ESB eCars

oscarBravo · 01-02-2023 8:28pm

The Kinnegad layout is a bit annoying if you have the charging connector towards the back of the car.

tom1ie · 02-02-2023 8:54am

what is the highest powered charger available from ecars with a ccs delivery at the moment?

For example:

if a unit is 300KW and there is one car plugged in could that unit theoretically deliver 300KW to that single car (obviously depending on SoC and if the car can take that!),

or does it mean that if the charger has two leads (head units?) each lead is limited to 150KW, if 4 leads each lead is 300/4=75KW?

AndyBoBandy · 02-02-2023 9:21am

I don’t think even wCars can answer that question…

J14/Mayfield was/is their flagship site and a few weeks after opening it they downgraded the power in all of the units from 350kw to 150kW….

the_amazing_raisin · 02-02-2023 9:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120190517#Comment_120190517

I think they've installed a few 200kW units, Tuam and Frankfield are the only ones I can think of

They're load split, so if another car plugs in then you get 100kW, but in theory they should do 200kW max

liamog · 02-02-2023 9:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120190568#Comment_120190568

My understanding was they are still 350kW capable they just advertise them under the 400V limit. Would need someone with a Ioniq5/EB6 or a Taycan to confirm

ELM327 · 02-02-2023 10:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120190649#Comment_120190649

The mayfield units can do full speed with a taycan of 250-270. Or at least, someone posted in the IEVOA group when the site was launched that they could. The problem was it took all the load and put the other side of that 350kW unit offline completely. They may have software limited to 400v or something.

That's the main thing to remember, a 150kW charger (or 170,180 etc) are almost exactly the same as a 350kW charger. The only difference is the 350kW charger can do 400a (500A max) at 800V too.

Black_Knight · 02-02-2023 11:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120190649#Comment_120190649

That's pretty much the answer I got when I asked them. 350kW was setting an expectation for users, so ecars now advertise them as much lower speeds. Alternatively they could have educated their users, but no... just lie.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120187399#Comment_120187399

And that's your anecdotal evidence. Versus some actual statistics which show CHAdeMO cars are vastly outnumbered by CCS on Irish roads, so logically you'd think "they need more units to charge off of". Ah ha, I hear the argument of "But CHAdeMO cars traditionally have less, range and thus need to public charge more" stirring. It's a fair point, to which I have my own opinions about (those who by low range cars likely don't do much long range driving and thus don't need public charging), and some actual statistics... in a beautiful graph format too!

CHAdeMO minutes charging is less than half that of CCS!
There are more sites with CHAdeMO units than there are sites with CCS. So no CCS car can block a CHAdeMO car there.
There are 4 more ecars managed CCS units than CHAdeMO, but if you include Nissan dealer units, there's 3 more CHAdeMO units
EasyGo are 50:50 in their supply of CCS vs CHAdeMO
Ionity obviously only do CCS
Applegreen are a mix, but looks like they favour CCS.

If I were in the business of installing chargers, I know what ones I be favouring. Nothing about installing CHAdeMO plugs makes business sense.

zg3409 · 02-02-2023 11:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120190517#Comment_120190517

As mentioned CCS has a limit of 400amps so the car needs to be 800 volt compatible to get peak power and so most cars are incapable of peak numbers. No teslas only porche and some Ioniq. Even then the supply may not be capable or the preference may be given to load share and stop a high power user blocking the second side. Often these chargers cannot dynamically load share just 50/50 share and there may not be charger to charger load sharing or entire site load sharing so they may be limited to a sensible lower safe limit to ensure all chargers on site and motorway services will not trip the entire site. I believe there have been issues with new motorway sites tripping the entire supply but I am not sure that's the chargers fault or more all the french fry cookers going at once.

From a financial point if view it does not make sense to pay for an install of rediculous peak capacity that may never be reached.

ELM327 · 02-02-2023 12:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191156#Comment_120191156

Absolutely. And even the Ionity labeled 350kW chargers cannot deliver 350kW. They have a max of 500A and 1000V but not at the same time.

tom1ie · 02-02-2023 12:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191156#Comment_120191156

Great info thanks.

so in the scenario you mention it’s a 320KW unit?

P=V.I so P= (800)(400)= 320000watts so 320KW.

liamog · 02-02-2023 12:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191171#Comment_120191171

If they were delivering 500A at 1000V wouldn't that be 500kW?

ELM327 · 02-02-2023 12:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191255#Comment_120191255

Yes but the max is 500A.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191332#Comment_120191332

Exactly, but the curves dont match up. If you look at the spec for the chargers they use, it can deliver 1000V and 500A . However it cannot deliver 500A and 1000V at the same time. You'll see cars pegged to 499-500 amps if the car can take more. But if you pull up in a semi truck with a notional 1000V pack, the amps will reduce on the charge as its not rated to supply 500kW, max is 350kW.

liamog · 02-02-2023 1:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191387#Comment_120191387

hence why it's called a 350kW unit, if a car is capable it will receive up to 350kW. It sounded like you were saying the Ionity 350kW units weren't capable of 350kW at all. Your post clarifies it

Then we get into the fun situation with chargers that use non cooled cables and are limited to 200kW. But that's one for us real charger geeks.

tom1ie · 02-02-2023 1:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191599#Comment_120191599

I don’t have an EV but I find the infrastructure interesting- do ecars have any cooled charger cables (or is the max they do 200kw?) or is that just ionity, Tesla sc etc?

