ESB eCars

ELM327

slave1 wrote: »

I suggest the ilk of folk driving that distance to a train station will not need to charge up every day, however they may need every second or third day and this is an incentive to do so, think Leaf 24/30 and any other early EV model owner and in a few years any heavily degraded EV.

We need to keep incentives up, penetration is nowhere near past early adopters!!

I have no problem with charging for Rapids, that has freed up a lot of chargers for quick stop charges but I fundamentally feel they should leave AC chargers alone and leave free charging as incentives, or at least match the lowest night rate.

I agree but would accept day rate
Charging 3x the day rate for AC charging is nonsense. It makes sense for DC as you're supplying more power.

Black_Knight

ELM327 wrote: »

I agree but would accept day rate
Charging 3x the day rate for AC charging is nonsense. It makes sense for DC as you're supplying more power.

Yup. I think day rate would be fair to those without driveways and pointless to locals.

Agree with other posters too. Some places just don't need 22kW or even 7kW charge point. Seems esb are solving every problem with a new/faster charge point, rather than identifying the use case at the site in question. Give me a 3.5kW charge point at work, or even a 3 pin socket and id be happy. Other work places might need quicker turn around times, so 7 or 22kW might be better suited to them, but those are private installs so not really relevant here.

22kW charge points at train stations isn't what they need. They need multiple charge points. A 22kW charge point satisfies 2 drivers. 2 7kW charge points satisfies 4 drivers.

Town centres, tourist spots, parks are better served with 22kW. Quicker turn around times of cars, and faster rate for those who can take it.

Supermarkets are better served by fast chargers I'd imagine. AC charge points will be empty once fees come in.

unkel

slave1 wrote: »

How is anyone thinking to charge full rate for slow destination charging and then an overstay fee?
Someone has lost the concept here, basic concept at that

+1

And to add to that, abolish the rule that you must be actually charging to avail of free parking at an AC (destination) charge point. Being plugged in suffices. Of course it's likely that at some point your charge will be finished if your car is there for many, many hours on end while you have taken the train to work. So what?

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

+1

And to add to that, abolish the rule that you must be actually charging to avail of free parking at an AC (destination) charge point. Being plugged in suffices. Of course it's likely that at some point your charge will be finished if your car is there for many, many hours on end while you have taken the train to work. So what?

This rule, like the free parking rule, varies in its implementation.

slave1

Re Paying for DC charging, are you paying for the charge or the less time spent charging?

ELM327

slave1 wrote: »

Re Paying for DC charging, are you paying for the charge or the less time spent charging?

Yes.


You're paying for both. Hence why it's 3X day rate.

liamog

unkel wrote: »

+1

And to add to that, abolish the rule that you must be actually charging to avail of free parking at an AC (destination) charge point. Being plugged in suffices. Of course it's likely that at some point your charge will be finished if your car is there for many, many hours on end while you have taken the train to work. So what?

It highlights my biggest issue with the AC network. AC charging is something that a location should offer, not something a charging network should supply. That's not saying eCars/Easygo shouldn't be involved in the provision, but it should be done so as a service to the location rather than on an energy provided basis. eCars running the AC network for Tesco is a good example, hopefully Tesco are paying for eCars as a service provider rather than expecting eCars to make money from the locations.

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

It highlights my biggest issue with the AC network. AC charging is something that a location should offer, not something a charging network should supply. That's not saying eCars/Easygo shouldn't be involved in the provision, but it should be done so as a service to the location rather than on an energy provided basis. eCars running the AC network for Tesco is a good example, hopefully Tesco are paying for eCars as a service provider rather than expecting eCars to make money from the locations.

Tesco paying ecars would make sense, as they already have fossil fuel deals of 5-10c per litre off for customers in Tesco

Busman Paddy Lasty

ELM327 wrote: »

Priority, load balancing etc all costs money
Putting in a bank of 7kW chargers is a more efficient and cost effective solution. No one needs 22kW at a destination charger like a train station.

