opening of the SuC could prove to be an absolute balls.

You see it in every other facet of day to day driving. Cars parked illegally. Cars blocking spaces. Cars parking illegally in disabled spots. A lot of drivers are dicks and care only about their own situation.

Anyone who thinks they will magically become considerate when it comes to charging etiquette is seriously deluded.

TitianGerm

I see Tesla have a survey available about charging at an SCU. Might be worth completing if you would use one when it's opened to all makes.

When it does open it might get eCars to get their arse in gear and expand correctly.

Fingleberries

What addional motivation will they have to get in gear. Someone else will have solved the problem for them.

mfceiling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118866149#Comment_118866149

This is my thinking.

Ecars or whatever they call themselves will have no reason to speed up progress.

Why would they? Somebody else has done the heavy lifting for them.

AndyBoBandy

Sites where 4+ cars can DC charge simultaneously (i.e. sites where there's a good chance you won't have to queue);

eCars: 2

Ionity: 5

Tesla: 6 (up to 8 whenever Anna's cousin finishes Athenry & Sandyford)

Never mind not doing any heavy lifting.... eCars aren't really doing any lifting at all when it comes to hubs.

(Mayfield is 10 months old this week, and since then we've gotten Tuam (only a few weeks ago), by going by those timelines, we can expect the next 4+ car hub by maybe February 2023... (at which point there should be another 30,000 or so new BEV's on the roads.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118866624#Comment_118866624

eCars don't have an obligation to provide charging infrastructure to you, that's should be the governments job.

mfceiling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118866664#Comment_118866664

Well to be fair that job has become a lot easier if the SuC network opens up!!

wassie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118866090#Comment_118866090

You see it in every other facet of day to day driving. Cars parked illegally. Cars blocking spaces. Cars parking illegally in disabled spots. A lot of drivers are dicks and care only about their own situation.

Spot on.

zg3409

Longer cables, overhead sprung gantries like car washes and placing each charger in the middle of 4 parking spaces like a petrol pump would help. It's madness installing new sites and not maximising the use of the chargers. They really should just remove AC from DC chargers and put a post with AC nearby as a backup. Even with long cables there is a high chance of one spot blocked with or without user plugged in, so allowing 4 cars around each charger is a must.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118852381#Comment_118852381

We’ve no AC interconnecters so have to cover a lot mores reserve an Ancillary Services.

our population is around 2 times the size of Birmingham, while our grid has to cover an area roughly 255 times larger

We also have to import most of our fossil fuel

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118867115#Comment_118867115

100% agree, definitely for HPC sites this should be the standard

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118866664#Comment_118866664

Ah now, eCars are way closer to a Gov company than a private company

PaulJoseph22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118851222#Comment_118851222

we had an ev and amongst other things, the charging network was a big factor in getting rid of it.

Hopefully revisit full ev in a few years.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118867396#Comment_118867396

They are a department in a sub division of a state owned company, this thread has shown many times that people don't understand the concept of state owned enterprise. Fortum Drive&Charge is also a state owned energy utility they've done a great job of delivering charging infrastructure, mainly because the governments in Scandinavia have decided to incentivise charging infrastructure instead of like here where they've let the market decide, and given a pot of money as a grant. Hopefully the new EV strategy will be more prescriptive and give grants to sites based on planned requirements instead of just bootstrapping a commercial network. I want to see the NTA plan a charging hub and then invite tenders from any operator to build and run it.

slave1

To adopt into EV ownership is to charge at home and plan to avoid eCars/Easygo and work around Tesla/Ionity.

To plan around SPOF/occupancy/queues is doomed.

eCars have had many many years to implement correctly and they have failed, I have no reason to believe a "new EV strategy" will succeed.

There is no need for reinventing the Norwegian wheel.

Old diesel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118869901#Comment_118869901

Problem with the above in a longer term basis is....

1) it actually excludes people from owning a brand new car after 2030 if no driveway.

