ESB eCars

Zenith74

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

Figures post Nov 2019 will be a fun comparison. 1000 MWh of free juice vs ??? MWh paid service.

Might make for an interesting poll! Wonder if it includes slow and fast chargers?

Busman Paddy Lasty

Zenith74 wrote: »

Might make for an interesting poll! Wonder if it includes slow and fast chargers?

Ha yes it would! I'm going for about 350 MWh assuming it's DC only.

* CHAdeMO and CCS make up about 600 MWh of that total. The Type 2 portion in grey makes up for an awful lot of it too.

ELM327

I'm sure there was a massive drop off in use after payment

innrain

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

Figures post Nov 2019 will be a fun comparison. 1000 MWh of free juice vs ??? MWh paid service.

Still. The largest battery at the time was 38kWh? How many 64kWh Kona/Eniro/Esoul, not to mention Tesla M3s were sold since. To bad ecars does not provide this data as eirgrid does.

Busman Paddy Lasty

innrain wrote: »

Still. The largest battery at the time was 38kWh? How many 64kWh Kona/Eniro/Esoul, not to mention Tesla M3s were sold since. To bad ecars does not provide this data as eirgrid does.

Small cohort of drivers using it daily, regardless of battery capacity. Large battery cars and a Rex car would be driving past occupied charge points.

If my local AC is anything to go by some people haven't bothered getting a home charger or are very very cheap.

McGiver

Silent Running wrote:

I know of a couple of providers where you can avail of free Polar Plus membership allowing you to charge free, or at greatly reduced rate at any Polar charger, and there are a huge amount of Polar chargers in the UK.

You see the problem in Ireland is that hardly anyone is able to see beyond Wales and England to find out what's out there. UK is frankly irrelevant and generally an outlier in many things Europe wide. I don't really care about them, especially now with Brexit. There are good policies and ideas beyond these " British Isles". No offence to anyone associated with England. Just that the reliance on UK isn't healthy. It shows even in government policies (wait until UK do it and then copy them etc.).

On the continent almost every charging is paid, apart from freebies at the supermarkets etc.

McGiver

Calahonda52 wrote:

You too young to remember Ardnacrusha power plant?

Obviously we're not talking about essential heavy duty infrastructure here??? Like supplying electricity to the citizens....

McGiver

innrain wrote: »

I skimmed read the article and I found interesting the figure 11 which shows usage of over 1000 MWh per month in Feb 2019. And that is before larger batteries came on the market. at 25c per kWh that's € 250 k per month or about € 3M a year. And since than the number of EV probably doubled.

I'd say it would be higher now, way more cars and larger batteries also. Not sure if double though. But let's say 4-5M year + taxpayers money.

Question is - what are the running and maintenance costs?

McGiver

McGiver wrote: »

I'd say it would be higher now, way more cars and larger batteries also. Not sure if double though. But let's say 4-5M year + taxpayers money.

Question is - what are the running and maintenance costs?

I would think more kwh would mean less personal use of charge points, but there is an increasing numbers of electrics on the road too.

liamog

McGiver wrote: »

I'd say it would be higher now, way more cars and larger batteries also. Not sure if double though. But let's say 4-5M year + taxpayers money.

I'd suspect that the introduction of fees for charging has caused a reduction in the overall energy requirement.

1 GWh of energy over 7600 cars is 131kWh each. If you take the annual mileage of 17,000km and an average efficiency of 20kWh/100km then the average monthly energy requirement per vehicle is 283kWh. So it would seem at the time of the report, the average EV obtained 46% of it's energy from public charging. I think that number is excessively high.

I'm only counting the cars listed in the report as FastAC/CCS/CHAdeMO.

Stealthirl

liamog wrote: »

I'd suspect that the introduction of fees for charging has caused a reduction in the overall energy requirement.

1 GWh of energy over 7600 cars is 131kWh each. If you take the annual mileage of 17,000km and an average efficiency of 20kWh/100km then the average monthly energy requirement per vehicle is 283kWh. So it would seem at the time of the report, the average EV obtained 46% of it's energy from public charging. I think that number is excessively high.