12 sockets at 3.3 kW was the suggestion for train stations initially. I agree load balancing in that scenario wouldn't pay for itself and didn't need a mention.

For 2*22 kW destination chargers this would potentially be worth a viable income per hour to eCars if charging comes in at 22c/kWh if all the power available is sold. That ought to be motivation for eCars to have as much as possible of the supply being used for income generation while providing a better service at the same time.

Black_Knight

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

12 sockets at 3.3 kW was the suggestion for train stations initially. I agree load balancing in that scenario wouldn't pay for itself and didn't need a mention.

For 2*22 kW destination chargers this would potentially be worth €968 per hour to eCars if charging comes in at 22c/kWh. That ought to be motivation for eCars to have as much as possible of the supply being used for income generation while providing a better service at the same time.

29c. They like to gouge

ELM327

Black_Knight wrote: »

29c. They like to gouge

29c for AC will make sure they are always available, thats for sure!

Black_Knight

ELM327 wrote: »

29c for AC will make sure they are always available, thats for sure!

I guess that's the beauty of it, though anything over day rate per kWh would of freed them up too.

zg3409

44kWDC charger now installed tanyeard lane tullamore instead of 2 x 22kW. May not be active yet but its physically fitted

Black_Knight

zg3409 wrote: »

44kW charger now installed tanyeard lane tullamore. May not be active yet but its physically fitted

Do you work for ecars or something? You seem to be aware of nearly every charge point in the country.

ELM327

Black_Knight wrote: »

Do you work for ecars or something? You seem to be aware of nearly every charge point in the country.

If you follow plugshare and facebook it's easy to stay aware of these.
This specific charger was posted in the IEVOA group this morning for instance.

slave1

ELM327 wrote: »

29c for AC will make sure they are always available, thats for sure!

zg3409 wrote: »

44kWDC charger now installed tanyeard lane tullamore instead of 2 x 22kW. May not be active yet but its physically fitted

This is killing the progress, that rate for destination chargers and installing a 2kW charger, honestly:rolleyes:

unkel

Just start charging for slow charging and leave those old AC chargers alone. What a waste of tax payer's money investing in them

Get the feck on with those fast charging hubs that this country desperately needs for progressing to more people (including those without a driveway) owning EVs. The priorities are all wrong and I guess there is no politician around in government with any vision who can tell the ESB to stop wasting money and do a proper infrastructure upgrade. Not downgrade :mad:

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Get the feck on with those fast charging hubs that this country desperately needs for progressing to more people (including those without a driveway) owning EVs.

Charging hubs wont solve that problem. More AC solutions is whats needed for that.

If you exclusively charge on DC you can expect your battery not to last the course particularly the smaller batteries... until they change battery tech.

And even if it didnt have a negative effect on your battery would you really want to go to a charging hub and charge once or twice a week and sit in your car for 30-60mins or more. The public wont go for that... the charging hubs are for long distance driving, not for enabling those without a driveway.

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

Charging hubs wont solve that problem. More AC solutions is whats needed for that.

If you exclusively charge on DC you can expect your battery not to last the course particularly the smaller batteries... until they change battery tech.

And even if it didnt have a negative effect on your battery would you really want to go to a charging hub and charge once or twice a week and sit in your car for 30-60mins or more. The public wont go for that... the charging hubs are for long distance driving, not for enabling those without a driveway.

Agree
Widespread AC charging.


In parts of the US every public car park spot has a plug, just a 10a/110v outlet, but they are used for block heaters.


If you installed 13a/220v CEE plugs in most carpark places it would solve the lack of driveway issue.

slave1

...and there's plenty of lamp posts in our car parks to tap a low AC charger into, no digging, no major works, as easy peasy as it gets

liamog

KCross wrote: »

Charging hubs wont solve that problem. More AC solutions is whats needed for that. And even if it didnt have a negative effect on your battery would you really want to go to a charging hub and charge once or twice a week and sit in your car for 30-60mins or more. The public wont go for that... the charging hubs are for long distance driving, not for enabling those without a driveway.

