ESB eCars

I read recently Norway has 70% of new cars registered in 2020 as EV ?

Ireland what , 2% max ?

Why are we addicted so much to Petrol and Diesel in a small Island, I mean it's not like you can pack the car and drive off the Island ffs.

Cost ? Charge times, Both ?

Perhaps it's a lot easier to get a charge point in an apartment virtually impossible in Ireland without jumping through lots of hoops and begging management agencies.

AndyBoBandy

Just watch any of Bjorn's 1,000km challenge videos to see what real EV charging infrastructure/hubs should look like....

JPA

There is no VAT on EVs in Norway and no tax.
It needs a government to actually make it the undeniable better choice to see mass uptake.

the_amazing_raisin

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Just watch any of Bjorn's 1,000km challenge videos to see what real EV charging infrastructure/hubs should look like....

I was watching one of his road trips from last year in the Kia E-Niro, he went into Sweden instead this time where it's the typical 1 DC charger per service station.


Needless to say, it quickly becomes clear why he sticks to Norway for the 1000km challenges


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdWaVlVhCrQ

the_amazing_raisin

Deleted User wrote: »

I read recently Norway has 70% of new cars registered in 2020 as EV ?

Ireland what , 2% max ?

Why are we addicted so much to Petrol and Diesel in a small Island, I mean it's not like you can pack the car and drive off the Island ffs.

Cost ? Charge times, Both ?

Perhaps it's a lot easier to get a charge point in an apartment virtually impossible in Ireland without jumping through lots of hoops and begging management agencies.

Yeah, Ireland in principle is one of the easiest places to own an EV in the world. You can't really drive more than 500km without a boat and the weather is generally mild so not huge losses due to heating/cooling the car.


From what I keep hearing, it's the lack of infrastructure which keeps people worried about running out of charge.


The irony is that forcing utility companies like ESB to build chargers is totally the wrong approach, they'll never make much money from the charging rates.


Getting the service stations to install DC chargers is a smarter idea, they can get away with not making much money from the electricity since they're making huge profits from the coffee and snacks that EV drivers are buying.


Creating a grants system tailored by location type would be the best approach IMHO. For example if a service station installs a bunch of 22kW chargers then no grant money, since that's an unsuitable charger for that location. It would also make it much easier to create and enforce standards like:


Service stations:
Min 150kW
Min 4 stations
Redundant comms
Credit/Debit card payment available
On site staff trained to reset/debug chargers


Supermarkets:
Min 50kW
Min 2 stations
Credit/Debit card payment available


Shopping centers/Paid Car parks

11kW AC or 50kW DC
Lots of stations


On street parking:
7kW AC
Lots of stations
Preferred rates for permit holders

cruisey1987

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Yeah, Ireland in principle is one of the easiest places to own an EV in the world. You can't really drive more than 500km without a boat and the weather is generally mild so not huge losses due to heating/cooling the car.


From what I keep hearing, it's the lack of infrastructure which keeps people worried about running out of charge.


The irony is that forcing utility companies like ESB to build chargers is totally the wrong approach, they'll never make much money from the charging rates.


Getting the service stations to install DC chargers is a smarter idea, they can get away with not making much money from the electricity since they're making huge profits from the coffee and snacks that EV drivers are buying.


Creating a grants system tailored by location type would be the best approach IMHO. For example if a service station installs a bunch of 22kW chargers then no grant money, since that's an unsuitable charger for that location. It would also make it much easier to create and enforce standards like:


Service stations:
Min 150kW
Min 4 stations
Redundant comms
Credit/Debit card payment available
On site staff trained to reset/debug chargers


Supermarkets:
Min 50kW
Min 2 stations
Credit/Debit card payment available


Shopping centers/Paid Car parks

11kW AC or 50kW DC
Lots of stations


On street parking:
7kW AC
Lots of stations
Preferred rates for permit holders

All nice but not going to happen in Ireland until the manufacturers stop producing ICE's lol then we'll still be years behind.

having said that I really do thing that until infrastructure improves worldwide and charge times improve that a small generator like the i3 Rex is a really great idea and remove the need completely for mega battery size + infrastructure. Generate the electricity on the fly.....

Yeah I know bla bla it burns petrol, weighs about 200 Kg but it's bloody convenient when I want and need it and a real shame they removed it from the 120 Ah.

the_amazing_raisin

Deleted User wrote: »

All nice but not going to happen in Ireland until the manufacturers stop producing ICE's lol then we'll still be years behind.

having said that I really do thing that until infrastructure improves worldwide and charge times improve that a small generator like the i3 Rex is a really great idea and remove the need completely for mega battery size + infrastructure. Generate the electricity on the fly.....

Yeah I know bla bla it burns petrol, weighs about 200 Kg but it's bloody convenient when I want and need it and a real shame they removed it from the 120 Ah.

Yeah there's a place for range extenders but I think it's disappearing in the next few years. It's be cool if they'd allow you to swap out the Rex module for a bigger battery, so as the charging infrstructure improves you'd be able to go full EV.