I'm only counting the cars listed in the report as FastAC/CCS/CHAdeMO.

Id say there was a lot of cars only using free charging before the introduction of fees while those of us with home charging didn't bother with the hassle to save a few €€€
Picking figures out of the sky here but 50% could have been using free charging while the other 50 only used it on long trips. Personally i used it 34 times over about a year and most of that was on trips over 100km but now i take the ICE on long trips as it's cheaper (We can claim 60c back on every L of petrol, almost half price)

charlieIRL

I was travelling to Barna / Spiddal yesterday and called into the Galway plaza for a charge, app showed all chargers were free. There was a Model 3 / Ionic and a Tacan charging, all had just started charging. Ionic driver had to park sideways to get charging, a shocking design flaw with the chargers.

I went on again and pulled into the FCP in Newcastle, Galway. A few seconds after i started charging a Leaf / Kona and Model 3 pulled in to charge. There was another Model 3 there charging on the 22kW charger. I know we've mentioned it here load of times before but if we are going to continue with more and more EV's on the road, we are going to need a hell of a lot more charging points.

charlieIRL

charlieIRL wrote: »

I was travelling to Barna / Spiddal yesterday and called into the Galway plaza for a charge, app showed all chargers were free. There was a Model 3 / Ionic and a Tacan charging, all had just started charging. Ionic driver had to park sideways to get charging, a shocking design flaw with the chargers.

I went on again and pulled into the FCP in Newcastle, Galway. A few seconds after i started charging a Leaf / Kona and Model 3 pulled in to charge. There was another Model 3 there charging on the 22kW charger. I know we've mentioned it here load of times before but if we are going to continue with more and more EV's on the road, we are going to need a hell of a lot more charging points.

Indeed we are going to need a lot more chargers and I was saying that the introduction of charging per Kwh won't see the elimination of queuing.

And I still say the Rex is as relevant today as it was when it was released.

Even if I have 500 Km range, at some point when away from home I'm going to need to use public charging and currently it's not nearly good enough.

We need a minimum of 4 DC chargers per site nothing less is good enough.

We don't expect petrol or diesel drivers to queue so why are EV drivers expected to do with 1 charger mostly per site ?

I think every garage in Ireland should have 4 chargers per site minimum.

It does make me think twice about getting rid of the Rex, you just can't beat it, passing queues at chargers, or pull into a garage, car charging, another waiting, fill up with petrol and drive off.

I can only imagine being away with the Family, pull up to a charger and a car charging 2 queuing and the missus whinging in my ear for the duration getting madder and madder as time goes on, "we'd have been almost home if you had your i3 still, next time we're going in the Outlander"

charlieIRL

Deleted User wrote: »

Indeed we are going to need a lot more chargers and I was saying that the introduction of charging per Kwh won't see the elimination of queuing.

And I still say the Rex is as relevant today as it was when it was released.

Even if I have 500 Km range, at some point when away from home I'm going to need to use public charging and currently it's not nearly good enough.

We need a minimum of 4 DC chargers per site nothing less is good enough.

We don't expect petrol or diesel drivers to queue so why are EV drivers expected to do with 1 charger mostly per site ?

I think every garage in Ireland should have 4 chargers per site minimum.

It does make me think twice about getting rid of the Rex, you just can't beat it, passing queues at chargers, or pull into a garage, car charging, another waiting, fill up with petrol and drive off.

I can only imagine being away with the Family, pull up to a charger and a car charging 2 queuing and the missus whinging in my ear for the duration getting madder and madder as time goes on, "we'd have been almost home if you had your i3 still, next time we're going in the Outlander"

Very true.

My gang are great, they prefer going on trips in my car compared to my wife's and know we have to factor in a charge if we go any great distance but when you check all charge points on your route and they are all busy - it gets very frustrating.

Cyrus

Deleted User wrote: »

I can only imagine being away with the Family, pull up to a charger and a car charging 2 queuing and the missus whinging in my ear for the duration getting madder and madder as time goes on, "we'd have been almost home if you had your i3 still, next time we're going in the Outlander"

fair enough but an I3 isnt going to suit everyone.

i can imagine trying to pack a buggy, a couple of suitcases and the assorted paraphenalia needed for a family holiday in an I3. actually i cant

ELM327

That was my main reason for not getting an i3.
The rex made sense and I liked the performance.