Park your car at a 50kW charger in the supermarket car park whilst doing your weekly shop? Sounds like the end of the world!

KCross

liamog wrote: »

Park your car at a 50kW charger in the supermarket car park whilst doing your weekly shop? Sounds like the end of the world!

I don’t think that will become the norm anytime soon though. The cost of a rapid and the fact it’s just one car doesn’t make economic sense.

Those scenarios will be banks of AC Charge points until DC drastically reduces in price.

KCross

slave1 wrote: »

...and there's plenty of lamp posts in our car parks to tap a low AC charger into, no digging, no major works, as easy peasy as it gets

There isnt 3kW spare at every lamp post. There would be upgrade works required so not entirely easy peasy but it is one of a suite of solutions that needs to be ramped up.

AndyBoBandy

KCross wrote: »

I don’t think that will become the norm anytime soon though. The cost of a rapid and the fact it’s just one car doesn’t make economic sense.

I don't know why the likes of Tesco don't go for this option!! They already sell petrol and diesel, and its linked to their club card for discounts etc...

Install 2 to 4 50kWh DC chargers and suddenly every Tesco carpark becomes a forecourt and a stream of revenue.

they could add so many promotions onto it.. spend more than €50 in store, and your charge cost is free/reduced etc...

KCross

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

I don't know why the likes of Tesco don't go for this option!! They already sell petrol and diesel, and its linked to their club card for discounts etc...

Install 2 to 4 50kWh DC chargers and suddenly every Tesco carpark becomes a forecourt and a stream of revenue.

Cost.

The stream of revenue wouldnt match what a petrol/diesel forecourt would produce.... maybe in time it would but for now it wouldnt.

Rapid charging is somewhat of a chicken and egg problem.... we need alot more of them to encourage EV uptake but they are not commerically viable until we have more EV uptake.... hence the need for the climate action fund to fund some of it.

MJohnston

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

I don't know why the likes of Tesco don't go for this option!! They already sell petrol and diesel, and its linked to their club card for discounts etc...

Install 2 to 4 50kWh DC chargers and suddenly every Tesco carpark becomes a forecourt and a stream of revenue.

they could add so many promotions onto it.. spend more than €50 in store, and your charge cost is free/reduced etc...

Just to correct you, Tesco are out of the petrol station business in Ireland now.

liamog

They manage it in the land of free enterprise UK. Supermarkets regularly act as host sites for 50kW chargers, they also manage it in mainland Europe, and the US. But let's create an Irish solution, AC chargers everywhere!

KCross

liamog wrote: »

But let's create an Irish solution, AC chargers everywhere!

You don’t think we need that?

We need AC and DC. Lots of. Has to be commercially viable though and being a small island the economics are a little harder.

liamog

KCross wrote: »

You don’t think we need that?

We need AC and DC. Lots of. Has to be commercially viable though and being a small island the economics are a little harder.

No, I don't. I think we needed that in 2015, when a car needed 3 charges a week to cover average weekly mileage, and a 50kW charge was a C rate of 2.5. Now that we've busted through the once a week charge covers the average weekly and a 50kW charger is 0.8C we can fill the gaps for on-street parking by 50kW district hubs instead AC chargers at every lamppost.

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

No, I don't. I think we needed that in 2015, when a car needed 3 charges a week to cover average weekly mileage, and a 50kW charge was a C rate of 2.5. Now that we've busted through the once a week charge covers the average weekly and a 50kW charger is 0.8C we can fill the gaps for on-street parking by 50kW district hubs instead AC chargers at every lamppost.

We could, if more hubs were available.


The remaining advantage for AC over DC is where you plug in for hours (ie workday, cinema etc).
If you're shopping or out for a walk and that takes 1 hour, at 50kW that doesnt fill a lot of new EVs