ESB eCars

innrain

That why I said 2x25kW. The price is more competitive; ratio 4:1.
At 50 kW some cars depending their SOC would throttle the charging. at 25kW unless you're at 95% the charging goes full speed. You have the same number of outlets so theoretically you can charge @ 50kW all day long.
Delta, the supplier of the 150 kW has one unit

This one looks rebranded but the price is there https://evonestop.co.uk/products/rapid-charger-dc-25-kw

It is a compromise but I think is an optimization for both the supplier/retailer and customers. And I speak from the point of the guy without charger at home. If I have to choose I will not necessarily choose Tesco because the have a SCP where I can charge 35km while shopping. I still need to go to a FCP. While on the other hand 130 km is not the best but I'll postpone my FCP visit for tomorrow.

the_amazing_raisin

innrain wrote: »

At 50 kW some cars depending their SOC would throttle the charging. at 25kW unless you're at 95% the charging goes full speed. You have the same number of outlets so theoretically you can charge @ 50kW all day long.
.

I think it'd be better to supply 50kW through either plug if the other is free, that seems to be the direction some suppliers are going for DC charging hubs. I saw one recently where the individual chargers could supply 220kW but the site power supply wouldn't support all chargers at full power so would throttle them if they were all in use.


The reasoning was that typically some of the cars will not be taking the full 220kW, so it was unlikely the chargers would be throttled significantly.


Taking the same example to 50kW, you could have 4x50kW plugs supplied by a 100kW supply. If 1-2 EVs are plugged in they can get the full 50kW but if another comes along then it'll throttle. But by that time one of the EVs is probably throttling it's own charger so that'll make more power available for the other cars.


Worst case scenario, all 4 are supplying 25kW, which is still better than 22kW AC

liamog

What's interesting is that the same Thai site lists a 22kW CCS CHAdeMO unit, the charger is only $10,000 cheaper than the 50kW version.
It looks like it's not so much the DC capability that you are paying for.
Here's a cached site where the Efacec QC45 (eCars Triple Head) is about twice the price of a 24kW DC charger.
Without getting firm prices, it's going to be really difficult to work out the break even points.

If a 50kW DC charger costs twice as much as a 25kW charger, then its just a question of how the halved speed will affect occupancy rates.
Bear in mind you should be planning your site for cars that are available in the next few years rather than those that are already here.

obi604

its probably been discussed before............but just looking at the pricing below, seems to be no real incentive to do the membership thing. works out more unless you use the public chargers a lot, only seems to break even if you use > 120 kWh a month



- Pay As You Go is charged at 26.8c per kWh
- Membership is a €4.60 monthly subscription fee and a reduced charge of 23c per kWh

the_amazing_raisin

obi604 wrote: »

its probably been discussed before............but just looking at the pricing below, seems to be no real incentive to do the membership thing. works out more unless you use the public chargers a lot, only seems to break even if you use > 120 kWh a month


- Pay As You Go is charged at 26.8c per kWh
- Membership is a €4.60 monthly subscription fee and a reduced charge of 23c per kWh

Yeah that's generally the case, the monthly plans work out expensive unless you're using them a lot.

I'd try and get a free card which gives you cheap Ionity rates like Maingau and just PAYG otherwise. Roads trips will be pricey but otherwise you'll be better off in the long run

McGiver

cruisey1987 wrote:

The charger itself costs quite a bit more AFAIK, several times the cost of an AC unit. But yes even if they had to load balance the chargers and they weren't supplying the full 50kW all the time it'd still be better than AC units that aren't being fully utilised.

Correct. DC chargers are very costly. Hence everyone (private) installs AC chargers. Huge difference in costs.

I'm saying that the best bang for the buck is 2x11 kW, 2x22 kW is pointless as there are only 10% cars max who can take that power (Tesla S dual charger and Zoes).

Yes 2x 22-25 kW DC would be the best but it's expensive and prone to faults.

