ESB eCars

liamog

If I need to plug in at a public AC charger for 6 hours in the evening, it's ridiculous to expect me to move my car at 3am in the morning because its finished charging.

Kramer

liamog wrote: »

If I need to plug in at a public AC charger for 6 hours in the evening, it's ridiculous to expect me to move my car at 3am in the morning because its finished charging.

I've no problem with that - I'd just make you pay through the nose for it .
It's a terrible waste of a resource as mentioned though.

Would you think a 24kWh leaf owner has the right to plug in every evening at 5pm (home from work), leave plugged in until 7.30am the next morning & repeat, 5 days per week? On a public charge point?

A charge point which could almost fully charge 3 Zoes at 22kW in 6 hours - 3 Zoes who might be visiting the city & need the charge?

This Leaf owner to who I refer actually went on holidays at one stage - he left his Leaf connected for exactly 17 days (cpinfo was operational at the time) & also avoided parking fees (in Limerick city centre).

Anyway, ample 3kW/7kW charge points are needed, but 2x 22kW AC charge points, funded by tax, on free vend, will always be abused.

Nominal charges - 15c/kWh would do.

MJohnston

unkel wrote: »

I know. They're quite a bit away from the main shopping area though.

I’ve never tried it, but I think there may actually be an entrance to the shopping centre near the overflow carpark at the back of Dunnes. If there is, it’s actually no further than some of the main car parks!

liamog

They are destination chargers so whether you are charging at 3.3kW or 22kW is somewhat immaterial. The expectation is that they are used for charging whilst you are doing something else.

Plugging in in the evening and picking the car up in the morning is an expected use case should be catered for.

Marlow

liamog wrote: »

They are destination chargers so whether you are charging at 3.3kW or 22kW is somewhat immaterial. The expectation is that they are used for charging whilst you are doing something else.

Plugging in in the evening and picking the car up in the morning is an expected use case should be catered for.

Ah .. you know .. beggars (and so on ... ) .. there's always gonna be somebody, who is giving out because they didn't get the freebe ..

/M

Silent Running

McGiver wrote: »

No, they are not, this is a major misconception on this thread.

The only true destination chargers are - home and hotels, and maybe some P&Rs which are a special case.

In Paris, Prague, London, Berlin you get penalised by charging on AC for too long. Again, ELM327 can say what he wants but it's about efficient usage of the resource. That's why it's time limited / penalised almost everywhere.

Innogy Berlin 0,39 EUR / kWh + 0,06 EUR / min after three hours. Similar system is in place in Prague with different thresholds for additional per minute fee on different networks (between 3 to 6 hours). In Paris some chargers get extra 7c/min fee after first hour. London - 10 quid/hour after 90 minutes. Etc etc.

The German/Czech system is reasonable IMHO. And yeah we need AC - everywhere. Even just 3-pin 13A sockets, they're common in Europe too.

In Wexford the limit is 3 hours, and you must actually be charging. Over 3 hours parked or not actually taking a charge, even if plugged in, and you risk a parking ticket.

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

They are destination chargers so whether you are charging at 3.3kW or 22kW is somewhat immaterial. The expectation is that they are used for charging whilst you are doing something else.

Plugging in in the evening and picking the car up in the morning is an expected use case should be catered for.

Absolutely. Mcgiver can say what he wants but it's irrelevant , can't expect people to come back on a train, bus etc to move their car.

Genghis

The only time I've had any serious 'altercation' at a charge point was when I returned to an Irish Rail AC charger from my evening train. I had left my Leaf on charge there that morning.

I generally charge at home, but maybe once a week require a charge at the train station. I wouldn't use the facility unless I had say <20% remaining, but I would be gone for 11 hours (apx 5hrs overstay after full).

While disconnecting the owner of the car next to me returned and asked me if I thought it was acceptable to leave my car at the charger for hours after it was full. This guy is not a train user, he just lives nearby and like the free electricity. He felt he was the better person because he was able to collect his car once it was full.

He couldn't see that the intended use of an slow charger in an Irish Rail car park would be for day commuters, and not for nearby EV owners.

The charger is usually very quiet, I think this guy has come to think of it as his own personal station.

Not met him since, but regularly see his Ioniq alongside mine on the days I use the charger.

ELM327

Genghis wrote: »

The only time I've had any serious 'altercation' at a charge point was when I returned to an Irish Rail AC charger from my evening train. I had left my Leaf on charge there that morning.

I generally charge at home, but maybe once a week require a charge at the train station. I wouldn't use the facility unless I had say <20% remaining, but I would be gone for 11 hours (apx 5hrs overstay after full).

While disconnecting the owner of the car next to me returned and asked me if I thought it was acceptable to leave my car at the charger for hours after it was full. This guy is not a train user, he just lives nearby and like the free electricity. He felt he was the better person because he was able to collect his car once it was full.

He couldn't see that the intended use of an slow charger in an Irish Rail car park would be for day commuters, and not for nearby EV owners.

