ESB eCars

zg3409

https://www.irishevowners.ie/ievoa-press-release-esb-ecars-ac-pay-charging/?fbclid=IwAR2ktHR4BsZOxgggXxCvox1IdE01KHdjLchoQQuX50qWxxOHUwYVedrPGLo

More inside info on AC fees and ESBs 'logic'

we spoke with ESB ecars following their announcement in order to understand the rationale behind their pricing decision. These are primarily to:

Set the pricing between what customers pay to charge at home and what they pay at an ESB ecars rapid charge point (currently 26.8c on the ‘Membership’ plan or 30.5c on the ‘Pay As You Go’ plan)
To fund on-going maintenance, support and further investment in the public charging network.

slave1

"flawed" logic, and that's bring kind.
They got it wrong

liamog

I think the pricing is pretty spot on for occasional AC users, they probably need to add an extra tier of subscription for those who use a public AC charge point as their primary.

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

I think the pricing is pretty spot on for occasional AC users, they probably need to add an extra tier of subscription for those who use a public AC charge point as their primary.

There should be a subscription like 40 quid a month for unlimited AC and 75 quid a month for unlimited AC+DC.

unkel

So do we know yet if two cars can charge at these at the same time (one CCS, one CHAdeMO) without major throttling of either)? If so, that would be a significant improvement over the ubiquitous EFACEC triple head chargers

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

So do we know yet if two cars can charge at these at the same time? If so, that would be a significant improvement over the ubiquitous EFACEC triple head chargers

They can charge 1 CCS and one CHademo at the same time. Confirmed yesterday.

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

There should be a subscription like 40 quid a month for unlimited AC and 75 quid a month for unlimited AC+DC.

Why should there be? To have the tax payer subsidise people who do massive miles? Let them pay for that themselves.

Current PAYG system is fine, the rates are fine, albeit the overcharge fees are not high enough to be a deterrent

From a commercial point of view, another monthly sub that will give you a lower rate per kWh is an option, so more again per month, say €15 or €20 to give a lower again rate of say 18c / 20c on the slow chargers - this to suit people who don't have home charging. This is done extensively on the continent, see FastNed

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

Why should there be? To have the tax payer subsidise people who do massive miles? Let them pay for that themselves.

Current PAYG system is fine, the rates are fine, albeit the overcharge fees are not high enough to be a deterrent

From a commercial point of view, a monthly sub that will give you a lower rate per kWh is an option. This is done extensively on the continent, see FastNed

As a business model they want people to pay for the service.
For example, gronn kontact in NO offer volume discounts of up to 20% for heavy users. There should at least be that.

PS: Get away from the taxpayer nonsense, it's irrelevant. The entity is being run as a commercial entity, albeit semi state, following the frankly stupid decision to gift the network to ecars.

liamog

ELM327 wrote: »

They can charge 1 CCS and one CHademo at the same time. Confirmed yesterday.

Did we get confirmation on how the charge is split?

Kramer

liamog wrote: »

Did we get confirmation on how the charge is split?

As far as I know, they are powered by 2x 75kW power modules, which can be combined if just one is in use, to output up to 150kW to a single (CCS) vehicle.

They should output just 75kW max then, on each connector, should 2 vehicles be connected simultaneously.

Ridiculous IMO, using the Chademo connector on one output, leaving 2 CCS vehicles unable to charge simultaneously at 75kW, or at all :mad:.

Kramer

As I predicted, anyone & everyone will use the new, shiny charger when available, in preference to the old 50kW unit, whether they have a 24kWh Leaf or a rapidgating 40kWh Leaf, pulling just 20kW.

While it's free, expect every local within 50km, driving anything with a battery, to be hogging it.
I'm actually just off out on the way to it myself now - free lecky!!

.

unkel

Kramer wrote: »

They should output just 75kW max then, on each connector, should 2 vehicles be connected simultaneously.

Ridiculous IMO, using the Chademo connector on one output, leaving 2 CCS vehicles unable to charge simultaneously at 75kW, or at all :mad:.

Well in fairness, that's the ESB installing chargers that can charge 2 cars at the same time, not just 1 as in the last 10 years. A little bit of progress. Still slow though.

Now where are those fecking fast charging hubs though that cost us our 10 million?

McGiver

ELM327 wrote:

There are now a lot of leafs on the road. But in a year or two (even possibly now) the number of CCS users outweighs them.

Reminder - Don't forget the bet we made December 2019 - you said CCS cars would be the majority. The deadline is December 2020. We said the winner would give it to a charity of their liking

McGiver

ELM327 wrote:

It's all japanese and it's unlikely they will be forced to by regulation to change.

Also the Japs agreed with the Chinese to merge their standards, its going to be based on Chademo 2.0. That's a big standard and a big market.

It's going to be CCS (EU-US) vs Chademo (Asia). I can't see Chademo surviving in Europe, the Koreans got it. That the Japs insist on installing cars for EU-US market with Japanese plugs is bizarre, it's like if Sony insisted EU customers to use Japanese 2 pin (or whatever that is) in their TVs.

unkel

McGiver wrote: »

Reminder - Don't forget the bet we made December 2019 - you said CCS cars would be the majority. The deadline is December 2020. We said the winner would give it to a charity of their liking

ELM327 and I will have to start blowing up a good few Leafs so. Any link to the bet, I vaguely remember.

graememk

unkel wrote: »

ELM327 and I will have to start blowing up a good few Leafs so. Any link to the bet, I vaguely remember.