Black_Knight

Looks like Ashford got an updated 22kW unit. One of the new eVolve Smart T models.

Still no movement on Clifdens busted unit though.

Waterford 50kW is up to it's old tricks again of being down. At least they've installed that 44kW DC backup now. Think it's a battle between Waterford and Sligo for the most unreliable charger.

the_amazing_raisin

Black_Knight wrote: »

Waterford 50kW is up to it's old tricks again of being down. At least they've installed that 44kW DC backup now. Think it's a battle between Waterford and Sligo for the most unreliable charger.

I guess battling for the most unreliable train service wasn't enough for them :rolleyes:

the_amazing_raisin

Meanwhile in countries that actually care about their charging network:

https://www.electrive.com/2020/08/11/scotland-opens-largest-ev-charging-park-yet/

Seriously considering moving to Scotland now, if only I could understand the language

slave1

Was there last week, hardly saw an EV anywhere yet the place is littered with (mostly free) charge points, Tesla network up there great apart from weakness in Edinburgh where there is only two and they are in the airport car park

the_amazing_raisin

slave1 wrote: »

Was there last week, hardly saw an EV anywhere yet the place is littered with (mostly free) charge points, Tesla network up there great apart from weakness in Edinburgh where there is only two and they are in the airport car park

It's bizarre to see the charging network outpacing the cars so much. I wonder how the SNP is going to keep their promise of only EVs being sold by 2032.


I'd like to bring anyone there saying they won't get an EV because the charging network in Scotland isn't good enough on a road trip down here with my Leaf 24



Once this COVID nonsense is sorted (and I've a new EV) I think I'll need to take a road trip up there.


Andy from EVM seems to quite like the NC500 route, maybe I'll have a go at that

Laviski

random question.
is there many people paying the membership or most just PAYG?

liamog

I'm on a membership, but only because they gave it to us for free for the first year. I'll be switching to pay&go when it's up.

obi604

liamog wrote: »

I'm on a membership, but only because they gave it to us for free for the first year. I'll be switching to pay&go when it's up.

Same here.

the_amazing_raisin

Laviski wrote: »

random question.
is there many people paying the membership or most just PAYG?

I'm still on the free plan, will be going to PAYG as soon as it runs out. I suspect a lot of others will too, the paying plan only makes sense if you do a lot of public charging

Laviski

makes sense, was doing the math and you really want to be an apartment dweller with no possibility of private charge point. But even still many workplaces have or started to provide points at work. Need to be doing good distances (800km - 1km + ) on the public charge points alone for it to be worthwhile, with many charging at work/home i think that wouldn't be worthwhile.
Once everyone comes off the free plans would be interested to see if they change the pricing.

Black_Knight

Black_Knight wrote: »

Looks like Ashford got an updated 22kW unit. One of the new eVolve Smart T models.

That engineer down the east is keeping busy. Shankhill Dart Station upgraded to the eVolve Smart T model.

Only Clifden and McDonalds in Portadown marked to be replaced at the moment.

liamog

Black_Knight wrote: »

Only Clifden and McDonalds in Portadown marked to be replaced at the moment.

Clifden is taking ages, maybe he's in an electric van and can't make it that far :P

Black_Knight

liamog wrote: »

Clifden is taking ages, maybe he's in an electric van and can't make it that far :P

From what i've experienced they're just local contracted engineers. Got chatting the engineer in Cork back when the unit wouldn't let go of my cable. He disclosed his inner monolog of whether he'd update that unit or not that weekend to me. Sure enough, he did. Said he had a few in the van, he might upgrade the unit in skib too. Insightful, but I just wanted my cable released.

TLDR: Engineer seemed to make up his own mind as to when he'd update a charge point. I'm sure ESB gives them a list though.