You could even keep the Rex as a generator

cruisey1987

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Yeah there's a place for range extenders but I think it's disappearing in the next few years. It's be cool if they'd allow you to swap out the Rex module for a bigger battery, so as the charging infrstructure improves you'd be able to go full EV.


You could even keep the Rex as a generator

I would miss the Rex but considering the amount of extra kms I'll now be doing working 4 weeks a year instead of 2 in total ( I used to work shift so worked a full month in the 2 weeks ) I'm half thinking that I'll be driving her Outlander a lot more anyway on long trips just to keep the miles off the i3. I know a newer EV with more range, even the 120 Ah i3 would help but the infrastructure is so bad that I don't think I'd take even a 64 Kwh Kia or Hyundai on long trips, I know others will do it because they have no choice but I am not bothered with it again, the Rex has given me unbelievable freedom from all the madness revolved around charging/chargers that I'm not sure I could go back to all that sh1t, it's just not for me and she'll never put up with it on a long trip, the anxiety, will we make it, will the charger be in use, a queue, charger broken, Kids going mad int he back, her blood pressure rising, my patients with her thinning, plan B etc ? bollocks to that.

So If I do go back to EV only I think I'll just go back to the days of the Leaf and just take the Diesel for the easier less stressful life.

But, Generator would be a nice option for all electrics until that magic day comes, if ever that the infrastructure is good enough and by then who knows the Rex might be a fuel cell.

McGiver

cruisey1987 wrote: »

From what I keep hearing, it's the lack of infrastructure which keeps people worried about running out of charge.

Firstly, outside of the Pale, the real Ireland is largely a rural country and your average buyer is quite conservative, would be my point of view. That would be primary reason rather than range anxiety caused by lack of infrastructure.

Secondly, there is serious ICE/fossil lobby and media campaign on top which works in tandem with the above.

And thirdly, Irish gov has poor track record of building infrastructure of any kind as well as poor track record of regulating/legislating of/for the same.

Kramer

Almost everyone I've ever encountered, asking about my EVs, ask about range.
That's the first question - "how far can you drive it?".

Subsequent questions would pertain to its ability to "tow a box", "drive my ESB bill through the roof", "need a new battery after a few years" etc.

Non BEV owners ubiquitously have no idea about charging infrastructure, the fact it charges on my driveway every night & costs next to nothing to run.

Eamon Ryan will change all that though - I hear he's proposing a bottle return scheme to start in 2022 & ban the sale of multipack food items in 2025 .

Irishjg

I thought he was still ahaboo boo in his chair at the convention center.

the_amazing_raisin

Kramer wrote: »

Almost everyone I've ever encountered, asking about my EVs, ask about range.
That's the first question - "how far can you drive it?".

Subsequent questions would pertain to its ability to "tow a box", "drive my ESB bill through the roof", "need a new battery after a few years" etc.

Non BEV owners ubiquitously have no idea about charging infrastructure, the fact it charges on my driveway every night & costs next to nothing to run.

Eamon Ryan will change all that though - I hear he's proposing a bottle return scheme to start in 2022 & ban the sale of multipack food items in 2025 .

Yeah the South Dublin environmentalists are hard at work

To be fair, he's got no money now to do anything since they've spent it all on covid and eroded the tax base to the point where the public finances are a complete shambles

graememk

Kramer wrote: »

Almost everyone I've ever encountered, asking about my EVs, ask about range.
That's the first question - "how far can you drive it?".

Subsequent questions would pertain to its ability to "tow a box", "drive my ESB bill through the roof", "need a new battery after a few years" etc.

I wasnt present for this conversation, but the question was along the lines of


"So how often do you have to put petrol/diesel in it"

Mrs : "Its full electric, its charged it at home"

dont know how the rest of the conversation went

Kramer

Kramer wrote: »

A
Eamon Ryan will change all that though - I hear he's proposing a bottle return scheme to start in 2022 & ban the sale of multipack food items in 2025 .

The bottle return scheme is actually the first and only sensible thing I've heard come out of Eamon Ryan's mouth ever.

This works great in Germany.

Kramer

Deleted User wrote: »

The bottle return scheme is actually the first and only sensible thing I've heard come out of Eamon Ryan's mouth ever.

This works great in Germany.

Agreed.

The only thing is we had a bottle return scheme previously :eek:.
I'm not that old but remember there was a 5p charge on glass bottles & the bottles themselves had "bottle return" or "bottle deposit" or similar, actually moulded into them.

That was probably 4 decades ago :eek:.

But Eamon will have it sorted in 2022, to coincide with with the national broadband network rollout & completion of the national children's' hospital .

Or, he'll probably just tax the bejasus outta stuff or ban stuff instead - easier all around :rolleyes:.

Kramer

graememk wrote: »

"So how often do you have to put petrol/diesel in it"

Mrs : "Its full electric, its charged it at home"

You missed a trick - she should have got one of them self charging Toyota electric cars, she'd never have to plug it in then,

Maybe that's why ECars are procrastinating - Toyota have told them there's no need for chargers - new cars won't need them - they'll charge themselves!

Should someone tell Eamon I wonder?