I remember that too.. 6 month update?

slave1

unkel wrote: »

Well in fairness, that's the ESB installing chargers that can charge 2 cars at the same time, not just 1 as in the last 10 years. A little bit of progress. Still slow though.

Now where are those fecking fast charging hubs though that cost us our 10 million?

Ironically the 22kW have been charging 2 cars at the same time all these years don’t forget

obi604

Educate me here.
At the charging stations that have

1. Chademo 50 kW
2. Combo CCS 50 kW
3. AC 43 43 kW


Does a car only successfully get the above charge speeds if its the only car using the charger?

if other cars rock up to charge at the same time, does it reduce the charging speed?

I have only used this type of charger once so don’t know the ins and outs.

McGiver

unkel wrote:

ELM327 and I will have to start blowing up a good few Leafs so. Any link to the bet, I vaguely remember.

I'll see if I can dig it out. Think it was this thread.

Kramer

obi604 wrote: »

Educate me here.
At the charging stations that have

1. Chademo 50 kW
2. Combo CCS 50 kW
3. AC 43 43 kW


Does a car only successfully get the above charge speeds if its the only car using the charger?

The DC side can only do Chademo or CCS, not both together.
So, in theory, a Leaf can charge at 50kW while an AC car can charge at 43kW, simultaneously.
Similarly, a CCS car can charge at 50kW with an AC car at the same time too, at 43kW.

That applies to the old triple head 50kW units.

maclek

I'm pretty they are using these for the 150kw fast charger: https://emobility.delta-emea.com/downloads/Brochure%20-%20UFC%20Ultra%20Fast%20Charger%20V7%20EN%202019-10-07.pdf.pdf


Highlights:




I'll leave this quote here too:





(sorry the pictures are too wide, can't seem to format them)

DrPhilG

Just checking, the rates now depending on subscription are:

AC - 23/27c

50kw DC - 27/30c

150kw DC - TBC

graememk

DrPhilG wrote: »

Just checking, the rates now depending on subscription are:

AC - 23/27c

50kw DC - 27/30c

150kw DC - TBC

Ok I wonder will they charge more for the 150kw one.

30/33c going on that trend?

Would a more expensive unit cost make a difference to anyone, ie would you go to the cheaper unit if you had a Kona/Niro/soul where you would get 75 ish peak?

If it was me, if it saved me time I prob would go to the high power one.

obi604

Kramer wrote: »

The DC side can only do Chademo or CCS, not both together.
So, in theory, a Leaf can charge at 50kW while an AC car can charge at 43kW, simultaneously.
Similarly, a CCS car can charge at 50kW with an AC car at the same time too, at 43kW.

That applies to the old triple head 50kW units.

So if a leaf is charging at the chademo and another car comes along and wants to use the combo CCS, this Other car can plug in and all, but It won’t start charging until the leaf is finished.

graememk

obi604 wrote: »

So if a leaf is charging at the chademo and another car comes along and wants to use the combo CCS, this Other car can plug in and all, but It won’t start charging until the leaf is finished.

It won't load balance in that way, the leaf has to finish, and then the new session has to be started on CCS

There has been incidents where someone was charging on CCS and a leaf plugged in and kicked the CCS user off and ended the CCS charge (shouldn't happen but it does)

Kramer

graememk wrote: »

It won't load balance in that way, the leaf has to finish, and then the new session has to be started on CCS

Exactly. One can't even plug in & leave as the CCS vehicle in your example won't start once the Chademo user stops. The new CCS session can only be started, on screen, when the other user finishes.

Kramer

So, has anyone with a 150+kW capable car hooked up to either of the new 150kW chargers yet?
Did you get the full 150kW?
Did a Leaf then plug in & knock you back to 75kW or were they unable to instigate a charge session as you were already pulling the max she could give?

...........we need answers.....:D.

obi604

graememk wrote: »

It won't load balance in that way, the leaf has to finish, and then the new session has to be started on CCS

There has been incidents where someone was charging on CCS and a leaf plugged in and kicked the CCS user off and ended the CCS charge (shouldn't happen but it does)

So essentially, there is a chademo and a ccs charger (2 chargers) but only one car can charge at a time

graememk

obi604 wrote: »

So essentially, there is a chademo and a ccs charger (2 chargers) but only one car can charge at a time

More like one charger and 2 cables, the electricity is the same but the signalling is different.

The High Powered chargers, have 2 Power modules that can be used together on one CCS connection to get 150kw or split between CCS and Chademo and give 75 each.

obi604

graememk wrote: »

More like one charger and 2 cables, the electricity is the same but the signalling is different.

The High Powered chargers, have 2 Power modules that can be used together on one CCS connection to get 150kw or split between CCS and Chademo and give 75 each.

So if anyone gets to one of these chargers and see a leaf charging and need CCS - they may as well do a u turn to another charger