The charger is usually very quiet, I think this guy has come to think of it as his own personal station.

Not met him since, but regularly see his Ioniq alongside mine on the days I use the charger.

Absolutely. It's a destination charger, can't expect people to come rushing back to move

McGiver

Silent Running wrote:

In Wexford the limit is 3 hours, and you must actually be charging. Over 3 hours parked or not actually taking a charge, even if plugged in, and you risk a parking ticket.

That's a separate topic - parking should be free while charging. Important perk for EV uptake. They did it in Norway, I trust it works.
The situation in Ireland is complicated, different councils have different rules, the central gov should mandate this in law.

McGiver

ELM327 wrote:

Absolutely. Mcgiver can say what he wants but it's irrelevant , can't expect people to come back on a train, bus etc to move their car.

Straw man argument. We're talking about AC Charging in general, you're intelligent enough to recognise it, I'm sure.

P&R is an extreme case and the only case where you're right. Almost all of ACs are not P&R. Do you have anything rational add to the topic? Are you saying that the whole Europe are doing it right but you know better... Because that's how you come across.

cluaindiuic

Anybody know which one of the Kilkenny city chargers are being updated?

McGiver

ELM327 wrote:

Absolutely. It's a destination charger, can't expect people to come rushing back to move

Destination charger is an unfortunate term, only Tesla uses that terminology extensively.

Destination charger is a hotel charger where you charge overnight. All other ACs are not destination chargers per se. Sorry.

ELM327

McGiver wrote: »

Straw man argument. We're talking about AC Charging in general, you're intelligent enough to recognise it, I'm sure.

P&R is an extreme case and the only case where you're right. Almost all of ACs are not P&R. Do you have anything rational add to the topic? Are you saying that the whole Europe are doing it right but you know better... Because that's how you come across.

McGiver wrote: »

Destination charger is an unfortunate term, only Tesla uses that terminology extensively.

Destination charger is a hotel charger where you charge overnight. All other ACs are not destination chargers per se. Sorry.

If I park at a charger at a bus stop, what do you expect me to do?
If I'm half way through a film, a meeting, a work dinner, what do you expect me to do?


Yeah. no. That car is staying where it is till I'm done. You can add all the emboldening you wish but it doesn't alter the fact that, in order to drive change, you don't expect the end user behavior to change. You change the system. In this instance, add more ac charging.

Black_Knight

McGiver wrote: »

Destination charger is an unfortunate term, only Tesla uses that terminology extensively.

Destination charger is a hotel charger where you charge overnight. All other ACs are not destination chargers per se. Sorry.

I certainly wouldn't be using them (willingly) on a long drive. Only time i've needed one and used it over a fast charger was when I went to a match in Galway. I needed to charge to 100% before heading home the next day, so I "destination charged" while at the match. Dropped the car out to a friends house before hitting the town (because i'm courteous). Other times I had to use it is because Dungarvan has no fast charger and i'd be cutting it tight getting back to Cork in winter. In this instance it was an inadequate charge point for me.

ELM327

Black_Knight wrote: »

I certainly wouldn't be using them (willingly) on a long drive. Only time i've needed one and used it over a fast charger was when I went to a match in Galway. I needed to charge to 100% before heading home the next day, so I "destination charged" while at the match. Dropped the car out to a friends house before hitting the town (because i'm courteous). Other times I had to use it is because Dungarvan has no fast charger and i'd be cutting it tight getting back to Cork in winter. In this instance it was an inadequate charge point for me.

I hope you left the game early if your car was done!

mp3guy

ELM327 wrote: »

If I park at a charger at a bus stop, what do you expect me to do?
If I'm half way through a film, a meeting, a work dinner, what do you expect me to do?


Yeah. no. That car is staying where it is till I'm done. You can add all the emboldening you wish but it doesn't alter the fact that, in order to drive change, you don't expect the end user behavior to change. You change the system. In this instance, add more ac charging.

Bizarre people wouldn't assume this is the only practical way to use these points.

ELM327

mp3guy wrote: »

Bizarre people wouldn't assume this is the only practical way to use these points.

Sorry Global Director, I know there's 30 minutes left of our audit, but that pesky McGiver has told me I have to move my car now! Poste Haste!

MJohnston

A lot of these arguments could be solved with better designed charging stations. Design them such that cars can access them for connection from four different possible spaces.

Then once a car is fully charged it unlocks from the station, and someone waiting can unhook their cable from the station-side, and plug in without upsetting anyone and without unnecessary waiting. Maybe provide a courtesy charging cable holder so that they don’t have to drop the other persons cable on the ground.

ESB design and locate their charging stations so inefficiently right now.

ELM327

MJohnston wrote: »

A lot of these arguments could be solved with better designed charging stations. Design them such that cars can access them for connection from four different possible spaces.