ELM327 · 02-02-2023 2:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191599#Comment_120191599

Yes, if you have an 800v car with an aggressive charging curve you could get 350kW. Sorry if my prior post was unclear or misleading on that. There is a 200A limit from V1 of CCS which maxes out at 80kW and 160kW at 400/800v respectively. The non cooled cables I only found out from Bjorn and Out of Spec youtube channels fairly recently, until then I didnt know there was a limit at 200kW.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191677#Comment_120191677

I think most ecars installs are limited to 150-200kW, with Mayfield being the only exception. I only charged there a couple of times and didnt notice if the cables were cooled or not.

liamog · 02-02-2023 3:10pm

Don't quote me on the number, the limit seems to vary by cable manufacturer.

the_amazing_raisin · 02-02-2023 3:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191677#Comment_120191677

It seems to vary by cable length, and how much the installer wants to spend

As the cable gets longer it has more resistance so you need it to be thicker to handle the extra current and also dissipate heat

Problem is the cable gets heavier pretty quickly that way. So you either sacrifice weight or make the cable thinner and sacrifice charging speed

Water cooling the cable is one way around that, means you can have a longer cable without the weight penalty

AndyBoBandy · 02-02-2023 4:07pm

You know who doesn't give a sh1te about cable length vs cost........ Applegreen

any car in any space should be teh basic requirement of any charger/charging space.... and in 2023 eCars still haven't grasped that..

innrain · 02-02-2023 4:39pm

I think it is explained by the below graphs.

Ultra-Fast-Charge-Station.pdf

liamog · 02-02-2023 4:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192515#Comment_120192515

I'd be surprised if it was even considered beyond purchasing the standard Terra 184s. I think eCars are still conservative from the days of the DBT chargers and eFacec's where the cables often ended up damaged due to the lack of locking mechanisms on the charging stations.

the_amazing_raisin · 03-02-2023 10:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192684#Comment_120192684

Even the short cables can still be damaged, come to a charger enough times so see one of the plugs on the ground

Only real fix is to have a cable holder system like Kempower or some of the Ionity stations to stop the cable before it hits the ground

Could also do the petrol pump thing that the session doesn't stop until you replace the plug. People would learn the lesson quickly if they got billed for 48 hours of overstay fees 😳

Red Silurian · 03-02-2023 3:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120195329#Comment_120195329

I like the petrol pump idea, there's a few liquid fuel ideas we could take on board like using card or cash to pay at the machines (pay at pump model)

liamog · 03-02-2023 3:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120195329#Comment_120195329

From the damaged cables I've seen they always looked like they'd taken a right battering, more like ran over than just dropped.

The newer units have cable presence detection and some even have parking sensors. I agree it would make a lot of sense to bill on return of the cable.

zg3409 · 03-02-2023 8:16pm

⚠️UNAVAILABLE CHARGERS⚠️

⚡️ We would like to inform you that the following high power (150kW) chargers will be unavailable on the below mentioned dates due to essential maintenance. Please note that the times are only estimates.

📆 Tuesday, 7th of February

⚡️ Charger ID C75XM

📌 Blanchardstown Centre, Navan Road, Clonsilla, Dublin 15

⏰ 10:00 - 16:00

📆 Wednesday, 8th of February

⚡️ Charger ID C7YKX

📌 Park Ri Service Station, Cavan Road, Townparks, Kells, Meath

⏰ 07:15 - 12:15

📆 Wednesday, 8th of February

⚡️ Charger ID C7ARW

📌 Circle K, Centra O'Briens, Lynn Road, Mullingar, Westmeath

⏰ 12:00 - 17:00

📆 Thursday, 9th of February

⚡️ Charger ID C7EN4

📌 Texaco (Mace & Supermacs), N4, Ballinalack, Westmeath

⏰ 07:00 - 12:00

📆 Thursday, 9th of February

⚡️ Charger ID C7QBR

📌 Lunney’s, Sligo Road, Carrick-on-Shannon, Roscommon

⏰ 12:00 - 17:00

📆 Friday, 10th of February

⚡️ Charger ID C69KB

📌 Kilmartin N6 Service Station, Dublin road, Athlone, Westmeath

⏰ 07:30 - 12:30

📆 Friday, 10th of February

⚡️ Charger ID C8QJC

📌 The Galway Plaza, Junction 16, Carrowkeel, Kiltullagh

⏰ 12:00 - 17:00

📆 Monday, 13th of February

⚡️ Charger ID C6GC4

📌 Glynn's Centra/Circle K Service Station, Carnmore Cross (At Galway Airport Entrance on R339 off N18), Oranmore, Galway

⏰ 06:00 - 11:00

📆 Monday, 13th of February

⚡️ Charger ID C71Y1

📌 Circle K/Centra, Rochestown Road, Rochestown, Cork City

⏰ 12:30 - 17:30

📆 Tuesday, 14th of February

⚡️ Charger ID C6W59

📌 Circle K Service Station, M8 At Junction 3 (R433), Ballacolla, Laois

⏰ 07:30 - 12:30

📆 Tuesday, 14th of February

⚡️ Charger ID C7ZL7

📌 Portlaoise Plaza, Exit 17, M7, Portlaoise, Laois

⏰ 12:00 - 17:00

📆 Wednesday, 15th of February

⚡️ Charger ID C6VRF

📌 Circle K M9 Kilcullen, Kildare

⏰ 07:00 - 12:00

📱 Find your nearest charge point on our 'ecar connect' app or our real-time map: https://esb.ie/ecars/charge-point-map

zg3409 · 03-02-2023 8:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120195329#Comment_120195329

Some of the 50kW chargers used lock the plug in place until authorised. They may also detect if a cable is not put back and locked in place. This system causes some issues where the plug won't unlock and often the trick is to push further in while the unlock is happening which helps the unlocking process. Many thought the chargers were broken but this trick helps solve the problem. In terms of billing I dont think esb implements something to bill or notify driver plug is not put back. Technically this should be possible.