Goldmark

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Meanwhile in countries that actually care about their charging network:

https://www.electrive.com/2020/08/11/scotland-opens-largest-ev-charging-park-yet/

Seriously considering moving to Scotland now, if only I could understand the language

Interesting that they are using storage solution on site. It may be just to accommodate the solar being produced. What are the technical issues with using battery storage on site to reduce the electricity connection costs. It seems an obvious solution for sites with limited connection outputs but still I have not come across it being used as a solution?

Goldmark

https://www.newmobility.global/smart-infrastructure/freewire-deploys-ultrafast-ev-charging-convenience-stores-california/

Then the next article I see. There is always someone innovating.

KCross

Goldmark wrote: »

Interesting that they are using storage solution on site. It may be just to accommodate the solar being produced. What are the technical issues with using battery storage on site to reduce the electricity connection costs. It seems an obvious solution for sites with limited connection outputs but still I have not come across it being used as a solution?

I think Tesla do it in some of their Supercharger locations.

MJohnston

Goldmark wrote: »

What are the technical issues with using battery storage on site to reduce the electricity connection costs.

I don't know about any technical issues, but major practical problems are that battery storage is an extra expense, and it takes up a lot of space.

the_amazing_raisin

Goldmark wrote: »

Interesting that they are using storage solution on site. It may be just to accommodate the solar being produced. What are the technical issues with using battery storage on site to reduce the electricity connection costs. It seems an obvious solution for sites with limited connection outputs but still I have not come across it being used as a solution?

Technical problems, not many. The batteries are already DC so you don't even need to convert to AC first



Financial problems, lots, it's a pretty big expense to build a battery storage unit on top of existing costs of the chargers and infrastructure


I remember Fully Charged did an episode in Dundee where they had done something similar. The battery unit there was used to store solar but also used to supply the peak demand from the chargers to reduce the electricity costs.



My (limited) understanding is that business electricity costs are based on rate of electricity usage and not just fixed cost per kWh like what you and I have. If you try to pull 300kW from the grid then your rate per kWh goes up than if you're using 100kW


Having said that, batteries are making their way into fast chargers. Tesla have used them on some of their superchargers, but I've no idea how widespread they are.



VW also demoed a DC charger a while back with a built in battery. The battery had enough to supply a couple of cars and would recharged from a limited grid connection (or even no connection)


https://insideevs.com/news/394881/volkswagen-mobile-charging-stations-wolfsburg/


So basically, it's going to happen. Just waiting for a good supply of second life batteries to become available

AndyBoBandy

was in Bray today and said I’d use one of the AC 22’s as 3 of the 4 on the strand were showing as available.....


1st twin unit did indeed have 1 slot available, however the van in the pic meant you’d be lucky to get a Leaf or Zoe in....

On to the next twin unit as both showing as available in the app....
Merc PHEV and an electric van plugged in but not charging.....


Yes, I was primarily looking for the parking space, but I was willing to pay the €0.26 per kW it would have cost me to charge, so lost revenue for eCars...

Irishjg

PHEVs seem to be magnetised to AC charging point car spaces.

liamog

Irishjg wrote: »

PHEVs seem to be magnetised to AC charging point car spaces.

The low electric range means they need to charge more often.

Black_Knight

Looking at my stats, and ESBs map, where are these 1100 public charge points they claim?
Rough estimates on the map suggest 550 odd ESB managed locations, granted some will have multiple units per site, and my own stats I scrape from the site say the total count of charge points on the ecars site (purple/3rd party ones included) is 814. Do they count each connector as a "charge point"?

https://esb.ie/ecars/our-network

Irishjg

liamog wrote: »

The low electric range means they need to charge more often.

Lol yeah ... god forbid they might have to use any of the 8 gallons of Dino juice sitting in the fuel tank. ��

kanuseeme

Irishjg wrote: »

Lol yeah ... god forbid they might have to use any of the 8 gallons of Dino juice sitting in the fuel tank. ��

8 gallons is too much, it would go bad in the tank, I only put about 5 gallons in, you know for long trips or when 3 cars are queuing at one charger, charger is not working,iced,no time to charge or somebody is simply using them.:D:D:D:D