ESB eCars

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338991#Comment_119338991

I'm more impressed by them recognising that the AC needs to be disabled on these small chargers. The amount of times I've used Blanch recently and a 3 DC hub is turned into a 2 DC hub by someone having a nice leisurely AC charge. It looks like they've finally got the message and hopefully will retroactively disable the AC at some of the busier locations.

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119339043#Comment_119339043

My only direct experience is on the new 50kW units they've been installing in NI.

I charged at one in May and got 23kW rate because there was a Leaf on the AC.

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119340244#Comment_119340244

Careful now...

I suggested disabling AC on triple head chargers to prevent DC crippling and was attacked by the chair of the IEVOA for discriminating against the poor!

mfceiling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119340244#Comment_119340244

This x 100.

AC chargers and DC chargers should be completely separate.

If you are AC charging you're obviously there for a good while. At shopping centres etc they should be together in a bank of at least 6 or 8. DC units are really a "splash and dash" job.

Black_Knight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119340471#Comment_119340471

EVs in general discriminate against the poor. Prices of them have got crazy!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119340692#Comment_119340692

Blanch is probably a decent spot for AC charging. The 150kW unit with a 45 minute overstay fee at a shopping centre as busy and difficult to access at Blanch is idiotic. I think they do have a bank of AC units in blanch somewhere, don't they?

To me, AC charging is for anywhere i'm going to be more than an hour in - Gym, cinema, shopping centres

DC is when i'll be back to my car within about 30-50 minutes - Weekly shop, Shopping centres, motorway service stations, home improvement shops (woodies, builders merchants etc)

Local builders merchants here has 2 AC sockets for customer charging. It's constantly used by the 2 Enyacs employees own, and from what i've seen, no on else.

liamog

Blanch is probably a decent spot for AC charging. The 150kW unit with a 45 minute overstay fee at a shopping centre as busy and difficult to access at Blanch is idiotic. I think they do have a bank of AC units in blanch somewhere, don't they?

We've covered it to death, Blanch is a district centre for the local area and a destination shopping centre, lot's of people will spend short periods there and the DC chargers get some of the highest usage in the country. Everything you describe as being for DC is how many people use Blanch.

The centre should be installing many AC points for the blow-ins and eCars disable the AC at their current location.

cython

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119340769#Comment_119340769

Blanch is probably a decent spot for AC charging. The 150kW unit with a 45 minute overstay fee at a shopping centre as busy and difficult to access at Blanch is idiotic. I think they do have a bank of AC units in blanch somewhere, don't they?

There is a set of 7kW AC chargers in the red car park outside of M&S, Aldi, etc. but they're nothing to do with eCars as far as I'm aware. According to Plugshare they're operated by EC Charging.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119340037#Comment_119340037

Fair point, but they're not exactly blocking a 150kW charger if they're charging and paying extra for the higher power

This is again one instance in which load balancing chargers could help. Maybe instead of discrete chargers they had some of those Delta or Kempower units that can split out the available power between cars

In an urban charging hub, put in more plugs and divide up the grid connection down to 50kW

In a service station, maybe have fewer plugs (or stop being cheap and get a better grid connection 😁) so the minimum power is ~100kW

If you're the early bird and all the chargers are free, then you get max power no matter the environment

If there's cars already charging, at least you'll get a decent charging speed versus wait time

liamog

Yes, that's exactly how'd I roll out an urban charging hub. The kempower chargers look to be the absolute business, instead of deploying 2 200kW charges that max out at 4 cars, I'd deploy 8 of the kempower points that can dynamically share the available 400kW between them.

hurikane

Wtf do you do when there’s a Mitsubishi Outlander connected to the only fast charger. Guy sitting in it says he has over an 30mins to go. Do you get out and smash the tyre iron into his windscreen?

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119342315#Comment_119342315

Why? He's a paying customer minding his own business. Why so angry anyway? And finally most EVs don't have spare nor irons 😂.

Thumper Long

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119342315#Comment_119342315

Breaking the windscreen is a bit OTT in all fairness

just ask him to roll down the window and jab him through the opening 😂

DrPhilG

I'm hearing from folk up north that eCars have adjusted the new 50kW units so the DC throttling is no longer an issue.

Need to test it myself to be sure, but that's promising. ECars told me they had resolved this in May but my last charge was May 22nd so I had my doubts.

kanuseeme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119342315#Comment_119342315

It could be worse, there could be a queue of 2 cars ahead of you, one sure thing is that the Mitsubishi Outlander owner is content.