But it's too small, only 4 small seats, and looks like a moon buggy

Kramer

ELM327 wrote: »

But it's too small, only 4 small seats, and looks like a moon buggy

You forgot about the pram wheels .

Mad_Lad will be raging!

McGiver

ELM327 wrote:

But it's too small, only 4 small seats, and looks like a moon buggy

Some call it a "unique design" couldn't care about the looks at all and if so then I prefer something quirky than something conformist or cliché.

The 4 seats are OK unless you've a large family or you're a taxi driver. In fact the i3 is more spacious inside than the Leaf despite being a 4-seater and looking smaller from the outside. Short bonnet and tiny boot are the reasons.

The boot sucks, but I knew about it before buying... This is the only downside and limiting factor of the car IMHO.

MJohnston

Cyrus wrote: »

fair enough but an I3 isnt going to suit everyone.

i can imagine trying to pack a buggy, a couple of suitcases and the assorted paraphenalia needed for a family holiday in an I3. actually i cant

I've done it plenty with my wife and our 4 year old, and it's totally fine. We survived 3 years of a Mini Clubman before that, which was even smaller (and he needed much more stuff then).

Throw a small roof box into the mix and we could easily handle a second child.

Of course, my wife also wanted an i3, so I don't have to deal with "you should have got a different car" vibes. The benefits of collaborative decision making in a marriage

Cyrus

Cyrus wrote: »

fair enough but an I3 isnt going to suit everyone.

i can imagine trying to pack a buggy, a couple of suitcases and the assorted paraphenalia needed for a family holiday in an I3. actually i cant

Well funny you mention that, when we needed the buggy we managed to fit that and suitcase in for a weekend away, we're a family of 4 so it's not so bad.

I even managed to bring her Parents to the airport with a couple of full size suitcases and 2 smaller bags for the cabin. Not as bad as you might think but granted it's not for everyone.

It's a shame more car manufacturers didn't offer a Rex type setup for other electric cars.

We're a good few years away from having a suitable network and what I mean by suitable is when you can go to any garage and find multiple chargers, nothing less is suitable if you ask me, having them along the motorways is fine and that's what we need but we need as many chargers as petrol pumps.

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

That was my main reason for not getting an i3.
The rex made sense and I liked the performance.

But it's too small, only 4 small seats, and looks like a moon buggy

We manage just fine, family of 4 and we got the Outlander if we need more space which is rare. Inside is surprisingly spacious especially up front.

Kramer wrote: »

You forgot about the pram wheels .

Mad_Lad will be raging!

The wheels are funny, especially the front but in fact the rear are about as wide as the MK I Caddy Van I used to have.

Still great craic though, the larger diameter wheels compensate for the narrower tyres.

McGiver wrote: »

Some call it a "unique design" couldn't care about the looks at all and if so then I prefer something quirky than something conformist or cliché.

The 4 seats are OK unless you've a large family or you're a taxi driver. In fact the i3 is more spacious inside than the Leaf despite being a 4-seater and looking smaller from the outside. Short bonnet and tiny boot are the reasons.

The boot sucks, but I knew about it before buying... This is the only downside and limiting factor of the car IMHO.

Yes it looks different, I like it but it's not for everyone, my Leaf I was pig ugly by comparison but to drive the i3 is the best thing about it and the interior is quite nice at least with the higher spec. Going from the Leaf 1 to the i3 was an amazing experience, the ride, handling and most of all the steering feel, getting back into the leaf after my first test drive in the i3 the leaf steering felt so disconnected by comparison.

I was at a vintage rally in Rathwood in Carlow last year and I had the drivers side door and passenger side doors open while I was getting the lads in and by the time I got the youngest in there were about 10 People standing around the car looking at it, they liked it and were asking tonnes of questions.

I still get People coming up to me now and again in car parks or at chargers wanting a look and to ask questions.