2) eCars failings should shape what kind of network to aim for.

3) We should look at how Easygo could improve. They DO have an ability to get out and put chargers in the ground. Like Mallow now has a DC charger it didn't have before.

They also lined up investment late last year to deliver 500 more chargers on the whole island.

Where they seem to fall down is getting the proper power to the site - that Mallow charger is a 75 kw charger but I'm not even sure it can get near 50 kw with the power supply to the site. This might be an ESB networks issue and not Easygo. But still

4) Current petrol station operators can be incentivised to become chargepoint operators. Like Maxol.

5) need to look at what Govt needs to do to attract the Fastnets, Instavolts to be part of Irelands network. Things like for example Govt paying for grid access and stuff so basically all Fastnet would need to do is roll up with their engineers and connect up their chargers.

6) need to know what eCars staff actually really want to achieve.

Its not your fault - but I hate the Irish thing of giving up on good things being possible.

the_amazing_raisin

On the EV sales front, looks like we could be hitting 35,000 EVs on the road this year and probably 70,000 next year if sales continue increasing at the rate they are

So almost triple the number of cars in 2 years, I'm wondering how ESB is going to handle that

The good news, is that the market gap created by ESB dropping the ball will hopefully bring some more players in. Might see some of the UK or European networks setting up shop here soon. Tesla and Ionity are both expanding already

So it looks like ESB are going to be irrelevant pretty soon, except for the few routes where they got real hubs, or a few back routes that other networks won't touch

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118871905#Comment_118871905

I think you’re being a bit optimistic with your predictions about the demise of eCars. Even if a major European operator decides to enter the market, they’re going to face the same delays and costs with ESBN that Tesla and eCars appear to do they’re not going to be able to roll out a major network quickly. And without major subsidies, they’re likely to focus on the major IC routes (like Tesla, Ionity and to some extent eCars) so their impact will be minimal.

The biggest hurdle to state subsidies for other operators is the acceptance that the current model of throwing cash at eCars hasn’t worked and that a new model is needed. Massive changes in the way government works rarely happen overnight.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118872448#Comment_118872448

Well the thing is that if the commercial operators focus on the motorway routes, then that will starve Ecars of their main income source, so they'll likely get into financial trouble

This is actually a bad thing because for all of Ecars failings, they are putting chargers in areas that other operators won't touch, so if they go then it'll leave a gap off the main routes

I agree the current strategy isn't working. I think the main problem is that any operators need to put of 50% of the costs, which cuts out a lot of potential operators. A tendered system would be much more effective IMO

slave1

The current strategy does not work as there are not enough dependable hubs

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118873153#Comment_118873153

I very much doubt that anyone in ESB cares too much about the eCars P&L. It’s such a tiny, unrelated part of the whole group that a loss there would be insignificant.

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118871905#Comment_118871905

For me as a heavy user of public network the ecars fast charging network is already irrelevant. Planning your trips around the already outdated 50kW SPOF is not in fashion anymore. If you really need charging on the way you pay the 200 quid a year subscription to Ionity and/or pay 40% more to easygo or get a Tesla/wait for SuC openig and you're moving . Back in 2018 ecars were announcing the 10+10M investment

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2057933309/ecars-get-10m-to-develop-150kw-charging-network

Unfortunately nobody envisioned it will take so many years to spend them and so little result. 4M quid a year nationwide investment is literally change money. (the amount of change not collected from the toll booths in Ireland amounted nearly 1M quid). Recently I red the Fastned financial report down to CEO's salary which is surprisingly low. I'd like to see the same for ecars. To bad they do not have to report to anybody so they don't care for performance.

cannco253

https://twitter.com/spikebmth/status/1510567644872777728?s=21&t=lzf0gSntcP2e6Z6_kRy0lg

Meanwhile, ESB in the UK…

How many units are in this hub…Not sure where it’s located