.

the_amazing_raisin

graememk wrote: »

I wasnt present for this conversation, but the question was along the lines of


"So how often do you have to put petrol/diesel in it"

Mrs : "Its full electric, its charged it at home"

dont know how the rest of the conversation went

That reminds me of a conversation I had with my neighbour a couple of weeks ago. He was cleaning the 4 chrome exhausts on his Audi sporty model

Neighbour: Bit of advice, never try to clean the exhaust on your car

Me: I don't have an exhaust on my car

Neighbour: Oh yeah...

Needless to say, I was very chuffed with myself after that response

charlieIRL

The amount of people who still think the battery will only last the 8 years of the warranty is scary. Good few people have said it to me.

the_amazing_raisin

charlieIRL wrote: »

The amount of people who still think the battery will only last the 8 years of the warranty is scary. Good few people have said it to me.

I feel like someone should point out that the engine in a petrol car is generally only under warranty for 3 years, and they generally don't break as soon as the warranty ends

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

I've seen ionity charge bays ICED loads of times in Kill North. It's a pity they don't put the EV chargers up with the Petrol/Diesel pumps so at least People have shelter from the p1ssing rain, why should EV owners not have the same luxury ?

There should be more EV charge points than Petrol pumps at each new garage.

Probably because Ionity is not really used since Maingau ended and we're stuck with exorbitant rates

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

Probably because Ionity is not really used since Maingau ended and we're stuck with exorbitant rates

Ah come on, the rates are not that bad if you don't use them every day ?

I was at Kilcullen service station on the M9 again Friday getting a Camile and saw a zoe plugging into the 150 kw, there was I hoping for a free charge, nope. 50 Kw was not in use. I'd be pretty p1ssed though if I had a car that could charge faster and it's taken up with these 50 Kw and under cars. But hopefully a higher Kwh price will ensure it's free for those that need it and hopefully the ESB might educate people more on these chargers.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah come on, the rates are not that bad if you don't use them every day ?

It's actually more expensive to "fill" my EV at Ionity than to fill a nice petrol saloon


I won't use them once my nefarious ways around not paying are discovered.

Deleted User wrote: »

I was at Kilcullen service station on the M9 again Friday getting a Camile and saw a zoe plugging into the 150 kw, there was I hoping for a free charge, nope. 50 Kw was not in use. I'd be pretty p1ssed though if I had a car that could charge faster and it's taken up with these 50 Kw and under cars. But hopefully a higher Kwh price will ensure it's free for those that need it and hopefully the ESB might educate people more on these chargers.

The 150kW wont be free for long, this is a shortlived issue. Expect them to be about 1.1X-1.3X the price of the 50kW

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

It's actually more expensive to "fill" my EV at Ionity than to fill a nice petrol saloon


I won't use them once my nefarious ways around not paying are discovered.

Seriously, you'd complain about having to pay 79 cent per Kwh for the ouple of times you might need it when you get it for much less on night rate at home for most of your charging needs ?

I'd gladly pay this for the odd time I need the chargers if they are available I will gladly pay than risk paying 29 cent per Kwh at an ESB charger with a much greater risk of having to queue.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

Seriously, you'd complain about having to pay 79 cent per Kwh for the ouple of times you might need it when you get it for much less on night rate at home for most of your charging needs ?

I'd gladly pay this for the odd time I need the chargers if they are available I will gladly pay than risk paying 29 cent per Kwh at an ESB charger with a much greater risk of having to queue.

Yes, and I will not pay 79c
If I have to pay 60 quid to fill up my Tesla I'm going back to luxobarges

McGiver

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah come on, the rates are not that bad if you don't use them every day ?

They are cleverly designed for VW, Skoda, Audi etc to give reasonable Ionity rates for owners of their newly sold cars but to hammer everyone else.

Somewhat like Tesla just a bit more open, they don't ban you completely from the network but just charge you fortune. Which is better than banning everyone completely, who needs the charge will pay eventually.

liamog

McGiver wrote: »

They are cleverly designed for VW, Skoda, Audi etc to give reasonable Ionity rates for owners of their newly sold cars but to hammer everyone else.

Somewhat like Tesla just a bit more open, they don't ban you completely from the network but just charge you fortune. Which is better than banning everyone complete, who needs the charge will pay eventually.

I just wish they were a bit more equitable and would open up memberships for existing EV owners, would be nice for e-Golf and I3 owners to be given access to Ionity too.

slave1

Deleted User wrote: »

I was at Kilcullen service station on the M9 again Friday getting a Camile and saw a zoe plugging into the 150 kw, there was I hoping for a free charge, nope. 50 Kw was not in use. I'd be pretty p1ssed though if I had a car that could charge faster and it's taken up with these 50 Kw and under cars. But hopefully a higher Kwh price will ensure it's free for those that need it and hopefully the ESB might educate people more on these chargers.

What does the Zoe use to hook up to the high power units?

AndyBoBandy

slave1 wrote: »

What does the Zoe use to hook up to the high power units?

The new ones are CCS aren't they?

slave1

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

The new ones are CCS aren't they?

Not too sure, I know the older ones are Type 2, I was just thinking that if it was occupying the Type 2 then the Mad could have hooked up to the CCS