If it is bothering you so much, next time buy something that will make you happy.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119342315#Comment_119342315

Kinda the same thing you do with any queue, you wait 😉

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119342462#Comment_119342462

Tow hook mate, doubles as the security system 😁

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119342126#Comment_119342126

I think those Delta units ESB have installed can have up to 4 plugs running in parallel

Of course since most chargers get installed at the edge of a car park that's not much use

I'm not sure how smart they are at dividing the available power, I think they go in 50kW divisions and it depends on which plugs are in use. I wasn't able to decipher it from the datasheet

So you could end up with a Leaf on one side getting 100kW and 2 ID.4s on the other side getting 50kW each

The Kempower one is definitely the best technology when it comes to load management IMO, and the satellites are much lower profile so it gives you a lot more flexibility regarding placement

eagerv

Stopped off at Coynes Cross, Co Wicklow to use the facilities late this afternoon, not intending to charge. Couldn't believe there was no one using the single 50kW eCars unit. So plugged in while enjoying a coffee sitting on the nearby benches. In the 35 mins we were there, nobody else appeared. Thought this place was always busy? Didn't really need to charge (Car said would have 19% remaining when home after 355km driving but thought we may have a longer detour to pick up dog)

jackofalltrades

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119340471#Comment_119340471

Such a move would be fairly inconsiderate to Zoe drivers like myself.

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119343618#Comment_119343618

At least you're honest. It may be rough on Zoe drivers, but it's not an attack on the poor.

The problem is that the AC hoggers are/were crippling the entire DC network in Northern Ireland for everyone. Local Leaf or i3 owners plugging into the AC for 5-6 hours meaning that every single DC charge time was doubled.

And whilst it would be sore on Zoe drivers to disable those AC chargers, the people causing the issue would be blocking Zoe drivers too anyway.

This was a common issue in Derry too, people ditching on the fast AC for 5 hours at a time meaning that Zoes who could actually take a proper speed were left out.

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338893#Comment_119338893

I don't believe chademo and CCS can be used at the same time on these chargers.

Two bays are needed as many non leaf EVs have the charging port on back left, back right, front left, front right which means you can only fill up in one spot as the cables provided are too short. It does also allow a queue to form with less fighting.

I believe esb are attempting to limit their install costs by not consuming more than 100kW at this site. When you go above a certain power you are talking installing new substations which cost money and take up space. They presume 50kW is enough, particularly when they don't have much competition above 50kW in the area.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119343618#Comment_119343618

Is it though? You can use one of the 700 ESB AC points on the island. Most of these are also 22kW AC and come with the added benefit of not blocking a DC charger.

jackofalltrades

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119345511#Comment_119345511

If I owned a 43kW Zoe I'd be fairly annoyed if they were suddenly disabled and I was left with just 22kW charging.

The triple head chargers are usually the only AC chargers that are in motorway services as well.

I regularly use one at such a motorway service area, it's quick to get to, well lit and safe.

If it was turned off I'd be driving for miles to another town to try and find a charger.

There are other solutions that would solve this issue without being so draconian.

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119345956#Comment_119345956

Those units when have AC they have 22kW only. About 6 triples in Dublin have power supply constrain limiting DC to 25 kW even when only 3kW is drawn from the AC side.

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119346191#Comment_119346191

Could you give me details on those ones in Dublin?

ECars insist that this was addressed in May.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119345956#Comment_119345956

It's one of the downsides of being an early adopter, sometimes the technology moves a different way. It's been apparent for a very long time that the future of en-route charging in Europe has been DC CCS charging. At least with a 22kW AC connection the drivers still enjoy a huge advantage, the eventual ending of CHAdeMO support will be much more painful.

the_amazing_raisin

Tbh 22kW AC should at least be an option on more cars, it would really make those of public AC chargers a lot more useful

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119346758#Comment_119346758

These are different from those new units installed in NI. These are the old style efacec triple units 50 kW DC & 43 kW AC. They are labelled as such in the app. For example Stillorgan P&R has at the bottom the following text "Please note if AC and DC are used simultaneously the max output power may reduce due to supply constraints"

Similarly are Templeville, Newlands Cross, Finglas, Park Pointe

They don't have enough input power and the split happens when someone activates the AC side halving the DC output. I think one solution for AC charging at these rapids would be to restrict to 3phase only. Even so when queuing, people plug into the Type 2 basically increasing their waiting time. It is hard to make this things up.

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347310#Comment_119347310

Ah fair enough. Bit crap but worse when it's happening on a brand new unit.

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347335#Comment_119347335

Some are new units. Just old style. The Stillorgan worked fine until they've upgraded the two AC units beside the rapid. Previously 7kW upgraded to 222kW. The rapid lost priority. The others replaced the old DBT chargers which were hooked at 50kW supply and they didn't upgrade. "Coming next week"

Old or new units 50kW is out of fashion in 2022. They should be installed by local, urban players. A national charging network should aim much higher. A state subsidised supported one should showcase.