A lot of People don't like to be different and want a car that looks like a car everyone else drives for fear of being ridiculed but I have never received criticism from anyone who came up to me for a look or for anyone who sat in it. The only criticism I have received about the look of the i3 has only been on boards.ie

digiman

Any sign of the 150kW charger getting started in Donegal?

liamog

Independent article reporting on the eCars network.

https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/what-will-the-ev-charge-networkbelike-in-2025-39404949.html?fbclid=IwAR3XBTP4VrOnlCFkpEwJkTI1TTwzpl4FZ6nQCUORSlm8jApVjfViMVA1Zfk

The really big next step is the start of inter-urban/motorway chargers (up to 150kWh) such as the three-bay hubs at Kilcullen and Galway Plaza (free for now; pricing soon). Another one is shortly coming to Portlaoise; there will be one in Kells, Carrick-on-Shannon - to name a couple more - over the next while. The 150kWh can get you 100km in six minutes if your car can take it. Many cars can take 50kWh. "Then in four to six weeks we will be looking at eight-bay hubs that will have super chargers and fast chargers at key national routes by autumn."

Black_Knight

liamog wrote: »

Independent article reporting on the eCars network.

https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/what-will-the-ev-charge-networkbelike-in-2025-39404949.html?fbclid=IwAR3XBTP4VrOnlCFkpEwJkTI1TTwzpl4FZ6nQCUORSlm8jApVjfViMVA1Zfk

ECars (on facebook) saying the 150kW chargers will cost more per kWh than the existing fast chargers.

The price will be commensurate with the advanced technology of these units.

JPA

Black_Knight wrote: »

ECars (on facebook) saying the 150kW chargers will cost more per kWh than the existing fast chargers.

Of course they will. Otherwise they would have just brought them in with the same cost from the start.

Also you'd think Ecars themselves would know their kWh from their kW.

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

Independent article reporting on the eCars network.

https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/what-will-the-ev-charge-networkbelike-in-2025-39404949.html?fbclid=IwAR3XBTP4VrOnlCFkpEwJkTI1TTwzpl4FZ6nQCUORSlm8jApVjfViMVA1Zfk

shudder


The really big next step is the start of inter-urban/motorway chargers (up to 150kWh) such as the three-bay hubs at Kilcullen and Galway Plaza

Black_Knight

JPA wrote: »

Of course they will. Otherwise they would have just brought them in with the same cost from the start.

Also you'd think Ecars themselves would know their kWh from their kW.

How so? The units are 150kW, and they have a fee based on kWh.

KCross

liamog wrote: »

Independent article reporting on the eCars network.

The really big next step is the start of inter-urban/motorway chargers (up to 150kWh) such as the three-bay hubs at Kilcullen and Galway Plaza (free for now; pricing soon). Another one is shortly coming to Portlaoise; there will be one in Kells, Carrick-on-Shannon - to name a couple more - over the next while. The 150kWh can get you 100km in six minutes if your car can take it. Many cars can take 50kWh. "Then in four to six weeks we will be looking at eight-bay hubs that will have super chargers and fast chargers at key national routes by autumn."

They mention the super hubs by autumn! For that to be true they must be at an advanced stage, with planning applications already in play?


Any idea where that Portlaoise one is? They removed the 50kW from the Midway MSA, I wonder is it going in there since there is a new petrol station and site works with room for it. Anyone know?

Carrick-on-Shannon is a good location. Opens up the west a bit.

KCross

Black_Knight wrote: »

How so? The units are 150kW, and they have a fee based on kWh.

The cost of having the power available at a moments notice goes up with the power of the chargers.... its relatively easy to provide 50kW.
Providing several 150kW chargers at the same time costs alot more on the grid side hence the costs to the consumer will be higher to access those.

i.e. Its not the cost of the charger itself, its primarily the grid side is the bigger issue.

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

shudder


The really big next step is the start of inter-urban/motorway chargers (up to 150kWh) such as the three-bay hubs at Kilcullen and Galway Plaza

Ambition 2/10
Competence 5/10
Vision 1/10