Then once a car is fully charged it unlocks from the station, and someone waiting can unhook their cable from the station-side, and plug in without upsetting anyone and without unnecessary waiting. Maybe provide a courtesy charging cable holder so that they don’t have to drop the other persons cable on the ground.

ESB design and locate their charging stations so inefficiently right now.

This is the way we have it in work, 3 or 4 spots marked per charger so you can plug in and unplug the other person. You need the charge so you plug in (once they are finished of course, the cable won't unlock at the charger end unless they are done) and they move their car when they are able to.

liamog

In other news

One of our two fast chargers at the sites at Kilcullen, Co Kildare and Carrowkeel, Co Galway will be inaccessible from today, Monday 29th June, due to upgrade works commencing to replace them with a 150kW high power charger.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/ESBecars/posts/?ref=page_internal

ELM327

Cant wait to try that out. If I had 2 Evs I'd love to see the load balancing (ie is it, as I suspect, a hard coded 75kW max on each side)

Black_Knight

ELM327 wrote: »

I hope you left the game early if your car was done!

Nope. I'd paid for all day parking. I left at my earliest convenience though (not really, I forgo a pub to drive to a house and wait for a taxi to bring me to the pub). I'm a hero!

Kramer

Black_Knight wrote: »

Nope. I'd paid for all day parking. I left at my earliest convenience though (not really, I forgo a pub to drive to a house and wait for a taxi to bring me to the pub). I'm a hero!

Now that's next level, above & beyond stuff right there. A true, green jersey wearing, conscientious pillar of the community :pac:.

So we're getting 150kW hubs!!!!!!

On my way up to Carrowkeel now - can't wait to suck some electrons at Ireland's fastest dc charger at 150kW* .

*........besides the many Tesla superchargers & Ionity 350kW chargers etc......which have been operational for years already........

AndyBoBandy

ELM327 wrote: »

Yeah. no. That car is staying where it is till I'm done.

In my case on Sunday, the car plugged in for 11 hours (& counting), was a plug in hybrid with a battery range of 18km.

I didn't need a charge, but if I did, I'd be pretty miffed if I saw a PHEV plugged in for the last 11 hours!, while another guy in another PHEV occupied the 'fast' DC charger, but didn't actually start a charge (so won't get any 40 minute time limit warning notification).

Of course any transport hub based chargers can be considered for longer term/daily use by the very nature of where they are, but ones in shopping centres, or in towns/villages. They should be treated as shorter term chargers (1-4 hours).

unkel

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

any transport hub based chargers can be considered for longer term/daily use by the very nature of where they are, but ones in shopping centres, or in towns/villages. They should be treated as shorter term chargers (1-4 hours).

If they should be treated as shorter term chargers, then they should provide a faster charge!

I've said it for years, we need DC chargers at supermarkets and shopping centres where you stay for half an hour or a couple hours at most

AC chargers are destination chargers where you should be allowed to park for the day (for taking public transport into work) or overnight (on street chargers for people with no home charging)

None of them should provide free electricity paid for by the tax payer imho

ELM327

I should add, I agree with Unkel. I've paid the overstay fee a couple of times at this point, as I preferred a 1 hour one charge stop compared to 2 30 minute stops. It's less of an issue when you have the mrs and kids in the car to stop once at an MSA for lunch than to stop once for a quick lunch and then try fill another 30 minutes.

I'm not expecting free electricity, just the ability to fill up without directly altering my life.

Irishjg

Quote:
One of our two fast chargers at the sites at Kilcullen, Co Kildare and Carrowkeel, Co Galway will be inaccessible from today, Monday 29th June, due to upgrade works commencing to replace them with a 150kW high power charger.

I’m a bit confused with this msg from Ecars. Are they adding a 150kw unit at kilcullen to make a total of three chargers or are they taking away one of the 50s and replacing it with the 150 rig. It would be disappointing if they are only swapping one for the other. Surely it would be better to keep the two existing units and add the 150. There’s a space there for it !

Petetheroadie

Irishjg wrote: »

Quote:
One of our two fast chargers at the sites at Kilcullen, Co Kildare and Carrowkeel, Co Galway will be inaccessible from today, Monday 29th June, due to upgrade works commencing to replace them with a 150kW high power charger.

I’m a bit confused with this msg from Ecars. Are they adding a 150kw unit at kilcullen to make a total of three chargers or are they taking away one of the 50s and replacing it with the 150 rig. It would be disappointing if they are only swapping one for the other. Surely it would be better to keep the two existing units and add the 150. There’s a space there for it !

It's the latter I believe, there will be 2 chargers (1x150kw and 1x50kw) once the works are done.

Kramer

Petetheroadie wrote: »

It's the latter I believe, there will be 2 chargers (1x150kw and 1x50kw) once the works are done.

Cue someone with a large battery car capable of charging at 100kW+ rocks up, to see only the 50kW unit available, as a car incapable of taking more than 50kW, has chosen the newer, shinier charger.

It's progress though, I suppose.